Anti-Semitism and Traditional Catholicism

[jam070406]

The Nazi’s believed that Jews were subhuman fit only for slaughter.

The Nazi’s burned Jewish books.

The Nazi’s made Jews live in ghettos, forcibly removing them from their homes, made areas “Jew free” and confiscated and stole Jewish property.

The Nazi’s had blood purity laws that deemed you a Jew even if say only one grandparent had been Jewish.

The Nazi’s made Jews wear special clothing marking them as Jews.

The Nazi’s passed laws that denied Jews basic civil and legal rights, including the right to freely engage in occupations and professions and the right to education.

The Nazi’s passed laws that cut off Jews from any social interaction with non Jews.

The Nazi’s viewed Jews as a detrimental force to society.

Who could even come up with such ideas?

Wow! You just compared the Church to Nazis.

And tell me, do Jews not view gentiles as inferior?

Are we, the goyim, not here to serve the “chosen people”?

 

[sw85]

Our Israelitish Brethren
By James Parton
OCTOBER 1870 ATLANTIC MAGAZINE (excerpt concerning Jews of Rome under Papal State rule)

snip

What do these have to do with ghettos?

The Nazi’s believed that Jews were subhuman fit only for slaughter.

The Nazi’s burned Jewish books.

The Nazi’s made Jews live in ghettos, forcibly removing them from their homes, made areas “Jew free” and confiscated and stole Jewish property.

The Nazi’s had blood purity laws that deemed you a Jew even if say only one grandparent had been Jewish.

The Nazi’s made Jews wear special clothing marking them as Jews.

The Nazi’s passed laws that denied Jews basic civil and legal rights, including the right to freely engage in occupations and professions and the right to education.

The Nazi’s passed laws that cut off Jews from any social interaction with non Jews.

The Nazi’s viewed Jews as a detrimental force to society.

Who could even come up with such ideas?

What are you even talking about?

 

[chosen_people]

The writers of the Talmud. They seem to have invented the distinction between humans and subhumans.

Those distinctions do not exist in the volumes of the Talmud in my library or in Judaism. Judaism teaches the equality of all men, that we are all God’s children and that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the world to come as they have only to follow the seven Noahide commandments.

Part of the anti-Semitic works against the Jews include the spurious claims you made and were involved in the ordering of the burning of the Talmud.

If you like to understand what is written in the Talmud please see the following link:
talmud.faithweb.com/

 

[HelenRose]

The Nazi’s believed that Jews were subhuman fit only for slaughter.

The Nazi’s burned Jewish books.

The Nazi’s made Jews live in ghettos, forcibly removing them from their homes, made areas “Jew free” and confiscated and stole Jewish property.

The Nazi’s had blood purity laws that deemed you a Jew even if say only one grandparent had been Jewish.

The Nazi’s made Jews wear special clothing marking them as Jews.

The Nazi’s passed laws that denied Jews basic civil and legal rights, including the right to freely engage in occupations and professions and the right to education.

The Nazi’s passed laws that cut off Jews from any social interaction with non Jews.

The Nazi’s viewed Jews as a detrimental force to society.

Who could even come up with such ideas?

It’s hard to ascertain exactly, but of the six million Polish people that died in the Holocaust, 3 million were Jews and 3 million were Catholics. 50 000 Catholic priests and religious also. See Related Links below this answer.

Read more: wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Catholics_were_killed_in_the_Holocaust#ixzz20z16vMk0

 

[chosen_people]

Wow! You just compared the Church to Nazis.

And tell me, do Jews not view gentiles as inferior?

Are we, the goyim, not here to serve the “chosen people”?

There are no Jewish sources to that effect. However, there are a number of anti-Semitic Christian sources claiming that to be what Jews believe.

In no way can the Catholic Church be compared to the Nazi’s who implemented and carried a plan of the systematic extermination of the Jews.

The position of the Catholic Church is that Nazi anti-Semitism was based on racial anti-Semitism as opposed to religious Christian anti-Semitism and therefore no connection can be made between past actions of the Church and the Shoah.

 

[chosen_people]

What do these have to do with ghettos?

What are you even talking about?

