Any ideas why some Protestants reject the trinity and some accept it?

[confusedgirl]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

 

[ltwin]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

You need to be more clear. Most Protestants do not consider Non-Trinitarians as Protestants or Christians.

 

[confusedgirl]

Well I guess what I’m asking is where does this idea come from? Why would an Anglican welcome the belief of the trinity and then an apostolic refuse it? does it have to do with the age of the church? Also why would some churches not accept non trinitarians as Christians and they themselves consider themselves 100% Christians?

 

[Mount_Carmel]

For most folks who percieve themselves as ‘Christian’ the Nicene Creed seems to cover the bare bones of required belief:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];

Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;

He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;

From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

And in the Holy Ghost. …

So it is a case of ONE GOD within which are THREE PERSONS/PERSONAS/Realities.

 

[ltwin]

Well I guess what I’m asking is where does this idea come from?

What idea? Protestant Christianity is based in Nicene Christianity. Some heterodox groups, like Unitarians and Oneness Pentecostals, are on the margins of Protestantism (Unitarians have affinities with the mainline Protestants but they may not even consider themselves Christians anymore and Oneness Pentecostalism with Trinitarian Pentecostalism) but it is a real question as to whether they would even count as Protestants. Then there are groups like the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (the Mormons) and Jehovah’s Witnesses who aren’t considered Christians at all.

Why would an Anglican welcome the belief of the trinity and then an apostolic refuse it?

Are you referring to “Apostolic Pentecostals”? If so, it would be better if you said something like “Oneness Pentecostals” so that everyone knows what you are talking about. Simply labeling a group “apostolic” is highly ambiguous since every Christian group considers themselves “apostolic” in some way or another.

As to your question, Anglicans believe in the Nicene Creed. Oneness Pentecostals have rejected the Nicene Creed as inconsistent with their reading of Scripture. They do not acknowledge the existence of a Trinity in the Bible (they see the 3 different modes or titles for one God rather than 3 persons in one) and therefore, they reject the Nicene Creed and the doctrine of the Trinity.

does it have to do with the age of the church?

Not at all. Modalism (also known as Sabellianism) is an ancient heresy.

Also why would some churches not accept non trinitarians as Christians and they themselves consider themselves 100% Christians?

Because the Trinity is very important theology that has implications for almost every other aspect of the Christian faith. The farther one deviates from the Trinity, the harder it is to maintain an accurate conception of who God is.

 

[Dorothy]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

The bottom line is that the Catholic Church has a divinely appointed Magisterium (teaching authority) that our Lord Jesus Christ put into place. That means that the Church cannot err with regard to the teaching of faith and morals.

The errors in other denominations occur because they do not believe in the Magisterium.

Catholics have a three-legged stool, so to speak. 1. Sacred Scripture, 2. Magisterium (teaching authority), and 3. Tradition with a capital “T”. (small “t” tradition is for disciplinary reasons, and can be changed.)

Sola Scriptura does not stand up all by itself. (picture a one-legged stool.)

Our Lord Jesus Christ did not leave us orphans! Thanks be to God for the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church!

Lord help us all to follow you more closely!

 

[johnnyc176]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

Maybe not so much an outright rejection of the Trinity but the way the Trinity is presented? Some change the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit to Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier presumably to avoid using the masculine names. That would not be a valid baptism.

 

[JerryZ]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

I will venture my opinion on this, which is that those traditions that have rejected the Trinity have done so as the logical result of “Sola Scriptura” taken to extreme.
In the Bible you will not find the word “Trinity” any where.
However you will find the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The mistery that they are one has baffled theologians for centuries and many have stumbled on this doctrine. It even caused the rift between the East and the West Churches.

Peace!

 

[eggsbenedictine]

Well I guess what I’m asking is where does this idea come from? Why would an Anglican welcome the belief of the trinity and then an apostolic refuse it? does it have to do with the age of the church? Also why would some churches not accept non trinitarians as Christians and they themselves consider themselves 100% Christians?

Unitarianism is to deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, that is why they are not Christian.

 

[po18guy]

The private interpretation of scripture alone, divorced from the sacred Tradition, has lead to this error.

 

[PRmerger]

So I was looking into the topic of baptism and the church has baptism that are accepted and a few that are rejected. I was curious to see if my past baptism was accepted and I stumbled upon a list of baptisms that are accepted or rejected. My baptism was of
course rejected but for a similar reason many of the other baptisms were rejected
It was not a trinitarian baptism. I was unaware of this because I was 10 when this baptism happened and I hardly knew anything about the actual teachings of that church. But as I read on it wasn’t just that church either. My mom is Protestant and does believe in the trinity. Does anyone have any idea why some Protestants reject the trinity and others accept it?

It comes from reading the Bible outside of the guidance of the Church which gave us this Bible.

 

[PRmerger]

The private interpretation of scripture alone, divorced from the sacred Tradition, has lead to this error.

Indeed.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are fond of asking, “If you lived on a desert island and a Bible was dropped in your lap, would you be able to glean the concept of a Trinitarian god from its pages?”

And their point is a valid one.

It is indeed true that if one who had been isolated from churches/traditions read the Bible without any lens whatsoever, he would NOT be able to extract the concept of a Trinitarian god.

