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RC_Matt
Guest
LOL, ya think?
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ANIB
Guest
The best lesson I learned from attending Catholic schooling my entire childhood, was that there are admirable aspects in every religion.
Attacking other religions or responding to improperly researched arguments against the Catholic faith is not the way to show others what Catholicism really is. Now living in a Southern-Baptist world, and being attacked on my religion on a weekly basis, has taught me many lessons in discussing on and with other religions.
“In the matter of religion, people eagerly fasten their eyes on the difference between their own creed and yours; whilst the charm of the study is in finding the agreements and identities in all the religions of humanity.” – RWE
It is natural to think that your religion is the right religion, if you did not, you would be what religion you thought was right, but attacking a person’s faith without trying to understand it or learn from it only makes people closed off to your ideas. A person does not make credible arguments if done so with anger in their voice or writings- it is the principal rule of all forms of debate. When discussing religion, faith, politics, or anything at all, keeping your cool is the best method. Others will never learn about your religion if they are busy being playing defense.
The way to show people what Catholicism is about, why it is so good, is to always “be your best,” as my priest would say. It not only makes you a better person, more Christ-like, but also attracts others to your faith. Lost or searching souls look for a community or individual that they want to participate in or be like. They look for healthy, happy, intelligent, confident, encouraging, open-minded and level-headed people who know who they are, what they stand for, and have it together.
These reasons and more are why Mormonism is so attractive to other people. They discuss religion without getting angry, they are upstanding members in their community and are inviting to the people they meet, and (key!) to the people they already know.
In another forum on Mormonism, a woman was having difficulty separating herself from the attractiveness of the Mormon faith because she enjoyed and admired their welcoming attitudes and general character. The Catholic Church she attended was not inviting, they were not hospitable to one another- good people I am sure, but busy with their own day to day lives. It is a common trend I have noticed among practicers of the Catholic faith.
As a Catholic I was not offended by or judgmental of the woman’s attraction to Mormonism. After doing her research, discussing Mormonism with people both inside and outside the faith, she realized the appeal was not their religion, but their people; the appeal turned into a learning experience and admiration for and respect for Mormonism while still keeping holding true to her beliefs.
My problem was with the advice others gave her. Their advice to her was to “detach” herself from the community and stay faithful to the church regardless of its flaws. Over and over again, I read the same responses. Few messages with judgmental undertones, most responders could relate to her admiring the openness of other religion’s welcoming attitudes. Most people in the Catholic churches sited they did not feel that same welcoming attitude in their own church and offered many remedies. None, though, suggested that she herself reach out, that she start or mimic the open and welcoming attitude (that they all admired so much in other religions) in her own church, amongst the members of her own church. Change needs to start from within, and who better to initiate change than the person who wants it or craves it. One person can make a difference; one person can inspire and motivate others to do as they do (I can think of atleast one that did
.
Catholics: We give to the community, lend a helping hand when asked or needed, but how often do we reach out to the person in the next pew (sp?) over? How often do we make an effort to get to know or ask a Catholic Church member or outsider/neighbor out for a friendly (religion-talk-free) dinner or coffee? I am no exception to this, but I do make it a point to be open to talking about other religions and to learning from other religions. It is the best way to grow, a reason, I am sure, why so many Catholic schools and vocational/seminary schools study other religions.
Catholics (this goes for other religions as well) and the people who defend Catholics who attack, rather than discuss, other religions are only hurting the expansion or image of the Catholic faith. We need to lead by example and by reaching out, not by attacking.
Attacking other religions or responding to improperly researched arguments against the Catholic faith is not the way to show others what Catholicism really is. Now living in a Southern-Baptist world, and being attacked on my religion on a weekly basis, has taught me many lessons in discussing on and with other religions.
“In the matter of religion, people eagerly fasten their eyes on the difference between their own creed and yours; whilst the charm of the study is in finding the agreements and identities in all the religions of humanity.” – RWE
It is natural to think that your religion is the right religion, if you did not, you would be what religion you thought was right, but attacking a person’s faith without trying to understand it or learn from it only makes people closed off to your ideas. A person does not make credible arguments if done so with anger in their voice or writings- it is the principal rule of all forms of debate. When discussing religion, faith, politics, or anything at all, keeping your cool is the best method. Others will never learn about your religion if they are busy being playing defense.
