Any converts from atheism/agnosticism?

[dranzal]

I’m curious about the athiest view on something. What happens when someone dies? What do athiests think?

I second the C.S. Lewis recommendation. He has several good ones: Mere Christianity, The Problem of Pain, Surprised by Joy, etc.

 

[Catholic_Mike]

Jessamy,

Well, I have a question for you. You mention arguments for God’s existence that you find convincing. Can you point me in the direction of some of them? I have my reasons for believing - I’m not impressed by butterflies so much as my own mental life, especially the will - but I would like to see others. I think that there are good reasons, but plenty of apparently bad ones abound too… though maybe there is wisdom in some of those I don’t see.

I’m sure someone else may have recommended “The Problem of Pain” (CS Lewis) as a good take on suffering and all that. I found the reasons given there at least plausible - enough so that the existence of pain can’t really interfere with my reasons for believing in God.

In any case, it sounds like you’ve got a real desire for truth and the intellectual curiosity to do as much thinking as this will take, even if there are bits of tedium. It’s difficult to be objective but you sound like you’re making the effort. Your only real problem is listening to Linkin Park. I mean, it’d be nice if you convert to Christianity, but it’s almost as pressing that we get you spending your bad-mood Sundays with Nirvana instead.

By the way, praying is hard for many of us. I’m a cradle-Catholic who recieved almost no instruction in the faith and I fidget. But in all likelyhood, it can only help.

 

[rpp]

I’m curious about the athiest view on something. What happens when someone dies? What do athiests think?

I second the C.S. Lewis recommendation. He has several good ones: Mere Christianity, The Problem of Pain, Surprised by Joy, etc.

When I was an atheist, I simply believed that death was like sleep, except you never wake up or dream. Death is a termination of existence and all awareness; complete oblivion.

 

[Eireann]

I’m not a convert from anything, but the concept of God is hard to grasp for many.
Flowers, trees, birds wildlife in general work for some, someone had to make them.

It must have been harder for those before Christ to believe, but what does it for me and makes God come alive is the Gospels.

Was there a child called Jesus born in Bethlehem, does this place exist ? yes.

Was there a King Herod that wanted Him killed ? yes.

Does Nazareth exist ? yes.

Galilee ? yes.

Was there a man called Jesus who made the lame walk, the blind see, the dumb speak, those possessed constant the dead raised ? for me yes.

There were many witnesses, and in the beginning was the word, but now that the word has become flesh, there now is no excuse for me not to believe in God.

Because He came to show us the way, as a child it was the Gospel stories that penetrated my heart so much.

And because I was suffering, it was the Crucifixion that attracted me to Jesus, He could identify with my suffering and I His, in a small way.
I recommend any unbeliever to sit down and read the Gospels, because that is where God in the flesh came among us.

If after reading that, and even doing a process of illumination you come up with a negative, then I don’t know what will convince anyone.

Oh yeah ! God comes alive for me in the Gospels.

Biblical places.

 

[yeshua]

Greetings, everyone, especially to Jessamy,

I would like to put forth my (name removed by moderator)ut into your very delicate situation, Jessamy, as you have demonstrated a fascinating ability to remain independent of your society, family and boyfriend in trying to determine your path; for this, I congratulate you. Many people need their crutch, they need to have their answer brought to them as if they have no control by either sympathy, context, science, or easability, yet you have shown a remarkable open mind and unbiased heart. For all of the aforementioned means to finding truth all lack that One means to find truth—love, the very nature and operation of whom you seek.

Granted, love can be found in your relationships with others. Love can drive a person to “show you the true faith.” Yet the love of God is the only means that can and will reveal Himself in your life. Isn’t that the question we ask ourselves everyday? Where is He? People take it upon themselves that this is answered by only them and quickly attempt to substitute their emptiness with the poor options that we make ourselves. We wake up to mystery every day, so eager to “fix” what we miss in our hearts and heads with what we can reach out and grab. Yet this does not have to be so.

God is everything, omnipresent,and omnipotent, He is noun and all Creation are adjectives. What binds this creation, this Creator with His creation, is He Himself, His nature, what binds every human being together, is Love. You have to wake up and look for God in your daily life, the divine imprint that shows us we are not human beings with divine experiences but divine beings with mere human experiences.

