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StudentMI
Guest
Is the OP even Catholic? His profile doesn’t say one way or another.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
Not sure, I did ask if he or she had been subject to racism but did not ask that. I have asked that question to another on another thread and got the duck and weave
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josie_L
Guest
He’s an atheist but was brought up by a very Catholic family.
Note: I didn’t ask I just searched his activity on his profile.
Note: I didn’t ask I just searched his activity on his profile.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
What kind of advice are you seeking? We on CAF can usually help with that if it does not go against the forum rules.
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pnewton
Guest
Do you mean support of black lives, or of the amorphous BLM movement? I would say as far as the latter, it would depend very much on the local BLM individuals. There is no division here for discussion by race, btw. That is not what this place is about.
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JanR
Guest
To answer your question, I was addressing both dvdjs’ response and yours, as both apply to and expand upon my initial post of “All lives matter”JanR:
I’m not sure why you think I’m addressing you. I’m talking about people who always answer back to Black lives matter with All lives matter as if the former contradicts the latter; At best it’s deliberately misunderstanding what is intended by Black lives matter. I don’t think I even had you in mind before this post.
DVDJS said it sounded like downplaying the racial injustice that exist in the U.S., and then you gave a couple of examples of how a generalized statement like that might sound like downplaying specific incidents. You went on to say “…and you feel the need to answer back with ‘All lives matter,’ then you’re disputing the premise that the group in question is being particularly targeted.”
That was definitely addressing my initial post, and I felt I needed to clarify that, contrary to downplaying blacks being particularly targeted, I was pointing out that when it comes to human life mattering, ALL lives are inclusive and the lives of no one group of people should ever be devalued over the lives of anyone else.
Contrary to misunderstanding the intent of Black Lives Matter, I was saying, in those three simple words, that black lives matter AND everyone else’s lives ALSO matter.
I just figured that meaning would be obvious to anyone reading my initial post. Evidently, it wasn’t.
Sorry about the misunderstanding. I think I have sufficiently cleared it up – at least I hope so.
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Peeps
Guest
I read it and found it frightening and disturbing.
Just a few observations. Repeatedly, the BLM website uses the term “by the State.” E.g., “intervene when violence is inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.”
This phrase is used over and over again.
I’m 63, and to me, the use of that phrase recalls communist manifestos that constantly referred to 'the state."
If you are young, this may mean nothing to you and may sound like old lady fear or McCarthyism. So I suggest doing some asking around and some research into political works written in the 1960s.
I personally have rejoiced many times when I 've seen laws passed and enforced over the last 60 years that protect black people (and other minorities), and I have seen many examples where those laws were enforced BY THE STATE, and the “vigilantes” confounded and/or subject to arrest and penalties.
I am disturbed by the number of violent buzzwords in the BLM site; e.g., “enraged” “disrupt” . I do not see a peaceful approach in the website.
And perhaps this sounds really “establishment” (another term that was used in the 60s when I was a teen), but how do these people have so much time to “disrupt” and march and protest and attend rallies?! I can’t even get time off work to spend with my daughter when she is home at the end of the month–we currently have a “No Vacation Request” policy at the hospital where I work because of the COVID-19 crisis. And my husband lost his job (of 40 years) last year, and was hired at a company that only gives him 14 days of leave time (that’s for sickness, vacations, or anything). So he uses that time only for necessary time off.
I don’t get it. How do these people make a living anyway?! Who or what pays their bills and buys food and lodging for them while they are marching? And who does their job for them?
Anyway, something else that was disturbing to me in the BLM website was a paragraph that I’ll quote here: “Help us fight misinformation. Report suspicious sites, stories, ads, social accounts, and posts about BLM.”
That’s SCARY, ToothGirl! Nowadays, there are computer people who are capable of totally messing with someone’s finances, company, personal life, etc. through some rather brilliant hacking! How exactly does BLM “fight misinformation”? And what exactly do they consider misinformation? This discussion thread on CAF? My post?
If I were intelligent, I would not post this.
Anyway, to those of us who have been around several decades, BLM is…disturbing. Many of us are willing to give it a chance, but we are very wary of some of these things I pointed out, and we want to tread carefully before giving it support. I think the Catholic Church and other Protestant denominations will also take a very cautious approach and not endorse the organization until more information is forthcoming.
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F_Marturana
Guest
I know people who protest abortion clinics once or twice weekly, yet still have jobs and families and don’t need time off.
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josie_L
Guest
You do realize that we’re participating on a thread entitled “Any Black Lives Matter Catholics Here” and that the OP was asking to talk to Black Catholics who supported BLM and requesting why white Catholics weren’t interested in joining BLM, right???
But I’m obsessed with race. I suggest you direct that comment to the OP.
But I’m obsessed with race. I suggest you direct that comment to the OP.
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Peeps
Guest
There’s a huge difference between standing quietly in front of an abortion clinic with a sign and Rosary, and marching/chanting with thousands of others throughout a city.
We used to do a weekly protest in our city at our abortion clinic (which, praise God, shut down several years ago due to failing the health department’s cleanliness inspection). We would drive to it in about 5 minutes. spend a couple of hours standing quietly and praying, and then leave. We only went on my days off work. And we didn’t go every week because often, my day off was not the same as the protest day.
But these marches are huge, and they are in large cities where there is no parking allowed (on Monday, my husband’s business was stymied because the bridges were up, the trains were not running, and no one was being allowed into the city). They last for hours; even the little protest rally in our city last night started gathering in the early afternoon and didn’t end until later in the evening (around 8:00 p.m.), but people were still hanging around after 10:00 p.m. (the 10 oclock TV news was covering it and had reporters live on the scene).
