Any Catholics around who reject a teaching or two? Post here!

[the_phoenix]

The* Dead Catholic *Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.

The best of these in my opinion is the Dead Catholic.

You have the following quote as part of your signature:

“In wickedness of pride is lost the light to understand how little grace is earned and how much given.” — Robert C. Hunter (Poet / Lyricist)

Yes, and …
We must each also have the humility to accept the grace of salvation given to us
while we still have the opportunity to avail ourselves of such sacraments as Confession,
where indeed much grace is given,
if we hope to receive the gift of being a Living Catholic in Heaven.

…

To apply this to the larger topic of this thread,
I would offer as a suggestion to
“Any Catholics around who reject a teaching or two”
that they be open to the grace waiting to be given.

…

 

[Luvtosew]

Ideally that person would frequent the sacrament of reconciliation. But yes, even if not, I believe that is better. At least you’re home then.

thats being more loyal to a organization than God.

 

[the_phoenix]

I would still recommend what I suggested in the last paragraph. Don’t ask whether the teaching is true or not right now. Don’t fight with the powers of the Church. Go before Christ truly present in the Eucharist (whether in the tabernacle or in adoration if you can), genuinely open your heart to Him, and ask Him one question: Is the Catholic Church the true Church on earth, YOUR church? Then wait for His response. If he says no, go ahead, do whatever you desire for then near anything is permissible. But if he says yes, you must drop your pride and repent of your arrogance, admit that perhaps the 2000 years of phenomenal minds and guiding of the Holy Spirit know more than you and return home. I am NOT saying you are arrogant, I am simply presenting the two potential scenarios and it is up to you to find out the truth. You have already made up your mind so no amount of us convincing you otherwise will help. You must go to Christ and ask for His Word.

EDIT:
I just wanted to add one thing. When I converted, the one thing that made me desire to come into the Church was the Eucharist. I realized that IF the Eucharist is really Jesus physically present then, even if ALL the other teachings of the Church were wrong, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, I actually did not care because there, in the Catholic Church, physically, Jesus, GOD is. The Eucharist being true also happens to validate the Priesthood, Apostolic Succession, the Magisterium and the Papacy, thus every other teaching, but even if it did not, I would still have come in. Think about that a little.

 

[Luvtosew]

On the Last Day, at the end of time.

So you don’t believe your soul leaves your body when you die? I think they believed that in the days of the Apostles and Paul.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

The *Cafeteria Catholic *believes his conscience over Church teaching, but still calls himself Catholic and gets communion.

The Protestant gives up on the Church -he realizes his views are in opposition to Church teaching, so he in turn believes that Church teaching must be wrong.

The* Dead Catholic *Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.

The best of these in my opinion is the Dead Catholic.

But modern day Protestants are not heretics, but people who practice a Christianity founded on heresy. Catholics were given the treasure of truth and the fountains of sanctifying grace we call sacraments. Woe to those who were given much yet live no better than those who do not have all these gifts.

 

[1SeekingChrist]

thats being more loyal to a organization than God.

Only if that Church is simply an organization. However, as I and many here believe, the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic [universal], and Apostolic Church. If that’s true then the person is taking a step of faith, acknowledging there is something more than themselves that they are involved in, and being loyal to God though it is very difficult for them to do so.

 

[Luvtosew]

Only if that Church is simply an organization. However, as I and many here believe, the Catholic Church is the One, Holy, Catholic [universal], and Apostolic Church. If that’s true then the person is taking a step of faith, acknowledging there is something more than themselves that they are involved in, and being loyal to God though it is very difficult for them to do so.

So a Dead Catholic is better, that in itself tells me they don’t really have faith in their Church are are too apathic to do anything. They are just going to Mass, as a routine, but hey yea I’m Catholic.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

So you don’t believe your soul leaves your body when you die? I think they believed that in the days of the Apostles and Paul.

The Church has always taught that the soul separates from the body and is judged at the instant of death. The body will resurrect from the dead at the end of time, just read the Apostles’ Creed. At the end of time the bodies of both the just and the damned will resurrect and join their soul either in heaven or in hell. The Catechism teaches that at the resurrection the bodies of the just will be glorified, and have the gifts we glimpse in the Resurrected Body of Jesus Christ. *

At the end of time there will be the Resurrection, or restoration, of the body. The blessed in heaven will have the same bodies, however, those bodies will have special characteristics, including the gifts of:

***Impassibility ** The gift which preserves not only from death, but also from pain. It arises from the perfect submission of the body to the soul.