Jessamy, you ask how does one acquire faith is she is not born into it? Have you ever looked into a newborn’s eyes or glanced at someone homeless on the street? Have you been moved by these things? Then you have had faith, you just have to wake in it. This is called prayer. When you quiet yourself and realize that everything around is and is bound by Love, talk to Him.

Peace and God Bless

 

[rpp]

I’m not a convert from anything, but the concept of God is hard to grasp for many.
Flowers, trees, birds wildlife in general work for some, someone had to make them.

It must have been harder for those before Christ to believe, but what does it for me and makes God come alive is the Gospels.

Was there a child called Jesus born in Bethlehem, does this place exist ? yes.

Was there a King Herod that wanted Him killed ? yes.

Does Nazareth exist ? yes.

Galilee ? yes.

Was there a man called Jesus who made the lame walk, the blind see, the dumb speak, those possessed constant the dead raised ? for me yes.

There were many witnesses, and in the beginning was the word, but now that the word has become flesh, there now is no excuse for me not to believe in God.

Because He came to show us the way, as a child it was the Gospel stories that penetrated my heart so much.

And because I was suffering, it was the Crucifixion that attracted me to Jesus, He could identify with my suffering and I His, in a small way.
I recommend any unbeliever to sit down and read the Gospels, because that is where God in the flesh came among us.

If after reading that, and even doing a process of illumination you come up with a negative, then I don’t know what will convince anyone.

Oh yeah ! God comes alive for me in the Gospels.

Biblical places.

I like hpw you said this. Very to the point. Something about how you put the first part together, in this Advent season, gave a strange and warm upselling in my chest. Thank you so much.

I am not Irish, but here is to you!

 

[Eireann]

I like hpw you said this. Very to the point. Something about how you put the first part together, in this Advent season, gave a strange and warm upselling in my chest. Thank you so much.

I am not Irish, but here is to you!

Thanks, and this line should have been…

Was there a man called Jesus who made the lame walk, the blind see, the dumb speak, those possessed cleansed the dead raised ? for me yes.

Spell checker has a mind of it’s own.

 

[Bigwill]

But there’s the problem. How can one be convinced of God’s existence when everything in her upbringing tells her this a load of baloney? Where does faith come from if it isn’t gifted to you as a child? I’ve tried to pray a little but I feel mostly like I’m talking to myself.

I’m a convert from atheism. (Actually, I’m a revert–baptized Catholic as an infant, and I went to a fundamentalist protestant church through high school, but became an agnostic and then an atheist through college and law school.)

For me, the begining came when I met my wife. I had the unmistakable and undeniable feeling that we were made for each other. And, if she and I were “made for each other”, then there HAD to be a Maker. That was the crystal. I began restudying the religions, and was drawn to the Catholic Church because of its logical consistency (it was the only religion that I could not find obvious philosophical and logical holes in).

I’m not sure how that helps you in your journey. I would encourage you to consider some of the scientific discoveries man has made over the last several hundred years. We have learned that the universe is such that, were any of the planets revolving around a star to be off by even 1/16 of its total orbit, that planets would collide. That doesn’t happen because the design is exactly as it has to be. It’s not reasonable to assume that the universe as we know it, which is so dependent on the exact mathematics and chemistry and physics involved, could be based on chance. And if it’s not chance, then it has to be a Creator of some kind. That Creator is God.

 

[forthright]

In many ways, purely logical arguments fall short. When you are raised with a certain bias, it causes any circumstantial evidence to fall on the side against God instead of the side for him. But when you’ve experienced God for yourself, you can no longer dismiss His existence - the evidence is no longer second hand or circumstantial. As Fr. Larry Richards puts it, you come to know that God exists because you come to know him and you develop a relationship with him. I know that sounds like circular logic, but it’s not. We are promised that if we seek Him, we shall find Him. To put that another way, if you don’t spend time and effort searching for Him, you probably won’t find Him.

I highly recommend Fr. Richards’ tape “The Truth” It is not directed towards atheists/agnostics, but I think it would help you see how faith is not real if it belongs to someone else. For faith to be real, it must be your own. All the reasons in the world won’t amount to a hill of beans to you unless you can say that you know God.