However, as Catholics we ought to look askance at this view presented by the JWs and say, 'Why would I want to do that? Why would I want to read the Bible without any guidance as to how it should be interpreted? In fact, we Christians never have to be in that position of reading the Bible as if it were dropped in on us from the heavens without any context."

 

[confusedgirl]

Maybe not so much an outright rejection of the Trinity but the way the Trinity is presented? Some change the words Father, Son and Holy Spirit to Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier presumably to avoid using the masculine names. That would not be a valid baptism.

Oh boy this is sounding like a mess now. It seems as though there is a bigger split then. My grandmother is catholic and I went to catholic school. The point of view of the trinity and my grandmother stand the same. My mother also stands with this idea. However, this Apostolic church I went to (they didn’t really call themselves Apostolic Pentecostals and they were much different from the past Pentecostal churches I went to) actually went as far as to say there is no trinity. They taught God was sole authority and Jesus can’t be prayed to because Jesus was just a man. (Yes you read that right) so is that to say we all have the ability to die and come back in 3 days? Well no. Which is why that belief puzzled me so much.

As for the Nicene Creed to reject it would mean you reject believing in on God, you reject that God made heaven and Earth, you reject Jesus is his son, ect. basically you deny the gospels and pretty much the entire New Testament.

So I guess that means you aren’t Christian. Well that answers my question a little. But why do they call themselves Christians? They obviously don’t reject all of what the creed says but can they call themselves Christians? Can we call them Christians?

 

[confusedgirl]

The private interpretation of scripture alone, divorced from the sacred Tradition, has lead to this error.

Oh so it’s a sola scriptura thing? But even sola scriptura can support the fact there is a trinity. I’d better read more in this church them. I spent a good portion of my life there and now theyve really lost me. Well, they never really had me.

 

[TRH1292]

Protestants believe in the Trinity. Those groups that reject the Trinity are mostly considered non-Christian fringe groups or separate religions all together.

 

[confusedgirl]

It comes from reading the Bible outside of the guidance of the Church which gave us this Bible.

And then it results in false doctrine and people are fed incorrect beliefs. Well that makes a lot of sense. I’ve seen it not just in that church I used to be at but in many others

 

[PRmerger]

Oh so it’s a sola scriptura thing? But even sola scriptura can support the fact there is a trinity. I’d better read more in this church them. I spent a good portion of my life there and now theyve really lost me. Well, they never really had me.

It’s a idea borne out of reading the Bible without any guidance from the Church.

When one does that, one gets all sorts of fanciful, erroneous, weird and bizarre theology.

 

[confusedgirl]

For most folks who percieve themselves as ‘Christian’ the Nicene Creed seems to cover the bare bones of required belief:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father [the only-begotten; that is, of the essence of the Father, God of God], Light of Light, very God of very God, begotten, not made, being of one substance with the Father;

By whom all things were made [both in heaven and on earth];

Who for us men, and for our salvation, came down and was incarnate and was made man;

He suffered, and the third day he rose again, ascended into heaven;

From thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

And in the Holy Ghost. …

So it is a case of ONE GOD within which are THREE PERSONS/PERSONAS/Realities.

So to reject the trinity is to reject the creed. To reject the creed is to reject Christianity. Then those who don’t follow any of the above beliefs are sounding very backwards to me

 

[confusedgirl]

It’s a idea borne out of reading the Bible without any guidance from the Church.

When one does that, one gets all sorts of fanciful, erroneous, weird and bizarre theology.

So you mean one person just picked up a bible, had their own interptetation and decided to start their own church? That sounds sort of like how a cult gets started

 

[ltwin]

However, this Apostolic church I went to (they didn’t really call themselves Apostolic Pentecostals and they were much different from the past Pentecostal churches I went to) actually went as far as to say there is no trinity.

Oneness Pentecostals teach there is no Trinity. They believe that “the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily” in Jesus (which is true, but not in the way they understand it). To them, there is one God whose name is “Jesus”. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are simply titles or modes that Jesus manifests as at different times, according to this belief.

This is why Oneness Pentecostals baptize in the “Name of Jesus” rather than in the name of the Trinity.

They taught God was sole authority and Jesus can’t be prayed to because Jesus was just a man. (Yes you read that right) so is that to say we all have the ability to die and come back in 3 days? Well no. Which is why that belief puzzled me so much.

Hmm . . . Not sure. Maybe its a version of “You must pray to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ?” But if they were “Jesus Name” Pentecostals that wouldn’t make sense. You’d expect them to have no problem praying to Jesus, since “the Father” is just a title for Jesus. Sounds like they were a weird bunch.

As for the Nicene Creed to reject it would mean you reject believing in on God, you reject that God made heaven and Earth, you reject Jesus is his son, ect. basically you deny the gospels and pretty much the entire New Testament.

No. They don’t deny the gospels or God. They just deny the doctrine of the Trinity because they do not believe it is actually in the Bible.

So I guess that means you aren’t Christian. Well that answers my question a little. But why do they call themselves Christians? They obviously don’t reject all of what the creed says but can they call themselves Christians? Can we call them Christians?

They can call themselves anything they like. It’s one of the blessings of living in a free country. They have the right to refer to themselves as Christians if they want to. You don’t have to refer to them as Christians, of course. But if they believe that they are Christians and decide to call themselves Christians, there isn’t anything anyone can do about it.