The article was written in 1870 and describes the condition of the Jews in Rome under the Papal state. As such it also includes the matter of the Rome ghetto and the condition there.

 

[jam070406]

Those distinctions do not exist in the volumes of the Talmud in my library or in Judaism. Judaism teaches the equality of all men, that we are all God’s children and that it is easier for the Gentile than for the Jew to get into the world to come as they have only to follow the seven Noahide commandments.

Part of the anti-Semitic works against the Jews include the spurious claims you made and were involved in the ordering of the burning of the Talmud.

If you like to understand what is written in the Talmud please see the following link:
talmud.faithweb.com/

And we wonder why the Church wanted to burn the Talmud? The first Pope that heard about this when it was presented by a converted Rabbi was shocked.

• If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
• “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a) * “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
• What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
• “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
• “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)
• “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.”
  (Abodah Zarah 36b)
  *The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
• “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
• “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)
• “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)
• “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)
  *'Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a) ’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]
• Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)
• “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)
• “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only) * “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)
• “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

 

[jam070406]

There are no Jewish sources to that effect. However, there are a number of anti-Semitic Christian sources claiming that to be what Jews believe.

In no way can the Catholic Church be compared to the Nazi’s who implemented and carried a plan of the systematic extermination of the Jews.

The position of the Catholic Church is that Nazi anti-Semitism was based on racial anti-Semitism as opposed to religious Christian anti-Semitism and therefore no connection can be made between past actions of the Church and the Shoah.

Out of charity I will not post the vulgar and offensive Israeli TV show that mocks our Savior or the video of Israeli youth that say they “spit on your Jesus” and other obscenities.

 

[chosen_people]

It’s hard to ascertain exactly, but of the six million Polish people that died in the Holocaust, 3 million were Jews and 3 million were Catholics. 50 000 Catholic priests and religious also. See Related Links below this answer.

Read more: wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_Catholics_were_killed_in_the_Holocaust#ixzz20z16vMk0

Millions of people dying does not entail a Shoah, a planned systematic extermination, a genocide, as was carried out against the Jewish people. Except for those Righteous Gentiles who gave their lives in trying to save Jews, no Catholics died in the Shoah. Millions however died in WWII.

If you wish to connect the genocide against the Jews as also being carried out against Polish Catholics, what do we do with classifying Jedwabne or Kielce?

 

[chosen_people]

And we wonder why the Church wanted to burn the Talmud? The first Pope that heard about this when it was presented by a converted Rabbi was shocked.

• If a ‘goy’ (Gentile) hits a Jew he must be killed.” (Sanhedrin 58b)
• “If a Jew finds an object lost by a ‘goy’ it does not have to be returned.” (Baba Mezia 24a) * “If a Jew murders a ‘goy’ there will be no death penalty.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
• What a Jew steals from a ‘goy’ he may keep.” (Sanhedrin 57a)
• “Jews may use subterfuges to circumvent a ‘goy.’” (Baba Kamma 113a)
• “All children of the ‘goyim’ (Gentiles) are animals.” (Yebamoth 98a)
• “Girls born of the ‘goyim’ are in a state of ‘niddah’ (menstrual uncleanness!) from birth.”
  (Abodah Zarah 36b)
  *The ‘goyim’ are not humans. They are beasts.” (Baba Mezia 114b)
• “If you eat with a ‘goy’ it is the same as eating with a dog.” (Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b)
• “Even the best of the ‘goyim’ should all be killed.” (Soferim 15)
• “Sexual intercourse between the ‘goyim’ is like intercourse between animals.” (Sanhedrin 74b)
• “When it comes to a Gentile in peace times, one may harm him indirectly, for instance, by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice.” (Shulkan Arukh, Yoreh De ‘ah, 158, Hebrew Edition only)
  *'Yashu’ (derogatory for ‘Jesus’) is in Hell being boiled in hot excrement.” (Gittin 57a) ’Yashu’ is an acronym for the Jewish curse, ‘May his (Jesus) name be wiped out forevermore.’]
• Yashu (Jesus) was sexually immoral and worshipped a brick.” (Sanhedrin 107b)
• “Yashu (Jesus) was cut off from the Jewish people for his wickedness and refused to repent.” (Sotah 47a)
• “Miriam the hairdresser had sex with many men.” (Shabbath 104b, Hebrew Edition only) * “She who was the descendant of princes and governors (the virgin Mary) played the harlot with carpenters.” (Sanhedrin 106a)
• “Christians who reject the Talmud will go to hell and be punished there for all generations.” (Rosh Hashanah 17a)