**Agility ** This gift delivers bodies from the heaviness which weighs down the present life. The risen body can go where the soul pleases, with a swiftness and ease which St. Jerome compares to that of the eagle.

**Subtility ** This gift renders the body capable of penetrating other bodies without difficulty. Thus the glorious body of the risen Christ entered the Cenacle though the doors were closed.

**Clarity ** This gift gives to the body of the saints that brightness, that splendor, which is the very essence of the beautiful. Our Lord says: “Then shall the just shine as the sun in the kingdom of their father.” To give an idea of this quality, He was transfigured before His apostles on Tabor. St. Paul says: “Jesus Christ will reform the body of our lowness, made like to the body of His glory.” The Israelites in the desert saw an image of this glory on the forehead of Moses, after He had seen God and received God’s words. He was so luminous that their eyes could not endure the splendor.

This clarity is but a reflection, an overflowing, of the glory of the soul on that of the body. Hence the bodies of the saints will not all have the same degree of clarity, but each will have the degree proportioned to its light of glory. Thus St. Paul says: “Star differeth from star in glory, so also is the resurrection of the dead.” *

 

[1SeekingChrist]

So a Dead Catholic is better, that in itself tells me they don’t really have faith in their Church are are too apathic to do anything. They are just going to Mass, as a routine, but hey yea I’m Catholic.

Well I think that’s taking a little bit of a leap here. Let’s look at what it says again:

The Dead Catholic Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.

It says here this person love and respects Church teaching and is ashamed. The fact that s/he is ashamed is because they care, otherwise there would be no shame. The only thing this person must do to become a living Catholic is to receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation. I would venture that every Catholic on these forums (unless we have any saints about???) has been a dead Catholic at one point or another. It comes with the whole sinner saved by grace thing

 

[SaintPatrick333]

It’s nice of you to help come up with a solution for me, but maybe on another thread? This wasn’t suppose to come down to me. I know what I have decided and I know my reasons why. But, I feel that if I say why I reject them I’ll just get negative responses as I already have despite keeping my views to myself.

I have done my own in depth reading into the teachings I’ve not felt comfortable with. I don’t see what bringing them up can do.

Thank you and sorry.

I only suggest because there is a good chance that someone will have an answer for you that you never considered before that could shine all new light on whatever it is you struggle with. But to read into something on your own and make that decision, be it internally or externally, you essentially cut yourself off from hearing the Truth. Someone might be able to explain it in a new way that you’d understand, but you are building barriers because your formed opinion will take the place of fact and you’ll wind up resistant to being open to the Truth. Trust me, it’s been a 3 year journey for me before I found my way to the Catholic Church. There’s a lot to understand but it is all there for good reason, because God wills it there. Pray about it my friend. Maybe speak to a Priest or two about these issues and hear what they have to say. Not railing on protestants or anything, but you’re really putting yourself in danger of being prideful due to the fact you were with the Catholic Church in fullness of the Truth. Now you are “rejecting” the Church, thus rejecting Christ, to go to a ecclesiastic community that is not in the fullness of Truth and thus not “fully” preaching God’s message and ministry. Invincible Ignorance only works if the individual didn’t know any better. Not knowing and rejecting are two very different things and can very easily be the difference on judgement day. The Holy Spirit will guide you friend. Trust in God’s wisdom, not your own (for we are just men and limited in our understanding of God if not led by the Holy Spirit)

 

[Luvtosew]

The Church has always taught that the soul separates from the body and is judged at the instant of death. The body will resurrect from the dead at the end of time, just read the Apostles’ Creed. At the end of time the bodies of both the just and the damned will resurrect and join their soul either in heaven or in hell. The Catechism teaches that at the resurrection the bodies of the just will be glorified, and have the gifts we glimpse in the Resurrected Body of Jesus Christ. *

At the end of time there will be the Resurrection, or restoration, of the body. The blessed in heaven will have the same bodies, however, those bodies will have special characteristics, including the gifts of:

***Impassibility *** The gift which preserves not only from death, but also from pain. It arises from the perfect submission of the body to the soul.

**Agility ** This gift delivers bodies from the heaviness which weighs down the present life. The risen body can go where the soul pleases, with a swiftness and ease which St. Jerome compares to that of the eagle.

