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Rubee
Guest
Don’t forget YouTube
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LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
Many good people subscribe to the original principle of “Black Lives Matter” without belonging to any organization or the website “blacklivesmatter.com” which is not the sole spokesman for all who support the principle. This is a case of attacking a good principle because of some bad actors who wear that label.
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Rubee
Guest
I’ve never even read that website, but I have always supported “Black lives matter” because it’s a self-explanatory statement. I’m sure most people in the world read it the same way I do.
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jccm_444
Guest
Is there an official stance on the Church in the #BlackLivesMatter? I have been doing a lot of reading on all sides in the last week and will continue to do so, outside of the mainstream news on my own, to include books on various activists and I am finding I have many questions. I read the Pope addressing and rightly condemning racism. Also, I read about an El Paso bishop Mark Seitz kneeling with the Black Lives Matter activism, and a call from the Pope himself to the bishop praising him in support. And this is where I begin to need more answers on the Church’s stance on this particular #movement.
I am confused at what is currently happening and what direction I personally will take as I am educating myself on all issues and reading, on exactly what cultural shifts are happening and why. I’d like to ask for clarity on the Church’s stance on the #BlackLivesMatter, currently on two specific points (and I will have more as I continue forward in my readings), but the two currently I’d like to address are as follows:
As I read the 13 principles of the movement on their website, I would like to point out these statements in regards to pro-reproductive justice and the family within the campaign on its website:
“We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe, and able to thrive. We deserve and thus we demand particpatory democracy that encompasess political, econonmic, cultural, spiritual, and sexual self-determination.”
And also this:
“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”
When I read these statements from the movement, I call to question is supporting the movement also supporting the tenets of this particular organization, and then if the Church supports the holding of signs in the movement with this particular saying #BlackLivesMatter, than does this support the Pro-Reproductive Justice and then thereby negate the Pro Life stance, and also does it then support the collective parenting principle over the Pope John Paul II’s Letter to Families. Do we redefine the family? Many questions and thoughts.
I am confused at what is currently happening and what direction I personally will take as I am educating myself on all issues and reading, on exactly what cultural shifts are happening and why. I’d like to ask for clarity on the Church’s stance on the #BlackLivesMatter, currently on two specific points (and I will have more as I continue forward in my readings), but the two currently I’d like to address are as follows:
As I read the 13 principles of the movement on their website, I would like to point out these statements in regards to pro-reproductive justice and the family within the campaign on its website:
“We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe, and able to thrive. We deserve and thus we demand particpatory democracy that encompasess political, econonmic, cultural, spiritual, and sexual self-determination.”
And also this:
“We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.”
When I read these statements from the movement, I call to question is supporting the movement also supporting the tenets of this particular organization, and then if the Church supports the holding of signs in the movement with this particular saying #BlackLivesMatter, than does this support the Pro-Reproductive Justice and then thereby negate the Pro Life stance, and also does it then support the collective parenting principle over the Pope John Paul II’s Letter to Families. Do we redefine the family? Many questions and thoughts.
LeafByNiggle
Well-known member
I doubt the Church will ever take an official position on a specific organization or website or twitter channel or Facebook page having to do with Black Lives Matter… What they will do, I think, is agree with the basic principle that black lives matter (all lower case.)
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Peeps
Guest
What’s frustrating is that BLM does not actually come straight out and say, “We are in favor of legal abortion rights.”
Their statement is rather vague: “We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe, and able to thrive. We deserve and thus we demand particpatory democracy that encompasess political, econonmic, cultural, spiritual, and sexual self-determination.”
I’m guessing a lot of people, especially younger pro-life Christians, and black people who are caught up in the emotions of their laudable struggle for justice and equality, do not recognize the pro-choice rhetoric in that statement because it’s not clearly stated.
I agree that black lives do matter, as do all lives, and that in the U.S., the history of black people is one of constant struggle to survive and thrive because of continued racism of white people. Of course, the hundreds of years of legal slavery, in which black people were not even considered full human beings, was a crime against humanity, but when the slaves were legally freed, the crimes against them continued for another hundred years before the Civil Rights Act was signed into law.
But even then, the struggle for equality continued and still continues. I can’t blame black people for being fearful and watchful all the time–I’m pretty certain that every black family in the U.S. has had at least one family member within the last four generations, therefore within memory, who was lynched.
I’m also certain that every black family has had at least one family member, possibly more, who was subjected to a clear incident (not just imagined) of racism, and often this might have been the cause of a major loss (educational or job opportunity, membership in a church or community organization, housing opportunity, personal safety, etc.).
I tend to agree that Juneteenth should be given much more attention in this country. After all, if legal abortion were ended in this country, many Christians would celebrate the day and event every year! I think Juneteenth is something that all races can get together about, so it’s a good starting point. We had some wonderful celebrations in our city yesterday, even though they were smaller than usual because of the COVID-19 fears.
And I definitely support the teaching of history in the schools and in the entertainment media, as long as it is taught with correct scholarship, and as long as the events of the past are taught in the context of the times in which they took place. A man like Thomas Jefferson should be recognized for the good things that he accomplished even as we condemn the bad things that he did. We don’t throw out the whole man because of sin–with that criteria, we would all be “thrown out.”
