Any Ex Mormon Missionaries out there?

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Divine_mercy

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I have had 2 different sets of Mormon Missionaries come to my door and I try to give them my time so we can discuss differing views on Religion.

I am hoping there is a few ex Mormon missionaries turned Catholic out there that can help me understand what they are trained to do. My last few visits they want to give me pamphlets and read them to me or they bring out a stack of flash cards and explained the Mormon idea on the life cycle from preconception to the multi layers of Heaven.

Is the thought that repeated discussions will get people to believe?

I just keep asking them about the “Great Apostasy” and ask them to tell me where Catholics are wrong in their teaching. The best answer to that question that I have gotten so far is the Reformation, which I tell them that we agree upon.

Can someone tell me if this all they do to everyone and it is effective?

It seems very much like the H. Ross Perot method of witnessing to your faith, Wait a second, he got a lot of votes for president, maybe it does work.

I will say that we can learn a lot from the Missionaries, at least they are out there witnessing to their faith, most catholic wont even tell people they are catholic when asked.😦

Help,
 
Bruce R. McConkie, LDS Apostle said in a speech at BYU in 1982:
“Some people) devote themselves to gaining a special, personal relationship with Christ that is both improper and perilous. I say perilous because this course, particularly in the lives of some who are spiritually immature, is a gospel hobby which creates an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude…Another peril is that those so involved often begin to pray directly to Christ because of some special friendship they feel has been developed. In this connection a current (1982) and unwise book, which advocates gaining a special realtionship with Jesus, contains this sentence–quote: “Because the Savior is our mediator, our prayers to through Christ to the Father, and the Father answers our prayers through his Son.” Unquote. This is plain sectarian nonsense…(Y)ou have never heard one of the First Presidency or the Twelve…advocate this excessive zeal that calls for gaining a so-called special and personal relationship with Christ…(S)ome who have prayed for endless hours feel they have a special and personal relationship with Christ that they never had before. I wonder if this is any or much different, however,from the feelings of fanatical sectarians who with glassy eyes and fiery tongues assure us they have been saved by grace and are assured of a place with the Lord in a heavenly abode, when in fact they have never even received the fulness of the gospel. I wonder if it is not part of Lucifer’s system to make people feel they are special friends of Jesus when in fact they are not following the normal and usual pattern of worship found in the true Church”

label me a fanatical sectarian if this is the case, okay?
 
Divine_mercy said:
I have had 2 different sets of Mormon Missionaries come to my door and I try to give them my time so we can discuss differing views on Religion.

I am hoping there is a few ex Mormon missionaries turned Catholic out there that can help me understand what they are trained to do. My last few visits they want to give me pamphlets and read them to me or they bring out a stack of flash cards and explained the Mormon idea on the life cycle from preconception to the multi layers of Heaven.

Is the thought that repeated discussions will get people to believe?

I just keep asking them about the “Great Apostasy” and ask them to tell me where Catholics are wrong in their teaching. The best answer to that question that I have gotten so far is the Reformation, which I tell them that we agree upon.

Can someone tell me if this all they do to everyone and it is effective?

It seems very much like the H. Ross Perot method of witnessing to your faith, Wait a second, he got a lot of votes for president, maybe it does work.

I will say that we can learn a lot from the Missionaries, at least they are out there witnessing to their faith, most catholic wont even tell people they are catholic when asked.😦

Help,
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From what I’ve heard, it’s all a sales presentation divided into a planned six visits. At the heart of it all is an insistent plea that you accept a copy of the Book of Mormon and pray over it, looking for a feeling of assurance from the Holy Ghost that the book is true.

They’re very nice young men. They have to be. They’re trying to sell you something - Mormonism.

They spend 5 days a week in training classes learning how to evangelize, one or two days a week knocking on doors, and have a “free day” on which they are encouraged to do charitable works that will help get them into peoples’ living rooms to talk.

What I ask them about is what they believe the nature of God to be. They deny the Holy Trinity, claiming instead that the Father (Elohim) and the Son (Jesus) are two separate gods, both of which have physical bodies. Jesus is the eldest of Elohim’s spirit-children. Elohim’s planet is Kolob. Jesus’ planet is Earth. The Holy Ghost is a third god which for whatever reason did not get a body yet. They are not one god but three, united in purpose but not in being.