I gave you a website that explains that what you are posting, based on anti-Semitic works has no basis in fact. May be we should just go straight to discussing the “truth” behind The protocols of the Elder’s of Zion, or why no Jews were killed in 9/11, the "myth’ of the Holocaust, or the “genocide” of the Arab Palestinians (your choice).

 

[Boulder257]

Guys, this is turning nasty rather quickly and I doubt it’s proving to be fruitful at this point. Not even to mention it is completely devoid of any topic relating to Catholic Tradition. I think it may be time to let this topic go, if not for a short time, to at least allow tempers to cool down. Let’s not add to the fire that others before us started.

 

[jam070406]

It’s the catch 22 that you will NEVER get out of. Any source not Jewish, will be labeled antisemitic. The Jewish encylopedia labels St. Vincent Ferrer as antisemitic! The source for the Talmud I pulled was from a Jewish convert. That went to Hebrew school.

 

[PJM]

=russ rentler;9532434]I have been finding that some, not all, traditional Catholics seem to have negative views of Israel, the Jewish people, zionism etc. Some go so far as to downplay the holocaust and deny that gas chambers were ever employed against the Jews.
With anything else, there is a wide spectrum of traditional Catholicism from those who enjoy the TLM and the devotions of traditional Catholicism all the way to those in actual schism with the Church. I am perplexed that those who seem most devout do not seem moved by Pope Paul’s comments in Nostra Aetate.
How prevalent is anti-semitism in traditional Catholicism? Do I have a legitimate reason to be concerned? Has anyone else come across this? Thanks so much

I SUSPECT your mixing political views and relious understandings and positions.

They MUST be seperated.

I do not know of a single Catholic; * Traditional or ortherwise who from a religious perspective do not embrace Jews as our Brethern; and Abraham as OUR Faith Father.

God Bless /Shalom!

pat/PJM*

 

[jam070406]

I gave you a website that explains that what you are posting, based on anti-Semitic works has no basis in fact. May be we should just go straight to discussing the “truth” behind The protocols of the Elder’s of Zion, or why no Jews were killed in 9/11, the "myth’ of the Holocaust, or the “genocide” of the Arab Palestinians (your choice).

Ah, the old discredict by linking to conspiracy theory nuts trick.
Jewish sources label St. Vincent Ferrer as an antisemite. Sorry, not gonna play that game. I’m done here.

 

[RogerDeCourcy]

This thread is pure trolling.

Here’s the Truth:

The Messiah has come and He has conquered the World. Even devils are compelled under His name. Christianity has changed everything. He has influenced everyone, whether they know it or not. We’re just living in the aftershock. Remove Christianity from the world and you would set civilisation back a thousands years.

Watch, now, as paganism returns, as we spurn Christ, and with it comes all the old evils. Look the the clever idiots meddling with sorcery, for example.

Judaism makes a lot of noise for its size but the Catholic Church, as a body, has nothing to apologise for. Judaism is a competing religion, for goodness sake! In the end, we must go our own Way. We can invite others to follow, but if they won’t, walk on.

The time for creepy ‘dialoguing’ is over.

 

[chosen_people]

Germany acknowledges the Shoah, survivors are still alive and yet there are those that say it never happened.???

Poland issued a national apology for the Jebwabne massacre in 2001, yet we somehow don’t know who killed who.???

In March 2000, the Righteous Gentile Pope John Paul II apologized to the Jews in the name of the Church for 2000 years of violence, persecution and blunders, yet there is nothing to apologize for?

There was a fundamental change in the relationship between the Jews and the Catholic Church with Vatican II. That change is contingent on acknowledging that the persecution of the Jews was wrong and going on from there. The response that persecutions didn’t happen or were justified,prevents that from happening.