And in the really large cities, the marches have happened every day this week since the murder of Mr. Floyd happened. Just getting to the place where the march/rally was held, participating in the march/rally, and then making your way back to your transportation home would take all day. If you got caught up in any of the violence, you would have had a more difficult time getting to a safe place and getting back to your transportation home. And if you are one of the ones arrested (either rightfully or wrongfully), you’re stuck–you’re not going to be at work that night or the next day!
So my question remains–what do these people do for a living? I suppose many of them might own their own businesses or be freelance workers–lawn and garden, interior design, contractors, computer work, writers and artists, etc., so they only have to report to themselves, not an employer. Many entertainment professionals (like my daughter) haven’t had work since March, and would have the time (but not necessarily the money!) to join the protest marches. And it’s possible that many of them work for big companies that support the protest and encourage and possibly even financially contribute so that their employees can participate. Or they could be students who have been out of school for months now and have the freedom to hike or bike into the cities and join the demonstrations.
I wonder what they’re all eating. Food trucks? Good opportunity to get a lot of business for food truck owners.
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josie_L
Guest
By the way, recall that you’re the one who encouraged the OP to share his interestingly different viewpoints, so please don’t ask surprised if race is mentioned.
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blackforest
Well-known member
With all due respect, you are asking CAF members to identify their ethnicity. Not everyone feels comfortable doing that on an anonymous forum.
The best take on the Catholic response to BLM is here. http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-act...uguster-blm-reflection-final-copy-website.pdf
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F_Marturana
Guest
Don’t both require time? A morning abortion clinic protest requires travel time, and at least a few hours or so. Some do it once weekly, others multiple times.
I thought your point was how do protestors hold form jobs and protest. I gave an example.
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josie_L
Guest
You’re right, you win, how silly of me to address the fact that you thought he was from a DIFFERENT BACKGROUND, only to be told that he’s not black, and then have you answer “and so what”, which led me to say that, " I thought you were under the mistaken impression that he was"!!
Simple, don’t condemn me for something I didn’t do when you’re the one who’s obviously encouraging the OP’s obsession with race.
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Pug
Guest
I can’t speak for all Catholics. My take is that having looked at what BLM puts on the website, I am uncomfortable with some statements, such as: We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family … I would be more inclined to support BLM if it were narrowly focused on, say, police reform.
The article wants formal training instituted. I don’t think it is a great idea to install formal anti-racism training at all levels of catholic education, not like they run in those diversity training workshops that I’ve seen. However, I think it is a great idea to teach Catholic teaching, such as our catechism says in paragraph 1935:
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josie_L
Guest
But you knew his when you said you were from different backgrounds?
And keep claiming that I’m race obsessed and I will have your comments flags.
You insulted me and now I can’t even defend myself without you claiming I’m obsessed with race.
And keep claiming that I’m race obsessed and I will have your comments flags.
You insulted me and now I can’t even defend myself without you claiming I’m obsessed with race.
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Lost_sheep2
Guest
Exactly this.
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petra22
Guest
I’d like to say they bring smiles and loving hearts and a love for Jesus. They work hard for the good of the community. What do white people bring? We used to have bazaars when I was a kid and all the mothers and fathers of my classmates joined in to make it a fun time/money raising time for the kids and for the church projects…
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pnewton
Guest
Thanks for the link. I thought they were just about, you know, black lives. I did not know they had so many other agendas. So no, I do not think I would support them speaking to a Catholic Church with so many questionable other issues. It is better to use those local leaders who are involved in promotion of civil rights
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Thank you for your thoughtful (as usual) post.ToothGirl:
I read it and found it frightening and disturbing.
Just a few observations. Repeatedly, the BLM website uses the term “by the State.” E.g., “intervene when violence is inflicted on Black communities by the state and vigilantes.”
This phrase is used over and over again.
I’m 63, and to me, the use of that phrase recalls communist manifestos that constantly referred to 'the state."
If you are young, this may mean nothing to you and may sound like old lady fear or McCarthyism. So I suggest doing some asking around and some research into political works written in the 1960s.
I personally have rejoiced many times when I 've seen laws passed and enforced over the last 60 years that protect black people (and other minorities), and I have seen many examples where those laws were enforced BY THE STATE, and the “vigilantes” confounded and/or subject to arrest and penalties.
I am disturbed by the number of violent buzzwords in the BLM site; e.g., “enraged” “disrupt” . I do not see a peaceful approach in the website.
And perhaps this sounds really “establishment” (another term that was used in the 60s when I was a teen), but how do these people have so much time to “disrupt” and march and protest and attend rallies?! I can’t even get time off work to spend with my daughter when she is home at the end of the month–we currently have a “No Vacation Request” policy at the hospital where I work because of the COVID-19 crisis. And my husband lost his job (of 40 years) last year, and was hired at a company that only gives him 14 days of leave time (that’s for sickness, vacations, or anything). So he uses that time only for necessary time off.
I don’t get it. How do these people make a living anyway?! Who or what pays their bills and buys food and lodging for them while they are marching? And who does their job for them?
Anyway, something else that was disturbing to me in the BLM website was a paragraph that I’ll quote here: “Help us fight misinformation. Report suspicious sites, stories, ads, social accounts, and posts about BLM.”
That’s SCARY, ToothGirl! Nowadays, there are computer people who are capable of totally messing with someone’s finances, company, personal life, etc. through some rather brilliant hacking! How exactly does BLM “fight misinformation”? And what exactly do they consider misinformation? This discussion thread on CAF? My post?
If I were intelligent, I would not post this.
Anyway, to those of us who have been around several decades, BLM is…disturbing. Many of us are willing to give it a chance, but we are very wary of some of these things I pointed out, and we want to tread carefully before giving it support. I think the Catholic Church and other Protestant denominations will also take a very cautious approach and not endorse the organization until more information is forthcoming.
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