Then I tell them that their gods have as much in common with my God as an alien from outer space, and to pray to their Holy Ghost for assurance about the BoM would be blasphemous.

Nan
 
Nan_S said:
From what I’ve heard, it’s all a sales presentation divided into a planned six visits.
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So what are the 6 visits?

I got the pamphlet on the plan for salvation from Pre-mortal existence to the 3 tiered heaven and outer darkness. What should I expect next, they are planing to stop by this weekend and I would like to be prepared.
 
Divine_mercy said:
So what are the 6 visits?

I got the pamphlet on the plan for salvation from Pre-mortal existence to the 3 tiered heaven and outer darkness. What should I expect next, they are planing to stop by this weekend and I would like to be prepared.
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I was a Mormon missionary at one time. My son is currently serving a Mormon mission in Mexico. I was baptized into the Catholic Church last April. I have no idea what order the missionaries are teaching the discussions in right now. I’m sure at some point you will get a discussion on the Word of Wisdom, tithing and the law of chastity. You might want to ask these Mormon missionaries why the Mormon Church approves of its members having abortions in some circumstances like rape, incest and health of the mother.
 
Sorry, I’ve never been a Mormon, but I’m going to marry an ex-Mormon woman soon, and have learned a few things about the cult. I have before me a pamphlet titled How To Witness To A Mormon, by Jerry and Dianna Benson. I got this thing at a nearby Protestant bookstore. It is published by Moody Bible Institute, which is a Protestant operation, but rather mildly evangelical. Dwight Moody was a very famous preacher of the 19th Century, about on a par with Billy Graham of our own day. Anyways, you might look for this pamphlet. Though it has some distinctively Protestant angles, it contains quite a lot of good, down-to-earth information, including a section on how to lead missionaries in conversation. Contact me via private message. I will give you more info on this, and perhaps find a way to get this copy to you quickly.

One thing you will want to emphasize, though, and I’ve certainly found this to be true in my own face-to-face dealings with Mormons, is your own personal testimony. Mormons are very attentive to personal testimony. They will stop in their tracks and pay rapt attention to anyone who is giving a personal testimony of God’s work and power in his life. Don’t hold back. Let it all out, tears and all. If nothing else, the little missionaries will go away knowing that God has worked powerfully in YOUR life, and this may be just the type of seed that will someday bear fruit in them.
 
Allweather said:
Sorry, I’ve never been a Mormon, but I’m going to marry an ex-Mormon woman soon, and have learned a few things about the cult. I have before me a pamphlet titled How To Witness To A Mormon, by Jerry and Dianna Benson. I got this thing at a nearby Protestant bookstore. It is published by Moody Bible Institute, which is a Protestant operation, but rather mildly evangelical. Dwight Moody was a very famous preacher of the 19th Century, about on a par with Billy Graham of our own day. Anyways, you might look for this pamphlet. Though it has some distinctively Protestant angles, it contains quite a lot of good, down-to-earth information, including a section on how to lead missionaries in conversation. Contact me via private message. I will give you more info on this, and perhaps find a way to get this copy to you quickly.

One thing you will want to emphasize, though, and I’ve certainly found this to be true in my own face-to-face dealings with Mormons, is your own personal testimony. Mormons are very attentive to personal testimony. They will stop in their tracks and pay rapt attention to anyone who is giving a personal testimony of God’s work and power in his life. Don’t hold back. Let it all out, tears and all. If nothing else, the little missionaries will go away knowing that God has worked powerfully in YOUR life, and this may be just the type of seed that will someday bear fruit in them.
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Thank you this does help, unfortunately I think my next visit in Saturday so I do not think I will have time to get this pamphlet, maybe I will contact you offline to get the bullet points.

I also think I need to get the CA book when Mormon’s call.

Any more suggestions would be appreciated.
 
Divine_mercy said:
Thank you this does help, unfortunately I think my next visit in Saturday so I do not think I will have time to get this pamphlet, maybe I will contact you offline to get the bullet points.

I also think I need to get the CA book when Mormon’s call.

Any more suggestions would be appreciated.
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Send me email to pcasey03@comcast.net and I will make some electronic arrangements to get you a copy right away.
 
