Any Heavy Metal fans in here?

[fbl9]

The cover art for Dio’s Holy Diver has never sat well with me. The scene appears to be hell, with a nerdy Catholic priest bound in chains being tormented by Satan.

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actually it looks more like satan is throwing the priest into water,hence the name holy diver…i do agree the cover doesn’t set well either…didn’t care till a few yrs ago though…

 

[ChadS]

The cover art for Dio’s Holy Diver has never sat well with me. The scene appears to be hell, with a nerdy Catholic priest bound in chains being tormented by Satan.

geocities.com/byrdtribute/DIOhd.gif

This raises an interesting point I was thinking about the other day. How much is too much in heavy metal music? Heavy metal has always pushed limits and boundaries when it comes social mores, including religion. Often times the religion that comes under attack is Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular.

Among heavy metal music is there an “acceptable” level in the lyrics that you will tolerate or what line does it need to cross before it doesn’t sit well anymore?

As for me things like Slayer’s “God Hates Us All” and their last album gives me icky feelings. But, something like “Hymn 43” by Jethro Tull just flys under my radar without bothering me too much either way.

What say you all?

ChadS

 

[Scottgun]

As for me things like Slayer’s “God Hates Us All” and their last album gives me icky feelings. But, something like “Hymn 43” by Jethro Tull just flys under my radar without bothering me too much either way.

What say you all?

ChadS

Earlier, we talked about the more extreme metal genres, and one poster said that they weren’t really satanic, but just doing it to “nark people off”. I pointed out that in the first place, trying to nark people off isn’t a particularly good intention and more importantly, directly uttering ugly blasphemy is wrong no matter what your intention is. So while I can tolerate questions and criticism of actions by religious in music, direct hostility and attacks are dealbreakers. “Hymn 43” would likely be the former (although I can’t fully recall the lyrics), “God Hates Us All” would be the latter.

 

[Joe_5859]

Earlier, we talked about the more extreme metal genres, and one poster said that they weren’t really satanic, but just doing it to “nark people off”. I pointed out that in the first place, trying to nark people off isn’t a particularly good intention and more importantly, directly uttering ugly blasphemy is wrong no matter what your intention is. So while I can tolerate questions and criticism of actions by religious in music, direct hostility and attacks are dealbreakers. “Hymn 43” would likely be the former (although I can’t fully recall the lyrics), “God Hates Us All” would be the latter.

That’s pretty much how I feel about it as well.

 

[Scottgun]

Here’s some disturbing news: Nightwish singer Anette walked off stage. It first the smoke was blamed, but later it seems the “We love Tarja and we hate Anette” thing became too much to bear.(from Metal Storm here: metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=7645)

Nightwish were forced to cut Monday night’s (November 10) concert in Belo Horizone, Brazil short after the group’s lead singer Anette Olzon suddenly started “crying” at the end of the song “The Poet And The Pendulum” (about six tracks into the group’s set) and walked off stage, leaving the rest of the band to finish the song with bassist/vocalist Marco Hietala attempting to handle some of the lead-vocal parts. The group reportedly played two more cover songs and ended the show, explaining that Anette is going through a difficult phase in her life, and that she was really sad.

Fan-filmed video footage of Olzon walking off can be viewed here and here.

But, in the meantime, Anette Olzon sent a press release to Brazilian media where she clearified the reasons behind her sudden “collapse” which caused her to leave the stage in the middle of the Nightwish show in Belo Horizonte, Brazil on November 10th 2008.

Olzon stated that the smoke on stage got on her vocal chords to make her lose her voice. She was trying to sing until she reached the point she couldn’t do it anymore and therefore was “forced” to leave the stage.

Nightwish has always had a very good and close relation to their fans in Brazil and the thought of disappointing the fans was too great for Anette. The band tried to buy some time for Anette to regain her voice back but it didn’t. Nightwish ended up playing 2 more songs after Anette left the stage but were forced to stop the show after that.

After the show, people stayed in the venue to get some kind of explanation to what happened. After a while, promoter Eric de Haas from Dynamo Productions came on stage to tell the fans that the concert was over and Nightwish was already back on their hotel.