For my journey from atheism/agnosticism see my testimony. You’ll see that in my own journey, I had to have an encounter with God before I could finally put my skepticism behind me.

 

[Jessamy]

First of all, thanks to everyone for your replies. I’d like to respond to each of them but unfortunately I’ve had to mostly stop reading/posting and start studying… I have quite a few finals in the coming two weeks. I’ll do a few now and see what I can get back to once I’m done for the semester.

My recommendation, for what it is worth, is to yield the requirement of your brain to the need of your heart. Do you want to believe in God? If you do, believe. Only then will you begin to hear God’s voice and feel God’s presence in those whisperings and signs that have nothing to do with the grammar of the sentence you are now reading. If you don’t want to believe, your desire not to believe simply means you have a longer road to travel than others may have. It doesn’t mean you won’t eventually get to the same place.

I really just don’t understand how you are supposed to do this. I’ve mentioned I tried to pray a few times. I felt like I was talking to myself. Sometimes I really do think I believe, but I always end up with the same doubts. In theory its good, but if I try to put something into practice I end up questioning all over again.

My advice is to spend some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament and let God touch your heart - you won’t be disappointed. I’ll pray for you.

Thanks for your insights… I appreciate the prayers.

I know this is a weak argument, but I know that I went through similar things and the attempt to rationalize the irrational is a never ending battle…

Yes, after all my reading I came to the conclustion that it definitely wasn’t going to be as easy as “this is sound” and “this isn’t”. Thanks for your responses.

And couldn’t resist this one:

Your only real problem is listening to Linkin Park. I mean, it’d be nice if you convert to Christianity, but it’s almost as pressing that we get you spending your bad-mood Sundays with Nirvana instead

You seem to be referring to another poster here, ribozyme, I believe. I don’t like Linkin Park. Nirvana’s okay. I prefer softer alternative rock.

Well, I have a question for you. You mention arguments for God’s existence that you find convincing. Can you point me in the direction of some of them? I have my reasons for believing - I’m not impressed by butterflies so much as my own mental life, especially the will - but I would like to see others. I think that there are good reasons, but plenty of apparently bad ones abound too… though maybe there is wisdom in some of those I don’t see.

I’ll work on putting together a list of sources I referred to. It’s been a couple months so I can’t remember which were best off the top of my head. I have also read “The Problem of Pain” and some others by Lewis; he is pretty good.

 

[John_Taylor]

Hi Jessamy…

How can one be convinced of God’s existence when everything in her upbringing tells her this a load of baloney?

…well, you seem to know now that faith in God’s existence is at least well founded enough for you to admit that “many” of the intellectual arguments are “quite convincing, to a degree I certainly hadn’t expected” - so you can at least question the childhood message you got that God’s existence is “a load of baloney”, correct? Keep that in mind. There’s more to faith in God than you’ve been exposed to so remain open for more.

Where does faith come from if it isn’t gifted to you as a child? I’ve tried to pray a little but I feel mostly like I’m talking to myself.

…try “putting out the fleece” (see Judges 6:36-40)…in other words, ask God to give you a sign and a confirmation of what He wants from you. Approach God with humility and with a child-like trust in His Goodness (He opposes the proud - see Proverbs 3:34 and Mark 10:15)…if you have access to a “Life in the Spirit Seminar” (a Charismatic Catholic Movement offered at some parishes) consider attending and there see if you’re prompted to receive “being prayed over” for the coming of the Holy Spirit into your life…I’ve seen some very dramatic conversions take place but it’s not for everybody…

What I’d like to see are stories from people who’ve come the same way, if there are any here. How did you overcome doubts and prejudices about Christianity?

…I was raised Catholic, lost the faith by reason of sin in my life which culminated with a rather traumatic intrusion into my life by (what I now recognize to be) demons…at the age of twelve I denied God and went on from that time forward to live a life of sensuality and selfishness…in college I embraced atheistic humanism (trying to be a be a better person but without reference to any “standards from God”) only to have my attempts to “be good” dashed when I fathered a child out of wedlock and assisted in having the child aborted. I came face to face with my ability to commit evil. When I recognized the existence of evil it made sense to me that there was an “Absolute Good” - or God - by which evil is determined and judged. It was during all this turmoil that I meet the woman who would become my wife - a woman of deep Christian faith whose love for God and for me guided me back to faith in God.