Nan_S said:
They spend 5 days a week in training classes learning how to evangelize, one or two days a week knocking on doors, and have a “free day” on which they are encouraged to do charitable works that will help get them into peoples’ living rooms to talk.

Nan
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Hi Nan,
I love your posts! I was a Mormon missionary for 2 years in Taiwan from 1977 - 1979. I am now back with the Holy Catholic Church and couldn’t be happier!.

Missionaries first go to the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah for a few weeks if they are going to an English-speaking country, or a longer time if they are going to a foreign-language mission. Also during this time, the young men and women are subjected to some pretty severe indoctrination. I learned very rudimentary Mandarin Chinese in 8 weeks, then was flown to Taiwan. The first night in-country, the Mission Staff dumped us newbies in the middle of Taipei with orders to obtain a list of objects and make it back to the Mission Home by 10 PM. We were scared stiff but somehow got most of the things and made it back to the Mission Home.

For the next two years we knocked on doors and tried to teach people the lessons from 9 AM to 9 PM every day except Monday, which was “Prep day”. On Prep day we were to do our laundry, shopping, write letters home, etc. - in short, all the stuff we didn’t have time to do on the other days.

We got up every day at 7 AM and showered, dressed and had scripture study before going out to knock on doors (called “tracting”). It was during these scripture studies that I began to see that The Book of Mormon was an obvious 19th-century work of fiction and to see that Mormonism was in direct conflict with the Bible. So really my mission was the beginning of my “apostacy” from Mormonism and my return to the Catholic Faith.

Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
Hi Nan,
I love your posts! I was a Mormon missionary for 2 years in Taiwan from 1977 - 1979. I am now back with the Holy Catholic Church and couldn’t be happier!.

Missionaries first go to the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah for a few weeks if they are going to an English-speaking country, or a longer time if they are going to a foreign-language mission. Also during this time, the young men and women are subjected to some pretty severe indoctrination. I learned very rudimentary Mandarin Chinese in 8 weeks, then was flown to Taiwan. The first night in-country, the Mission Staff dumped us newbies in the middle of Taipei with orders to obtain a list of objects and make it back to the Mission Home by 10 PM. We were scared stiff but somehow got most of the things and made it back to the Mission Home.

For the next two years we knocked on doors and tried to teach people the lessons from 9 AM to 9 PM every day except Monday, which was “Prep day”. On Prep day we were to do our laundry, shopping, write letters home, etc. - in short, all the stuff we didn’t have time to do on the other days.

We got up every day at 7 AM and showered, dressed and had scripture study before going out to knock on doors (called “tracting”). It was during these scripture studies that I began to see that The Book of Mormon was an obvious 19th-century work of fiction and to see that Mormonism was in direct conflict with the Bible. So really my mission was the beginning of my “apostacy” from Mormonism and my return to the Catholic Faith.

Paul
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Thank you and welcome home. What a testimony!

In the various places I’ve lived across the US, the Mormon missionaries normally make unsolicited initial contact calls just on weekends; I only recall one evening visit. They have been very respectful of our time and availability. Rule #1 of successful salesmen: show respect for your prospective customer.

The JWs, on the other hand, showed up on any day at any hour of day or evening. One in particular seemed to make me her recurring “special project” at 11AM on days when I was working 12-hour night shifts. She’d bang on the door and bellow until she woke me from a sound sleep and got a (not very polite) response, as if my reaction was the only thing between her and armageddon. Sad.

Nan
 
Get hold of the book “When Mormons Call” by Isaiah Bennett. He was a priest who became a Mormon and then came back to the Catholic faith. I have read the book. It is very clear and simple. And above all it is accurate. I have been a Mormon for over 20 years, a missionary and a bishop. Actually I only disagree with Isaiah on one thing he mentions in his book, and that is were he says the Mormon temple ceremonies are simply boring. I believe they are somewhat more sinister.

One thing the “Elders” or “Sisters” (Mormon missionaries) will do is tell you what the Holy Spirit is and how He witnesses. They will probably read a passage of scripture (from the Book of Mormon or the Doctrine and Covenents) that tells you that when you feel a “burning in the bosom” that this is the Holy Spirit witnessing to you that the things that they (the missionaries) are telling you are true. They are taught to keep a close eye on your face and as soon as they see you with any sort of emotion, that they are to label this for you as the Holy Spirit witnessing to you. Emotion is really all they have to go on.