It is reported that the next show Nightwish did the next day in the capital of Brazil (Brasilia) went well and the band also included the song “The Poet And The Pendulum” on their setlist.

UPDATED

As posted on Blabbermouth, Nightwish mainman/keyboardist Tuomas Holopainen said the following, speaking to webzine O Povo Online about the incident: “[Anette] freaked out because she couldn’t handle the different mannerisms of the fans here. There were a lot of people screaming the former vocalist’s name, making obscene gestures (with the middle finger). Normally she can shake that stuff off, she has good self-esteem, but it’s been hard to deal with the fans and the critics. I guess it was a sudden breakdown; she just… lost her mind for a second. It’s kind of scary, and we all feel for her and understand what she is going through. We hope she can put her mind at ease and make the rest of the shows. So far it’s been fine; she’s feeling much better.”

Tarja Turunen got fired from Nightwish in October 2005. In May 2007, the band officially announced the addition of their new vocalist, Anette Olzon.

 

[Joe_5859]

Here’s some disturbing news: Nightwish singer Anette walked off stage. It first the smoke was blamed, but later it seems the “We love Tarja and we hate Anette” thing became too much to bear.(from Metal Storm here: metalstorm.ee/events/news_comments.php?news_id=7645)

My question is, if these people hold such a disdain for Anette, why’d they bother coming to the show? Did they think Tarja was going to surpise them and take the stage instead?

It’s one thing to prefer one singer over another, but to heckle her while on stage? That seems poor form.

I hear Nightwish was touring with Sonata Arctica. I just recently started getting into this band. They’re very cool. Their most recent album “Unia” is phenomenal from beginning to end. Does anyone else listen to them?

 

[ChadS]

If Nightwish’s fans are so upset about the old singer leaving nearly three years ago why are they still going to their concerts. Seems to me they have a choice to make and they aren’t willing to make it.

ChadS

 

[Joe_5859]

If Nightwish’s fans are so upset about the old singer leaving nearly three years ago why are they still going to their concerts. Seems to me they have a choice to make and they aren’t willing to make it.

ChadS

Exactly! (I guess we were writing our posts at the same time ).

I know we all like Tarja, but it’s been three years! It’s time to come to terms with it and move on. Either accept the new singer or don’t patronize the band anymore. Do they think the band is going to reconcile with Tarja and bring her back?

 

[ChadS]

Exactly! (I guess we were writing our posts at the same time ).

I know we all like Tarja, but it’s been three years! It’s time to come to terms with it and move on. Either accept the new singer or don’t patronize the band anymore. Do they think the band is going to reconcile with Tarja and bring her back?

I’m not really familiar with Nightwish. I have their latest album and thought it was pretty good. At the same time I’m not really one to hold band lineup changes against the band or the new members. Sometimes it’s hard to get behind a band if one of their founders or if the one that made the group famous leaves.

Was Judas Priest really the same without Halford? Did Black Sabbath lose something when Ozzy and eventually Geezer and Bill Ward left? Yeah probably. But, I think Anthrax got along just fine without Dan Spitz and the lead singer (I can’t remember his name) as they did with Jon Bush.

Of course there are cranks out there (and I happen to know one or two) that thought Metallica went down hill after Cliff died. So the question is what did replacing the lead singer mean to Nightwish? Did they get better or worse or no change? Perhaps the band feels more cohesion or creative with Anette than Tarja.

Perhaps those fans that don’t like Anette would feel more comfortable with a band like the Rolling Stones – they haven’t had a new member in nearly 40 years.

ChadS

 

[Scottgun]

.

I hear Nightwish was touring with Sonata Arctica. I just recently started getting into this band. They’re very cool. Their most recent album “Unia” is phenomenal from beginning to end. Does anyone else listen to them?

They are on my wish list, but the only problem for me is deciding where to start. Many say the early stuff is much better and Unia is a major departure from it, but there are those who love Unia like you do, so I may just end up throwing a dart at the board.

 

[Joe_5859]

They are on my wish list, but the only problem for me is deciding where to start. Many say the early stuff is much better and Unia is a major departure from it, but there are those who love Unia like you do, so I may just end up throwing a dart at the board.