Their statement is rather vague: “We deserve and thus we demand reproductive justice that gives us autonomy over our bodies and our identities while ensuring that our children and families are supported, safe, and able to thrive. We deserve and thus we demand particpatory democracy that encompasess political, econonmic, cultural, spiritual, and sexual self-determination.”
I’m guessing a lot of people, especially younger pro-life Christians, and black people who are caught up in the emotions of their laudable struggle for justice and equality, do not recognize the pro-choice rhetoric in that statement because it’s not clearly stated.
I agree that black lives do matter, as do all lives, and that in the U.S., the history of black people is one of constant struggle to survive and thrive because of continued racism of white people. Of course, the hundreds of years of legal slavery, in which black people were not even considered full human beings, was a crime against humanity, but when the slaves were legally freed, the crimes against them continued for another hundred years before the Civil Rights Act was signed into law.
But even then, the struggle for equality continued and still continues. I can’t blame black people for being fearful and watchful all the time–I’m pretty certain that every black family in the U.S. has had at least one family member within the last four generations, therefore within memory, who was lynched.
I’m also certain that every black family has had at least one family member, possibly more, who was subjected to a clear incident (not just imagined) of racism, and often this might have been the cause of a major loss (educational or job opportunity, membership in a church or community organization, housing opportunity, personal safety, etc.).
I tend to agree that Juneteenth should be given much more attention in this country. After all, if legal abortion were ended in this country, many Christians would celebrate the day and event every year! I think Juneteenth is something that all races can get together about, so it’s a good starting point. We had some wonderful celebrations in our city yesterday, even though they were smaller than usual because of the COVID-19 fears.
And I definitely support the teaching of history in the schools and in the entertainment media, as long as it is taught with correct scholarship, and as long as the events of the past are taught in the context of the times in which they took place. A man like Thomas Jefferson should be recognized for the good things that he accomplished even as we condemn the bad things that he did. We don’t throw out the whole man because of sin–with that criteria, we would all be “thrown out.”
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F_Marturana
Guest
Yes.
But in my house when we pray we ask Jesus to protect and save the unborn.
Because we do that doesn’t mean we don’t want all life protected, just that the unborn are particularly vulnerable.
By saying black lives matter, I think is the same concept.
But in my house when we pray we ask Jesus to protect and save the unborn.
Because we do that doesn’t mean we don’t want all life protected, just that the unborn are particularly vulnerable.
By saying black lives matter, I think is the same concept.
blackforest
Well-known member
The conservative writer, Thomas Sowell, observed that it’s a common, if not disingenuous, tactic to hide an agenda within a generalization. Both liberals and conservatives are guilty of this.
When you pick it apart, however, the generalization doesn’t stand. For example, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists will stand for “reproductive freedom.” But when I want the freedom to reproduce by having my babies out of hospital, they frown on that one. Or politicians will ramble on about “family values” while enmeshed in some sort of sex scandal. It goes on and on.
I can’t speak for the BLM movement at large, which exists apart from the website, but I do wish the latter would just focus on police brutality and justice for George Floyd without trying to compel others to swear allegiance to other divisive causes.
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StudentMI
Guest
Lol that was kind of to be expected by any movement that gains a following. History is replete with examples.
blackforest
Well-known member
Oh good heavens. I see this phenomenon within the pro-life movement! I once tried to help out at a pregnancy resource center, but the Evangelical majority running it had other agendas antithetical to my Catholic faith. You’d think if we took women seriously when they face crisis pregnancies, we could set aside our differences. But no, let’s do the opposite and introduce some . . . 
It frustrates me to no end.
It frustrates me to no end.
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StudentMI
Guest
Look into the ‘Machiavellians’ like Robert Michels and his Iron Law of Oligarchy.
blackforest
Well-known member
Sounds about on target . . . 
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Peeps
Guest
I agree.
I honestly don’t think BLM is a “local” or “grass roots” organization. The printed agenda is just too all-encompassing. It would seem from BLM teaching that racism will never be eliminated unless all aspects of the U.S. political and economic systems are eliminated and replaced by…? It’s not really clear, and I’m sure that’s on purpose so that people won’t know what’s happening.
I think there are big powers behind it, probably organizations from outside the U.S. At the very least, if it isn’t from outside the U.S., those people who initially organized it have studied the works of various socialists (e.g., Alinsky) and desire a radical transformation of the United States, along the lines of what Secretary of State Clinton was advocating (and the main reason she lost her bid for the Presidency because there are enough people who recognize her agenda for what it really is).
Hopefully we’ll find out someday who is really behind BLM. But it probably won’t matter as long as the majority of our schoolchildren are in public schocols and getting brainwashed with the anti-American Kool Aid. If I had children today, I would never allow them to go near a public school in their younger years. I fear for our country. I]m guessing that their unwritten social agenda extends to old people, too, and that it involves “elder end-of-life freedom and justice” (translation: medically-induced death of old fogies who wear diapers and eat with their fingers and don’t know that they are choosing induced death when that nice doctor tells them to put an “X” on the pretty paper).
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Minks
Guest
How does the usual definition of numinous apply in this sentence?
blackforest
Well-known member
It’s just that I ignore the organization. I support the movement wholeheartedly. You don’t have to be part of the organization to be part of the movement.
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