During the crusades between 1/4 - 1/2 of European Jewry were murdered by Catholic mobs crying “convert or die”. Just as no Jew seeks to blame Catholics today for what happened hundreds of years ago, no Jew wishes to hear a denial or a justification for such actions. The same is true for the Inquisition and the ghettos and the special clothing marking us as Jews and everything else involved in the persecution of Jews. I dream of the day that instead of posts about why what people say about the crusades and the Inquisition is “anti-Catholic propaganda”, why it was alright to forcibly remove the Mortara child from his loving family, to hearing why these things were wrong, a thing of the past and how we can further improve Jewish - Catholic relations in the future.

(off topic: reports coming in of terrorist attack against an Israeli tourist bus in Bulgaria)

 

[Credo_ergo_sum]

In March 2000, the Righteous Gentile Pope John Paul II apologized to the Jews in the name of the Church for 2000 years of violence, persecution and blunders, yet there is nothing to apologize for?

I wonder when the Jews are going to apologise for their persecution of Christians (The crucifiction of Christ included) and their treachery and lynchings of Christians (like for example during the Persian war of 601-628).

 

[chosen_people]

Germany acknowledges the Shoah, survivors are still alive and yet there are those that question whether it ever happened.???

Poland issued a national apology for the Jebwabne massacre in 2001, yet we somehow don’t know who killed who.???

In March 2000, the Righteous Gentile Pope John Paul II apologized to the Jews in the name of the Church for 2000 years of violence, persecution and blunders, yet there is nothing to apologize for?

There was a fundamental change in the relationship between the Jews and the Catholic Church with Vatican II. That change is contingent on acknowledging that the persecution of the Jews was wrong and going on from there. The response that persecutions didn’t happen or were justified,prevents that from happening.

During the crusades between 1/4 - 1/2 of European Jewry were murdered by Catholic mobs crying “convert or die”. Just as no Jew seeks to blame Catholics today for what happened hundreds of years ago, no Jew wishes to hear a denial or a justification for such actions. The same is true for the Inquisition and the ghettos and the special clothing marking us as Jews and everything else involved in the persecution of Jews. I dream of the day that instead of posts about why what people say about the crusades and the Inquisition is “anti-Catholic propaganda”, why it was alright to forcibly remove the Mortara child from his loving family, to hearing why these things were wrong, a thing of the past and how we can further improve Jewish - Catholic relations in the future.

(off topic: reports coming in of terrorist attack against an Israeli tourist bus in Bulgaria)

 

[jam070406]

Germany acknowledges the Shoah, survivors are still alive and yet there are those that say it never happened.???

Poland issued a national apology for the Jebwabne massacre in 2001, yet we somehow don’t know who killed who.???

In March 2000, the Righteous Gentile Pope John Paul II apologized to the Jews in the name of the Church for 2000 years of violence, persecution and blunders, yet there is nothing to apologize for?

There was a fundamental change in the relationship between the Jews and the Catholic Church with Vatican II. That change is contingent on acknowledging that the persecution of the Jews was wrong and going on from there. The response that persecutions didn’t happen or were justified,prevents that from happening.

During the crusades between 1/4 - 1/2 of European Jewry were murdered by Catholic mobs crying “convert or die”. Just as no Jew seeks to blame Catholics today for what happened hundreds of years ago, no Jew wishes to hear a denial or a justification for such actions. The same is true for the Inquisition and the ghettos and the special clothing marking us as Jews and everything else involved in the persecution of Jews. I dream of the day that instead of posts about why what people say about the crusades and the Inquisition is “anti-Catholic propaganda”, why it was alright to forcibly remove the Mortara child from his loving family, to hearing why these things were wrong, a thing of the past and how we can further improve Jewish - Catholic relations in the future.

(off topic: reports coming in of terrorist attack against an Israeli tourist bus in Bulgaria)

Will Jewry apologize for the Jews involved in the genocide of 6 million Ukrainians that were starved to death?

 

[jam070406]

Pot meet kettle.

haaretz.com/news/orthodox-jewish-youths-burn-new-testaments-in-or-yehuda-1.246153