Also, they will quote Moroni 10:3 to 5:

“3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things, if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how amerciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and bponder it in your hearts.
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.
5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may aknow the btruth of all things.”

They will ask you to read the Book of Mormon and pray about it. They will say that if you ask God saying that the Book of Mormon is true, then if you feel the burning in the bosom, then it is true. If you get a stupour of thought, then you haven’t received a witness. But look at verse 4. It is saying the opposite - “if these things are NOT true”.

So beware of be called upon to rely upon emotion in the face of falsity.

Also stick to a topic. They will try to get you off onto their discussions. Even though they are more fluid than in my days, they will want to set the agenda. Keep to the topic of the “great and universal apostasy”. Catholic Answers has some great materials to help in this area. I believe Patrick Madrid has written a great article.

If you are not fully confident, have someone who is versed in scripture with you. Sometimes arguments can be given by the missionaries, that sound plausible and could leave you floundering for a while. I promise you there is an answer to every single one.

Here’s an argument that I recently discovered. Original sin to a Mormon was a transgression. God put man on earth and commanded him to be fruitful and replenish the earth. But to a Mormon, Adam and Eve could not have children. God then said for them not to partake of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. So to a Mormon they could not obey the first commandment until they knew what sexual relationships were, so they were forced to break the second commandment, God called this a transgression only. So, God basically forced Adam and Eve to sin or to transgress. They would have broken one of the commandments no matter what they did. Does this sould like God to you ??

Best advice ? Get someone versed in scripture to be with you. Do not be afraid if they ask you questions to say that you do not know the answer, but you will find out and come back to them. Then be sure you do.

If you are not “golden” i.e. are not progressing, then they are told to believe that you are not ready to hear and accept the message - not that you see it to be unbiblical. “Teach or terminate” is a phrase often used by the missionaries.

Feel free to post more if you need more advise. There’s a lot of good advice being given by oth posters.

God bless you.

Hal.

PS: I am converting to Catholicism at the moment. Hpe these insights are helpful.
 
christianley said:
…You might want to ask these Mormon missionaries why the Mormon Church approves of its members having abortions in some circumstances like rape, incest and health of the mother.
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Agreed. I have asked leaders of the Mormon church this same question. I am told that it only happens in the rarest of circumstances and that it shows the Father’s love for the mother !!! My reply of course is that for the baby who is killed for the evil deed of another in the example of rape], then the statistics do not mean much. The child is still butchered.

This is one of the oddest allowances of mormonism. Its acceptance by the members probably is a great insight into the church. If the Prophet says something is okay, then it is okay and God’s will. Others are too busy doing family history (geneology) in a futile attempt to save the dead, that they neglect the living - the unborn child.

So, a good question to ask the missionaries. Maybe it might touch their conscience. Maybe it might require them to think outside of the box of their teaching manual. These are good young men and women blinding by a powerful spirit that infuses the LDS Church.

God bless,

Hal.
 
Allweather said:
…

One thing you will want to emphasize, though, and I’ve certainly found this to be true in my own face-to-face dealings with Mormons, is your own personal testimony. Mormons are very attentive to personal testimony. They will stop in their tracks and pay rapt attention to anyone who is giving a personal testimony of God’s work and power in his life. Don’t hold back. Let it all out, tears and all. If nothing else, the little missionaries will go away knowing that God has worked powerfully in YOUR life, and this may be just the type of seed that will someday bear fruit in them.
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But caution. Only say what you actually believe and actually feel. We are not trying to “win” at any cost. Remember (and I am not suggesting the current poster meant this) that we cannot attempt to achieve good things through instrinsically false acts. But the poster makes a good point about testimony and feelings. The missionaries will say that they know by the Holy Spirit that mormonism is correct. You perhaps, me and others can say also by the Holy Spirit that mormonism is incorrect. Now we are both justifying our beliefs by the same Spirit - we both cannot be right. Hence, we need something else - and what is that ? The Bible and history would be my reply. Now we have them. None of the major distinguishing Biblical evidences of mormonism (that they claim support them), are infact supported by the Bible:
  • the stick of Joseph and Judah (Ezekiel)
  • a voice from the dust (Isaiah)
  • other sheep (Matthew ?)
  • baptism for the dead (1 Corinthians)
God bless,

Hal.
 