How did you come to accept the Bible and Church as the real deal?

well, basically through a study of the history of Christianity, especially by reading the writings of the Early Church Fathers…you can compare what they write when they quote Scripture and see how the New Testament writings are “integral” (?)…I’m writing on the run and may not be using the correct term but what it means is that the internal and external evidence for the authenticity of the Gospels are well founded thus giving support for the assertion that Jesus of Nazareth was a real man who suffered crucifixion and yet raised Himself from the dead. This is a whole big area within Catholic Apologetics and it gets pretty technical but studying it convinced me of the Bible and the Catholic Church as being “the real deal”.

Hope this helps

Keep the Faith
jmt

 

[Catholic_Mike]

Quote:
"My recommendation, for what it is worth, is to yield the requirement of your brain to the need of your heart. Do you want to believe in God? If you do, believe. Only then will you begin to hear God’s voice and feel God’s presence in those whisperings and signs that have nothing to do with the grammar of the sentence you are now reading. If you don’t want to believe, your desire not to believe simply means you have a longer road to travel than others may have. It doesn’t mean you won’t eventually get to the same place. "

I really just don’t understand how you are supposed to do this. I’ve mentioned I tried to pray a few times. I felt like I was talking to myself. Sometimes I really do think I believe, but I always end up with the same doubts. In theory its good, but if I try to put something into practice I end up questioning all over again.

Yeah, I’m not sure that one can or even should do that. But I do think there is something to be said for postulating that Christianity is true and seeing what happens. I’m only guessing, but I think prayer is important. You have to ask, though, what you expect out of prayer. Elizabeth Leseur said something along the lines of this: if we could see immediate and clear results of our prayers, we’d all be in serious danger of it all going to our heads. And there’s the whole “God knows what is best” thing, which may sound like an excuse, but it’s a solid point regardless. Anyway, I don’t think you should get discouraged if praying feels like talking to yourself. It’s a different kind of communication you aren’t used to. I bet some people felt absurd when phones first came out and they’d be standing alone in a room talking at a box on the wall, trying to reach the operator.

 

[ribozyme]

In any case, it sounds like you’ve got a real desire for truth and the intellectual curiosity to do as much thinking as this will take, even if there are bits of tedium. It’s difficult to be objective but you sound like you’re making the effort. Your only real problem is listening to Linkin Park. I mean, it’d be nice if you convert to Christianity, but it’s almost as pressing that we get you spending your bad-mood Sundays with Nirvana instead.

Lol… Linkin Park is a reflection of my emotions and sentiments. That is why I enjoy listening to them.

 

[heavensdemon]

I used to be an atheist because I grew up that way. I made friends with everyone and so naturally ended up with some very religious friends. They never pushed anything on me or were annoying about their religion at all. Yet all of them seemed very happy with themselves and their lifestyle choices. Eventually I began to wonder what the big secret was.

I started talking to them and asking questions. They gave me lots of information, as well as links to various sources to back it up. They had a lot of valid points and I slowly started to agree with their reasoning.

I attended church with a few of them and liked it. Settling down on a parish of my own, I have continued to practice the religion since.

What do you guys think of that?

 

[JesusIsTruth]

Yes atheist for a while. The possiblility of losing a future eternity should drive you to seek with a true heart, a humbe and courageous one.

I would go to a local parish, and ask God to show me if he exists.

One day when I day dreamed away, lying down on a pew, i received a frightening vision of a big brain with eyes… true story.

I pushed past this and continued to attend mass without receiving communion, because if you’re not a Catholic you’re not supposed to receive.

I must have had a pure heart at this time, because I received a vision of Christ (the Divine Mercy vision) above a little old lady who was one of the eucharistic ministers that week. It was amazing and so nice of Christ to do that for me.

It took me years of continued questioning to determine that it wasn’t a hallucination, but the search is worth it. If at all else continue to search. God will not disappoint a true heart.

 

[zachh]

Just out of you telling that you’ve been wondering whether or not Christianity is true is a sign that the Holy Spirit has bestowed grace upon you. The same thing happened to me and when I embraced it; my world made sense. Although I didn’t know it at the time, embracing that grace was my first step from Atheism back to Catholicism.