I think wherever the dart falls, you really can’t go wrong with this band. I haven’t found Unia to be that much of a departure from their other material. But I have only been listening to their albums for a short time, so I’m probably not the best judge of that. Ask me again in a year.

If it helps, they have a track or two from each of their five albums on their MySpace page. The two tracks from Unia on there are pretty good, but my favorite tracks for the album (“It’s Won’t Fade” and “The Harvest”) aren’t on there.

When it comes to getting CDs from new bands, I usually either start from the beginning and work my way forward, or start with the most recent and work backwards. I favored the former method when I was younger and determined to have the complete collection of every band I listened to. Now that I’m older, I tend towards the latter as I don’t have the time or money to purchase or listen to every CD I would like to.

 

[Joe_5859]

I’m not really familiar with Nightwish. I have their latest album and thought it was pretty good. At the same time I’m not really one to hold band lineup changes against the band or the new members. Sometimes it’s hard to get behind a band if one of their founders or if the one that made the group famous leaves.

Was Judas Priest really the same without Halford? Did Black Sabbath lose something when Ozzy and eventually Geezer and Bill Ward left? Yeah probably. But, I think Anthrax got along just fine without Dan Spitz and the lead singer (I can’t remember his name) as they did with Jon Bush.

Of course there are cranks out there (and I happen to know one or two) that thought Metallica went down hill after Cliff died. So the question is what did replacing the lead singer mean to Nightwish? Did they get better or worse or no change? Perhaps the band feels more cohesion or creative with Anette than Tarja.

Perhaps those fans that don’t like Anette would feel more comfortable with a band like the Rolling Stones – they haven’t had a new member in nearly 40 years.

ChadS

It is interesting how band member changes make-or-break certain bands, while others seem relatively unaffected.

I sometimes wonder if the band didn’t oust Tarja because she was so popular with the fans that she was the focal point. I think that, musically, the band is as good as it ever was. But since Anette is not an opera singer like Tarja was, she doesn’t sit well with many fans. The manner in which Tarja was kicked out of the band probably doesn’t help either.

 

[Scottgun]

It is interesting how band member changes make-or-break certain bands, while others seem relatively unaffected.

I sometimes wonder if the band didn’t oust Tarja because she was so popular with the fans that she was the focal point. I think that, musically, the band is as good as it ever was. But since Anette is not an opera singer like Tarja was, she doesn’t sit well with many fans. The manner in which Tarja was kicked out of the band probably doesn’t help either.

Ok, I keep telling myself I don’t care that much about Nightwish, but the whole Tarja Debacle appeals to the soap-opera fan in me. And I can’t think of a bigger earthquake in the metal world since “Diamond” Darryl from Pantera got shot. (Yes, I know he changed to “Dimebag”, but I’ll never accept it! )

 

[celticsfan1983]

Has anyone ever checked out “unblack metal?” en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unblack_metal

Seems like there are some Christians doom and black bands, like Frosh Like Ashes, Horde, Antestor (a great band) and others who can really rock out in this same genre but hold strong to the faith. These bands definitely need our prayers, as their faith makes it hard to be accepted by their peers, and their music makes it hard to be accepted by mainstream Christians.

Same Doom Metal sound from Antestor, with these lyrics, “You Are My Hope, O Lord, My Trust, O Lord, Since Boyhood, From Birth I Have Leaned Upon You, My Protector Since I Left My Mother’s Womb.”

Very inspiring

 

[Joe_5859]

Ok, I keep telling myself I don’t care that much about Nightwish, but the whole Tarja Debacle appeals to the soap-opera fan in me. And I can’t think of a bigger earthquake in the metal world since “Diamond” Darryl from Pantera got shot. (Yes, I know he changed to “Dimebag”, but I’ll never accept it! )

Indeed!

“Power Metal” all the way!

View attachment 4583

 

[ChadS]

Ok, I keep telling myself I don’t care that much about Nightwish, but the whole Tarja Debacle appeals to the soap-opera fan in me. And I can’t think of a bigger earthquake in the metal world since “Diamond” Darryl from Pantera got shot. (Yes, I know he changed to “Dimebag”, but I’ll never accept it! )

Okay, up until a few hours ago I didn’t know Nightwish had another singer and I could’ve cared less how or why she left the group. Now, inquiring minds have to know. Are there any links out there that shed light on some of this saga? Are we entering Roth/Hagar territory with the opinions on these two singers?