What I have a little trouble understanding is why Catholics would want to talk to them at all. I suppose if one is fully prepared and has it in mind to convert them, it might serve some purpose. Otherwise, to me, it’s like letting a siding salesman into my home and listening to his spiel. If I don’t need siding, why would I do it? Nothing good could come of the event, and something bad might. If I do need siding, I really ought to be talking to a known building contractor or some store like Lowe’s that sells the product and arranges the installer.

When Mormons or JWs or anybody like that (sometimes Evangelicals do) comes to my door, I tell them I’m not interested and close (not slam) the door. Most will just go away quietly. To those who won’t, I politely tell them they are not welcome on my property and inform them that, having been told that, from that moment on, they are trespassers. I think they have been instructed about that by their trainers; know that it’s trouble from there, and invariably go away.

My wife, who engages them slightly more than I do, tells them “I’m Catholic and I’m not interested in changing my religion.” They must be prepared for that or something too, because that’s always the end. They excuse themselves and go away.

Having said that, I will admit that my big, loveable but not-very-bright Great Pyrenees, who wouldn’t hurt a fly but loves to bark, (He’ll even bark at birds that land in the yard, and I have seen him bark at grasshoppers.) filters most of them out before they reach the door.
 
What’s the mystery? LDS Missionaries are doing the same thing that they have been doing since the time of Joseph Smith; Inviting others to come onto Christ and testifying that His church has been restored. That’s it plain and simple. No underhanded sales program. No trying to trick someone into joining a cult. Just honest young men and women sharing their heartfelt convictions. If you disagree with their views that’s fine. Sincere gospel discussion and sharing testimony of our Savior should be edifiing to all involved.
 
BCPoulsen said:
What’s the mystery? LDS Missionaries are doing the same thing that they have been doing since the time of Joseph Smith; Inviting others to come onto Christ and testifying that His church has been restored. That’s it plain and simple. No underhanded sales program. No trying to trick someone into joining a cult. Just honest young men and women sharing their heartfelt convictions. If you disagree with their views that’s fine. Sincere gospel discussion and sharing testimony of our Savior should be edifiing to all involved.
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Glad to read that the LDS church has abandoned its policy of ‘milk before meat.’
 
utlm.org/booklist/titles/missionarylessons_xb133.htm

You can pick up a copy of their Missionary Manual at that link. I would suggest getting a copy, and studying it, writing down stomper questions as you go. So, when they come to the door you can ask them questions like do you believe that God the Father has a body? If one were to take Psalms 91:4 literally than god is a big chicken. They will quote verses about God having ears, eyes, etc., they are all figurative expressions that they choose to take literally to support their doctrine that God was once a man.

Psalm 91:4 (King James Version)

He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.
 
 
BCPoulsen said:
What’s the mystery? LDS Missionaries are doing the same thing that they have been doing since the time of Joseph Smith; Inviting others to come onto Christ and testifying that His church has been restored. That’s it plain and simple. No underhanded sales program. No trying to trick someone into joining a cult. Just honest young men and women sharing their heartfelt convictions. If you disagree with their views that’s fine. Sincere gospel discussion and sharing testimony of our Savior should be edifiing to all involved.
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One of my Korean friends, Cathy, was talking to the Mormon missionaries in town, because she’s so desperate to practice her English. I cautioned her that at some point they may stop talking to her if she doesn’t show any interest in converting to the LDS church. I told her that they are not talking to her simply to be her friend, but because they want something from her, and that she should never forget that.

Sure enough, not long after I had that conversation with Cathy, the missionaries informed her that they were no longer interested in talking to her unless she took their literature and came to church.
Cathy’s friend, who was also practicing her English, took the literature, but did not go to church. They told Cathy they would talk to her friend, since she took their literature, but they would not talk to Cathy, since she did not.

How far would they have taken this? “Your friend is going to be baptized, so we’ll talk to her, but since you aren’t going to be baptized, we won’t talk to you.”
 
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