The way to show people what Catholicism is about, why it is so good, is to always “be your best,” as my priest would say. It not only makes you a better person, more Christ-like, but also attracts others to your faith. Lost or searching souls look for a community or individual that they want to participate in or be like. They look for healthy, happy, intelligent, confident, encouraging, open-minded and level-headed people who know who they are, what they stand for, and have it together.
These reasons and more are why Mormonism is so attractive to other people. They discuss religion without getting angry, they are upstanding members in their community and are inviting to the people they meet, and (key!) to the people they already know.
In another forum on Mormonism, a woman was having difficulty separating herself from the attractiveness of the Mormon faith because she enjoyed and admired their welcoming attitudes and general character. The Catholic Church she attended was not inviting, they were not hospitable to one another- good people I am sure, but busy with their own day to day lives. It is a common trend I have noticed among practicers of the Catholic faith.
As a Catholic I was not offended by or judgmental of the woman’s attraction to Mormonism. After doing her research, discussing Mormonism with people both inside and outside the faith, she realized the appeal was not their religion, but their people; the appeal turned into a learning experience and admiration for and respect for Mormonism while still keeping holding true to her beliefs.
My problem was with the advice others gave her. Their advice to her was to “detach” herself from the community and stay faithful to the church regardless of its flaws. Over and over again, I read the same responses. Few messages with judgmental undertones, most responders could relate to her admiring the openness of other religion’s welcoming attitudes. Most people in the Catholic churches sited they did not feel that same welcoming attitude in their own church and offered many remedies. None, though, suggested that she herself reach out, that she start or mimic the open and welcoming attitude (that they all admired so much in other religions) in her own church, amongst the members of her own church. Change needs to start from within, and who better to initiate change than the person who wants it or craves it. One person can make a difference; one person can inspire and motivate others to do as they do (I can think of atleast one that did
.Catholics: We give to the community, lend a helping hand when asked or needed, but how often do we reach out to the person in the next pew (sp?) over? How often do we make an effort to get to know or ask a Catholic Church member or outsider/neighbor out for a friendly (religion-talk-free) dinner or coffee? I am no exception to this, but I do make it a point to be open to talking about other religions and to learning from other religions. It is the best way to grow, a reason, I am sure, why so many Catholic schools and vocational/seminary schools study other religions.
Catholics (this goes for other religions as well) and the people who defend Catholics who attack, rather than discuss, other religions are only hurting the expansion or image of the Catholic faith. We need to lead by example and by reaching out, not by attacking.
- ANIB, *“My country is the world, and my religion is to do good.” *-RWE
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Rbt_Southwell
Guest
ANIB,
As a good Catholic you should love all people, not all religions.
Don’t read more into tolerance other than a willingness to understand WHAT some one else believes, not that it is EQUAL to yours. If you think wiccan or JW or mormonism is on par with Catholic Christianity, there are some serious problems you need to address.
Welcome to the Forums
Robert
As a good Catholic you should love all people, not all religions.
Don’t read more into tolerance other than a willingness to understand WHAT some one else believes, not that it is EQUAL to yours. If you think wiccan or JW or mormonism is on par with Catholic Christianity, there are some serious problems you need to address.
Welcome to the Forums
Robert
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ANIB
Guest
Robert!
I am sorry if I miscommunicated my beliefs, I did not intend to imply that I felt all religions were equal (I thought I cleared that up when saying that everyone, myself not excluded, believes our religion is right, that why we are what we are). I simply ment to imply that there are many characteristics, more spicifically related to the people within the religions, that are admirable and respectable and that as a good practicer of any faith, we should learn from. If I thought all religions were equal, I would have some difficulties defending and discussing my Catholic based belief system, ha ha.