I hope that you come to understand the grace that you have been given is a gift and I hope that you pray that it will fall on other people that are in doubt as well.

 

[MStreeter]

Jessamy,

I was an athiest then an agnostic before I came back to God. There were several personal events in my life that made me choose God, but because you can’t experience those events I’ll just tell you a realization I had which made it easier to begin a life of faith.

1. Faith is the belief in something which cannot be proven… and by proven I mean scientifically. While you cannot prove God you cannot disprove Him either. So either way you choose to go… in faith of God… or in faith of no God… you are still making a leap of faith. The choice to make the leap in either direction is yours.

I, of course, chose to take the leap of faith towards God and it has made all the difference in my life. I can only pray that you take the same leap as I.

Mark

 

[mattkubes]

johncwright.livejournal.com/59241.html

I’m in the middle of writing my finals too, but I just want to reiterate what has already been said…I would highly recommend reading this testimony! And I found some of the comments below the main article (especially those by the author) to be very insightful.

 

[Cranch]

Jessamy-

Have you ever done something and, while you did it, or a little while later, you regretted it? Not because you were inconvenienced or hurt or disappointed, but simply because you thought it was “wrong”? Maybe you were rude to a telemarketer or forgot a birthday or didn’t wait your turn at the deli. Small stuff. No laws broken. Nobody died. Have you thought about where that regret comes from? Why does it come? Rationally, it shouldn’t come. What is it’s purpose? It doesn’t do you any good. Maybe it’s actually causing you anxiety! That can’t be good! Well, you might look at it as a little proof of God. You are a moral agent. Your conscience is proof of that. Animals don’t have a conscience. They don’t worry about being rude. They don’t have regrets. But we’re not animals. We were created by God in His image for His purpose. Where there are moral agents, there must be a morality, or in other words, virtue. Would you expect to find virtue in an unguided universe? What would be the point? After all, the animals get along without it.

One last unoriginal thought: There is the ring of truth in the story of Jesus. After all, who in their right mind would worship as God, and be martyred in their thousands for, a wandering malcontent who ended up beaten and nailed to a tree in a backwater of the Roman empire unless the open tomb was and is a reality?

Keep praying and when you do, remember to listen, also. God hears you. If you listen, you may hear *Him.
*

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I’m a "revert’ meaning I was a baptized cradle Catholic, but went over to agnosticism (i.e. “gutless atheism”) when I was 16. In retropect, the case for disbelief was rather slim, but my late 1960’s–early 1970’s catechism was BAD (and I hear for the most part it’s got even worse!)–concentrating on “socially relevant issues” and practicaly nothing on the historicity or the rationality of the Christian faith in general or the Catholic faith in particular. The priests, nuns, and lay Catholic teachers in my once-a-week religion classes just could’nt handle my posed questions.

My return back to faith was first sparked by the writings of CS Lewis–specifically The Screwtape Letters, though reading about Lewis, Tolkien, and Charles Williams in The Inklings had already informed me about the deep Christian belief of these three extraordinary writers. So, when I met my wife-to-be, a highly intelligent believer herself, the groundwork had been prepared to some extent.

I read more Lewis–actually I read a LOT of Lewis. As Anthony Burgess has stated, Lewis is one of the best sources for someone who wants to be a Christian but is kept from being so by intellectual reasons.

My return to Christianity was first through the Presbyterian (USA) Church–but the liberal exegesis of mainstream Protestantism was increasingly jarring. I considered Eastern Orthodoxy for quite a while (and NEVER considered Fundamentalism!) but when push came to shove (and a dear friends conversion!) lead me reconcile to the Church in November 2001.

Here are some prime resources for intelligent Christian (and Catholic) apologetics:

CS Lewis:
Mere Christianity
Miracles
The Screwtape Letters
The Chronicles of Narnia
The Space Trilogy

Gilbert Keith Chesterton:
Father Brown Collection
Orthodoxy
The Man Who Was Thursday

JRR Tolkien:
The Lord of the Rings
“Leaf By Niggle”

Peter Kreeft:
What About Suffering
The Christian Apologetics Primer
The Philosophy of JRR Tolkien: The Worldview of the Lord of the Rings