I was lucky enough to see Pantera when they toured with Black Sabbath (w/ Ozzy) a few years ago. This had to have been right before they broke up because I think Phil was already working on some of his side projects like Down and Superjoint Ritual.

ChadS

 

[Joe_5859]

Okay, up until a few hours ago I didn’t know Nightwish had another singer and I could’ve cared less how or why she left the group. Now, inquiring minds have to know. Are there any links out there that shed light on some of this saga? Are we entering Roth/Hagar territory with the opinions on these two singers?

Well, one night after a show, the band handed her an open letter informing her that she was being kicked out, a letter which they also posted on their website. They accused her husband and her of becoming too commercially-minded. Here’s the letter:

Open Letter to Tarja

Tarja was shocked and disagreed with their assessment and released a letter of her own:

Tarja letter to the band, fans, and media

I think many fans thought Tarja got the raw end of the deal. In light of this, it probably didn’t matter who was going to replace her. Whoever it was would not have been well received.

 

[Scottgun]

Well, one night after a show, the band handed her an open letter informing her that she was being kicked out, a letter which they also posted on their website. They accused her husband and her of becoming too commercially-minded. Here’s the letter:

Open Letter to Tarja

Tarja was shocked and disagreed with their assessment and released a letter of her own:

Tarja letter to the band, fans, and media

I think many fans thought Tarja got the raw end of the deal. In light of this, it probably didn’t matter who was going to replace her. Whoever it was would not have been well received.

Thanks for those links. I think that is where the soap-opera aspect comes in. Just as the smoke explanation got revised, so it is likely the stuff in the letters is just the tip of the iceberg. No, I’d say not as big as the VanHagar controversy, but since music has become so fractured into sub-genres, this is the best (or worst) we’ve got. Just click on any Anette Nightwish videos on YouTube. You will see that they have upteen bazillion comments–almost all battling (often viciously) over Tarja and Anette. Of course the other aspect that drives this is that it is about two somewhat attractive girls in metal. Which goes back to the nerd thing I talked about.

 

[Joe_5859]

Thanks for those links. I think that is where the soap-opera aspect comes in. Just as the smoke explanation got revised, so it is likely the stuff in the letters is just the tip of the iceberg. No, I’d say not as big as the VanHagar controversy, but since music has become so fractured into sub-genres, this is the best (or worst) we’ve got. Just click on any Anette Nightwish videos on YouTube. You will see that they have upteen bazillion comments–almost all battling (often viciously) over Tarja and Anette. Of course the other aspect that drives this is that it is about two somewhat attractive girls in metal. Which goes back to the nerd thing I talked about.

Nerd thing, indeed!

You’re right in that it’s probably only the tip of the iceberg. I find it kind of sneaky that they did this after the final concert of the tour, which they recorded and then they released as the “End of an Era” DVD. But, then again, one would expect them to wait until after the tour was over so as not to cancel any shows. And perhaps the DVD had been in planning for a long time. Either way, I’m sure there’s more to the story than any of us knows, so I try not to hold it against either party.

 

[Catholic_Kenpo]

Ok, so all this talk about Nightwish and Sonata Arctica got me curious. Since I was going to be at work late last night anyway, I busted out my iPhone and looked up SA on youtube (it’s blocked at work, and for good reason). Not bad. Some of it was better than others, and I think it could grow on me. After a few songs, I did a search for Nightwish. Again, it’s not what I’m used to, but I think I could emjoy it. Wait a minute, I’ve heard this one before! I can’t remember where… oh, yeah! There was some kind of parody or something that I heard, probably several years ago. I can’t remember anything else, so it’s probably futile to search for it. I decide to give it a shot anyway on the off chance the parody has the song name in its description. Search: Wishmaster. Whaddaya know? There it is! Wishmaster: The Misheard Lyrics. I proceed to lol for the next few minutes while realizing that this song is absolutely incredible. I may end up having to pick it up at some point.

Cliff Notes version: Youtube parody of Wishmaster may end up convincing me to buy a Nightwish album.

-CK