I assure you my message was intended to be one of tolerance, and more. I think my problem is with using the word “tolerance,” because unlike you and I who believes tolerance is a willingness to understand (and can be learned from, respected and admired without being that religion or agreeing with its many principals - I don’t mean to attach your name to that part, please don’t feel I am), I feel many people today feel “tolerance” is “not hating” or “tolerance” is “not openly condeming another’s religion” and so on, rather than what it really is.
That and effectively discussing (not arguing or attacking) religions, even if they do it to you, is not a healthy way for a member of any religion to express their theology.
In reference to your last post, I guess you could proudly note yourself on being a person who expresses their opinion in a good and respectful manner. And I am glad there are people like you,
P.S. C’mon! I do love all people!
and I don’t see anything wrong with loving all religions, but I guess I could be more specific by saying that by that I mean the study of, discussion of, and people of all religions. I’ll be sure to change that so as not confuse any more forum attendees.
Thanks for welcoming me to the forum! Hope we meet again!
I am sorry if I miscommunicated my beliefs, I did not intend to imply that I felt all religions were equal (I thought I cleared that up when saying that everyone, myself not excluded, believes our religion is right, that why we are what we are). I simply ment to imply that there are many characteristics, more spicifically related to the people within the religions, that are admirable and respectable and that as a good practicer of any faith, we should learn from. If I thought all religions were equal, I would have some difficulties defending and discussing my Catholic based belief system, ha ha.
I assure you my message was intended to be one of tolerance, and more. I think my problem is with using the word “tolerance,” because unlike you and I who believes tolerance is a willingness to understand (and can be learned from, respected and admired without being that religion or agreeing with its many principals - I don’t mean to attach your name to that part, please don’t feel I am), I feel many people today feel “tolerance” is “not hating” or “tolerance” is “not openly condeming another’s religion” and so on, rather than what it really is.
That and effectively discussing (not arguing or attacking) religions, even if they do it to you, is not a healthy way for a member of any religion to express their theology.
In reference to your last post, I guess you could proudly note yourself on being a person who expresses their opinion in a good and respectful manner. And I am glad there are people like you,
P.S. C’mon! I do love all people!
and I don’t see anything wrong with loving all religions, but I guess I could be more specific by saying that by that I mean the study of, discussion of, and people of all religions. I’ll be sure to change that so as not confuse any more forum attendees.Thanks for welcoming me to the forum! Hope we meet again!
- ANIB,* My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." -RWE*
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saayra
Guest
Catholic Answers is a bit late in wanting to inform us about Mormonism. The information has been out there for a long time. I was saved from Mormonism about 30 years ago by a small red paperback book that beckoned to me from the window of a Christian bookstore. The title was “Is Mormonism Christian?” It’s probably still around. It was very thorough. The most deceptive thing about the LDS is that they use the same terms that we do. However the definitions are radically different. You’ll find that they use the word Trinity, but just ask them to tell you who they think Jesus is.
I had a friend who was Mormon and she was very admirable. She ran a food co-op from her garage. She didn’t smoke or drink. I had even gone to Relief Society with her. Everything about her family was positive. Her husband and another church member came to our house and showed us a movie in which the concept that “you existed before you were born” was repeated several times.
Someone gave me the Book of Mormon and I just couldn’t get very far past the introduction which contained the story of Joseph Smith and how he came across the angel Moroni and the “tablets”. My new book explained that there were a number of men, I think about eight, who testified that they had seen the tablets the Joseph Smith translated. Later on, most of them retracted their statements. That assured me that the uneasiness I was experiencing about Joseph having an over productive imagination was well founded.
While we can admire a lot about the way Mormons live their lives, we cannot call them Christian. It’s simple. They don’t believe that Jesus Christ is who he says.
I had a friend who was Mormon and she was very admirable. She ran a food co-op from her garage. She didn’t smoke or drink. I had even gone to Relief Society with her. Everything about her family was positive. Her husband and another church member came to our house and showed us a movie in which the concept that “you existed before you were born” was repeated several times.
Someone gave me the Book of Mormon and I just couldn’t get very far past the introduction which contained the story of Joseph Smith and how he came across the angel Moroni and the “tablets”. My new book explained that there were a number of men, I think about eight, who testified that they had seen the tablets the Joseph Smith translated. Later on, most of them retracted their statements. That assured me that the uneasiness I was experiencing about Joseph having an over productive imagination was well founded.