**Subtility ** This gift renders the body capable of penetrating other bodies without difficulty. Thus the glorious body of the risen Christ entered the Cenacle though the doors were closed.

**Clarity ** This gift gives to the body of the saints that brightness, that splendor, which is the very essence of the beautiful. Our Lord says: “Then shall the just shine as the sun in the kingdom of their father.” To give an idea of this quality, He was transfigured before His apostles on Tabor. St. Paul says: “Jesus Christ will reform the body of our lowness, made like to the body of His glory.” The Israelites in the desert saw an image of this glory on the forehead of Moses, after He had seen God and received God’s words. He was so luminous that their eyes could not endure the splendor.

This clarity is but a reflection, an overflowing, of the glory of the soul on that of the body. Hence the bodies of the saints will not all have the same degree of clarity, but each will have the degree proportioned to its light of glory. Thus St. Paul says: “Star differeth from star in glory, so also is the resurrection of the dead.”

Yes sounds good, I guess I was just wondering why they changed their mind on it, but think about it, some people die in a fire, and well we are to bury them in a urn, unlike some who spread them around.

 

[Gabriel_Serafin]

Yes sounds good, I guess I was just wondering why they changed their mind on it, but think about it, some people die in a fire, and well we are to bury them in a urn, unlike some who spread them around.

One of the Corporal Work of Mercy is to give proper burial to the dead. In a sense, when one wishes to have their ashes spread in the sea or send them into space (as some do)–or sprinkle them who-knows where they are not exactly reflecting a faith in awaiting the certain resurrection of their body. Either one believes it or not. The Church teaches that at the end of time all bodies will be resurrected, whether they were lost at sea, burned to smithereens in a blast or drawn and quartered as St. Thomas More.

I would think that if one truly has faith and looks forward to the resurrection, their wishes would reflect a traditional Christian burial—not “send my ashes to the moon”

Here is a list every Catholic should be familiar with.

 

[Luvtosew]

One of the Corporal Work of Mercy is to give proper burial to the dead. In a sense, when one wishes to have their ashes spread in the sea or send them into space (as some do)–or sprinkle them who-knows where they are not exactly reflecting a faith in awaiting the certain resurrection of their body. Either one believes it or not. The Church teaches that at the end of time all bodies will be resurrected, whether they were lost at sea, burned to smithereens in a blast or drawn and quartered as St. Thomas More.

I would think that if one truly has faith and looks forward to the resurrection, their wishes would reflect a traditional Christian burial—not “send my ashes to the moon”

Here is a list every Catholic should be familiar with.

I’m having mine put in a urn in the ground, no flying around for me either ! God will take care of us once were gone from this life. That glorified body sounds nice hey, not in a rush for it though. Thanks for the link.

 

[Zundrah]

The *Cafeteria Catholic *believes his conscience over Church teaching, but still calls himself Catholic and gets communion.

The Protestant gives up on the Church -he realizes his views are in opposition to Church teaching, so he in turn believes that Church teaching must be wrong.

The* Dead Catholic *Believes, loves, and respects Church teaching, and is ashamed when he does wrong, but does it anyway. He refrains from communion but still goes to Church.

The best of these in my opinion is the Dead Catholic.

That seems harsh.

 

[Zundrah]

I had to comment on this cremation one, even in the days of Paul he was teaching
Resurrection, so when did they believe the body truly resurrected?

How can cremation effect the process anyway? Since the body decomposes if not cremated.

I was once told that in a certain country they started cremating deliberately because the catholics were sensitive to it. It was like a cruel attack on their beliefs.

I also wanted to say being a cradle Catholic myself I agree with the above poster, unless one was really in the loop, remember no internet and cable EWTN, it was hard to keep up with stuff and changes.

You’ve got a good point there, I never considered that. I suppose all you could have done was ask the priest? But even the priest at my Church (of which there are two) spouts personal opinions rather that doctrinal fact. Making it harder all the more so.

 

[Zundrah]

If you want to have a life-changing experience by realizing the great evil which Artificial Contraception has brought into the world just listen to this online MP3 by Dr. Janet E Smith.

PART 1

PART 2

Here is also a brief video with Dr. Smith

Can I ask, is there any form of contraception that the Church does allow and if so why?

