Any other couples who choose NOT to practice NFP/Fertility Awareness Methods? (Everyone welcome!)

[kamz]

I must finally and charitably beg you to stop forcing your personal interpretation onto others, please.

I cannot tell you how cruel your posts have been to me and others in my situation. To take these beautiful Scripture quotes and twist them into something you can bash me over the head with is so completely hurtful.

As I sit here struggling through a very wanted, but extremely difficult pregnancy, your constant barrage of untruths about Catholic teaching have been some of the most hurtful I have ever encountered. If I had believed your personal interpretation of Scripture 15 years ago I would have had a hysterectomy. My beautiful son and unborn daughter would not exist.

To insult the “science” of NFP is to insult God’s very creation. This science is written on our bodies! This isn’t something we invented against His divine will. This is something He gave us, and due to our own sinful nature we nearly lost all knowledge. To compare the knowledge of fertility with an artificial barrier or another assault on the marital act using withdrawal, is so amazingly rude. For you to decide that my husband and I abstain for selfish reason is the height of presumption. Try walking in his shoes, caring for an ill wife and son while trying to to hold a full time job. I cannot begin to tell you of his personal sacrifice in trusting God to have children with me in the first place.

Abstaining from sexual relations is sometimes the most loving thing one can do. For another to decide that we were abstaining during fertility just to lust for one another during infertility is absurd! Would you define the few times during this difficult pregnancy where I have been healthy enough to engage in the marital act, to be based on satisfying a lust or just seeking pleasure? Is it only okay in your book now that I am pregnant? What about the year and a half where we faced infertility? Was charting then for lustful intent? If we ever had sex when we were not fertile during that time would you define that as lust too?

I beg you. Please submit to the Church in Her teachings. Please stop this hurtful diatribe. If you don’t have the circumstances where charting is necessary then you are truly blessed. There are others in this thread who share that luxury, yet they have not been hurtful. They, I commend and thank. The sheer number of days and weeks I have been bedridden during this last six months of pregnancy has gone beyond counting. None of us know anymore. I have the most wonderful, loving family and friends to support me. The only reason any of us have been able to keep going is that we FULLY trust in God. This baby, and all babies, are by His design.

May God continue to bless all of you who are able to live without a chart. Please offer up anything you can for those of us who struggle to have even one or two precious blessings in our lives.

Awesome Post:thumbsup:

 

[Convert_in_99]

Let’s not debate NFP here. OK?

I, the OP, know that both are acceptable to the church. It’s a choice each couple must prayerfully make. “shawn34_a” has prayerfully decided against it, as have I. Many of you have prayerfully decided to use NFP. There’s nothing wrong with either.

This thread was designed to simply meet others who have prayerfully discerned to not use NFP. If you use NFP, I welcome your stories too. I want everyone to feel included, but, in order to do that, we must all quit debating NFP. It is acceptable under serious circumstances. We know that. Let’s quit saying it isn’t. We also know that there is nothing wrong with putting our entire trust on God’s Providence. Let’s quit saying that is not an accepatble option too.

Thanks!

 

[LJN21]

I must finally and charitably beg you to stop forcing your personal interpretation onto others, please.

I cannot tell you how cruel your posts have been to me and others in my situation. To take these beautiful Scripture quotes and twist them into something you can bash me over the head with is so completely hurtful.

As I sit here struggling through a very wanted, but extremely difficult pregnancy, your constant barrage of untruths about Catholic teaching have been some of the most hurtful I have ever encountered. If I had believed your personal interpretation of Scripture 15 years ago I would have had a hysterectomy. My beautiful son and unborn daughter would not exist.

To insult the “science” of NFP is to insult God’s very creation. This science is written on our bodies! This isn’t something we invented against His divine will. This is something He gave us, and due to our own sinful nature we nearly lost all knowledge. To compare the knowledge of fertility with an artificial barrier or another assault on the marital act using withdrawal, is so amazingly rude. For you to decide that my husband and I abstain for selfish reason is the height of presumption. Try walking in his shoes, caring for an ill wife and son while trying to to hold a full time job. I cannot begin to tell you of his personal sacrifice in trusting God to have children with me in the first place.