While we can admire a lot about the way Mormons live their lives, we cannot call them Christian. It’s simple. They don’t believe that Jesus Christ is who he says.
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Pa_Pa
Guest
I still see an undercurrent here that he got what he deserved. Just like those pesky Jews during the Spanish inquisition. I guess they contributed to their own deaths too. More people have been killed under the banner of Religious intolerance than any other banner.
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RC_Matt
Guest
Like Mountain Meadows?
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Pa_Pa
Guest
That was the act of revenge of a few nutcases, not Church policy as in the Inquisitions, Crusades, etc. Nice try though.
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majick275
Guest
ah yes another uninformed person making unfounded allegations without bothering to even browse a history book. (for the record Jews are not “pesky” nor did they “get what they deserved” except when God gave it to them as recorded in the Bible) here is a link to wiki on the spanish inquisition. it’s the easiest way to start researching the subject but as it is wiki you should read with a critical eye and follow up with more definitive sources.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition
the important things to remember are that this inquisition was started by the spanish government not the church and that it’s authority was only over baptized christians. the “jews” you are referring to would be converts who were suspected of not really converting. and even then THEY DID NOT GET WHAT THEY DESERVED!
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Jerusha
Guest
Based on my analysis of what happened, if he had been brought to trial, the abuses within the Mormon community would have been exposed, and many other people would have gone to prison or been executed. The non-Mormons in the area had no hope of getting justice for what was going on because of Mormon opposition to such a trial (that includes the issue of inability of local Native people to get justice for crimes committed against them). JS did not deserve what he got, but they felt they had no choice. And that is why they were acquitted.
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tehorangeguy
Guest
Says the pot to the kettleBut not quite as low as the intelligence level of those who believe this clap-trap.
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hosemonkey
Guest
Do YOU believe all that clap-trap?
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mlchance
Guest
Mao and Stalin would beg to differ. Some of their other socialist buddies, like Hitler and Pol Pot, would pipe up too.
– Mark L. Chance.
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tehorangeguy
Guest
No, I just find it hilarious that someone who believes the Catholic Church to still be God’s church is ridiculing somebody else’s beliefs.
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hosemonkey
Guest
Why do you not believe that the Catholic Church is not God’s Church? Are you merely a protestant or do you have some other reason?
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tehorangeguy
Guest
I think history alone is enough to show that the Catholic Church is nothing other than a manmade organization. For instance, at one time there were multiple popes, all competing with each other for power. Or, popes having their illegitimate children promoted through the ranks of the priesthood. Not to mention things like the Crusades or the Inquisition, which are orders of magnitude worse.
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hosemonkey
Guest
You are obviously confusing the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself with the fallible humans charged with running His Church. We are above all, fallible. The Holy Father himself is fallible, except when he speaks ex-cathreda( from the Chair of Peter, on faith or morals, with the intention of teaching the whole Church)The Crusades were responses to moslem tyranny, errors were committed, as they are in all wars. The purpose was noble, the execution flawed. Your knowledge of the Inquisition is most likely flawed, do some research into the real story of the various Inquisitions. Use secular sources, not anti-Catholic fundie sources. You may be surprised at what you will learn. The Catholic Church IS the Church founded by Jesus Christ Himself, we humans sometimes do not do well at running it, but we are perfected by Christ’s Church.
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tehorangeguy
Guest
So the fact that the pope is the representative of Christ on earth just kind of gets thrown aside. I think I see how it works now.
EDIT: I did use secular sources by the way.
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hosemonkey
Guest
I explained to you that the Holy Father is infallible in matters of faith and morals only. This is Catholic doctrine. Is he expected to be able to predict the weather or name the winner of the World Series? No. He has been entrusted with the guidance of Christ’s Church, not to be all-knowing or all-seeing. You have an anti-Catholic bias, if you wish to learn, fine. If you wish to bash, that’s fine too.
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tehorangeguy
Guest
Edit: Misunderstanding on my part
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