 

[Zundrah]

I would still recommend what I suggested in the last paragraph. Don’t ask whether the teaching is true or not right now. Don’t fight with the powers of the Church. Go before Christ truly present in the Eucharist (whether in the tabernacle or in adoration if you can), genuinely open your heart to Him, and ask Him one question: Is the Catholic Church the true Church on earth, YOUR church? Then wait for His response. If he says no, go ahead, do whatever you desire for then near anything is permissible. But if he says yes, you must drop your pride and repent of your arrogance, admit that perhaps the 2000 years of phenomenal minds and guiding of the Holy Spirit know more than you and return home. I am NOT saying you are arrogant, I am simply presenting the two potential scenarios and it is up to you to find out the truth. You have already made up your mind so no amount of us convincing you otherwise will help. You must go to Christ and ask for His Word.

I could go on to get confirmed while in this state of thinking… and I say thinking, because I’d like the assume that the Church is correct on all that it teaches and therefore I am inevitably wrong in my view.

Yes I could pray more and more about it, when ever I’ve done that things have always pulled through. But you must understand that for me and for every Catholic, to believe it could be wrong on one point means it is not the Rock Jesus spoke of. I believe it is the Rock, but I believe it is wrong on the cases I have rejected its teachings on.

EDIT:
I just wanted to add one thing. When I converted, the one thing that made me desire to come into the Church was the Eucharist. I realized that IF the Eucharist is really Jesus physically present then, even if ALL the other teachings of the Church were wrong, EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM, I actually did not care because there, in the Catholic Church, physically, Jesus, GOD is. The Eucharist being true also happens to validate the Priesthood, Apostolic Succession, the Magisterium and the Papacy, thus every other teaching, but even if it did not, I would still have come in. Think about that a little.

I understand fully what you are saying, and what you felt. When I realized that I wouldn’t be able to study the one subject I wanted to so much in college, that was the most similar, heart breaking acceptance I ever had to take in which was but a piece of how I felt when I first found out that upon my beginning year at the Church I wouldn’t be able to get confirmed yet due to the 18 month wait. It was the Eucharist that it was keeping me from. I pined for it.

 

[Zundrah]

thats being more loyal to a organization than God.

No… it’s holding on and waiting for what you know will nurture and eventually save you.

 

[Zundrah]

I only suggest because there is a good chance that someone will have an answer for you that you never considered before that could shine all new light on whatever it is you struggle with. But to read into something on your own and make that decision, be it internally or externally, you essentially cut yourself off from hearing the Truth. Someone might be able to explain it in a new way that you’d understand, but you are building barriers because your formed opinion will take the place of fact and you’ll wind up resistant to being open to the Truth. Trust me, it’s been a 3 year journey for me before I found my way to the Catholic Church. There’s a lot to understand but it is all there for good reason, because God wills it there. Pray about it my friend. Maybe speak to a Priest or two about these issues and hear what they have to say. Not railing on protestants or anything, but you’re really putting yourself in danger of being prideful due to the fact you were with the Catholic Church in fullness of the Truth. Now you are “rejecting” the Church, thus rejecting Christ, to go to a ecclesiastic community that is not in the fullness of Truth and thus not “fully” preaching God’s message and ministry. Invincible Ignorance only works if the individual didn’t know any better. Not knowing and rejecting are two very different things and can very easily be the difference on judgement day. The Holy Spirit will guide you friend. Trust in God’s wisdom, not your own (for we are just men and limited in our understanding of God if not led by the Holy Spirit)

I just don’t know if it is always a good idea to open up here. Some times you really have to be prepared before you dive. Labels get fired from all directions.

 

[Zundrah]

+JMJ+

OK, if that’s your only problem then

1. Go buy your own copy of the Catechism of the Catholic Church or bookmark this website: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

I’ve got one.

1. If you have any problems with any teachings of the Catholic Church, pray first, then read the Catechism about those problems.

That’s what I have done.

1. If you have still have any problems you may ask about them here or (better) ask a faithful, orthodox Catholic priest you trust about them.

That’s what I don’t want to do. I’m okay with asking people here about whether or not I’ve got the general idea of the teaching correct, as so to assume of course that maybe my perception of it’s idea on the matter is wrong. But it seems the Church is really teaching what I thought it was. It’s that with those teachings, no matter how it explains itself for practicing/believing them they still seem totally and fully illegitimate.

It’s like me asking why do you stroke your cat and you saying “because Mars has a high level of carbon dioxide in its atmosphere.”

As for asking my priest, when ever in RCIA we brought up some such query he’d lazily dismiss it as not having enough time and he’d say that we should only ask questions relating to that days subject. So for me it isn’t really an option.