Abstaining from sexual relations is sometimes the most loving thing one can do. For another to decide that we were abstaining during fertility just to lust for one another during infertility is absurd! Would you define the few times during this difficult pregnancy where I have been healthy enough to engage in the marital act, to be based on satisfying a lust or just seeking pleasure? Is it only okay in your book now that I am pregnant? What about the year and a half where we faced infertility? Was charting then for lustful intent? If we ever had sex when we were not fertile during that time would you define that as lust too?

I beg you. Please submit to the Church in Her teachings. Please stop this hurtful diatribe. If you don’t have the circumstances where charting is necessary then you are truly blessed. There are others in this thread who share that luxury, yet they have not been hurtful. They, I commend and thank. The sheer number of days and weeks I have been bedridden during this last six months of pregnancy has gone beyond counting. None of us know anymore. I have the most wonderful, loving family and friends to support me. The only reason any of us have been able to keep going is that we FULLY trust in God. This baby, and all babies, are by His design.

May God continue to bless all of you who are able to live without a chart. Please offer up anything you can for those of us who struggle to have even one or two precious blessings in our lives.

We haven’t every really charted but it makes me so mad to see people try and make others that need to use NFP feel like there not trusting in God. The Church teaching on human sexuality is so beautiful.

Something tells me if they were every in really difficult situation they would change there tune really fast.

 

[kamz]

When someone says that nfp can be used for serious reasons would a serious reason also be that financially that family can’t afford another child at that moment? My parents always used NFP and after my brother and sister were born 13 months apart and my dad was the only one working, my parents did the math over and over and they used NFP for about 5 years as they were so financially strapped, even though they would have loved to have me right away it would have been irresponsible as my dad was just starting his own business and they didn’t even have health insurance and could barely make their car and house pymts… but once my dad’s business got going they stopped using NFP and had me… well my mom got toxemia and almost died after having me and her Catholic doctor said “no more kids” so they used NFP until my mom had a hysterectomy five years later (due to periods that caused her to soak her sanitary pads within minutes of using one) my parents were very careful with their money and very modest, if they could have had more kids without going bankrupt they would have… so my question is this… is ok to use NFP to avoid when you know that you will have to go into serious debt or on welfare if you have another child? And I don’t mean people who avoid so they can have a big fancy house and new cars, clothes, etc. my parents were not like this and have Never ever been like this.

 

[LJN21]

When someone says that nfp can be used for serious reasons would a serious reason also be that financially that family can’t afford another child at that moment? My parents always used NFP and after my brother and sister were born 13 months apart and my dad was the only one working, my parents did the math over and over and they used NFP for about 5 years as they were so financially strapped, even though they would have loved to have me right away it would have been irresponsible as my dad was just starting his own business and they didn’t even have health insurance and could barely make their car and house pymts… but once my dad’s business got going they stopped using NFP and had me… well my mom got toxemia and almost died after having me and her Catholic doctor said “no more kids” so they used NFP until my mom had a hysterectomy five years later (due to periods that caused her to soak her sanitary pads within minutes of using one) my parents were very careful with their money and very modest, if they could have had more kids without going bankrupt they would have… so my question is this… is ok to use NFP to avoid when you know that you will have to go into serious debt or on welfare if you have another child? And I don’t mean people who avoid so they can have a big fancy house and new cars, clothes, etc. my parents were not like this and have Never ever been like this.

I think avoiding kids for financial reasons can be a very fine line but, Yes I think it can be a legitimate reason to use NFP

 

[Convert_in_99]

When someone says that nfp can be used for serious reasons would a serious reason also be that financially that family can’t afford another child at that moment? My parents always used NFP and after my brother and sister were born 13 months apart and my dad was the only one working, my parents did the math over and over and they used NFP for about 5 years as they were so financially strapped, even though they would have loved to have me right away it would have been irresponsible as my dad was just starting his own business and they didn’t even have health insurance and could barely make their car and house pymts… but once my dad’s business got going they stopped using NFP and had me… well my mom got toxemia and almost died after having me and her Catholic doctor said “no more kids” so they used NFP until my mom had a hysterectomy five years later (due to periods that caused her to soak her sanitary pads within minutes of using one) my parents were very careful with their money and very modest, if they could have had more kids without going bankrupt they would have… so my question is this… is ok to use NFP to avoid when you know that you will have to go into serious debt or on welfare if you have another child? And I don’t mean people who avoid so they can have a big fancy house and new cars, clothes, etc. my parents were not like this and have Never ever been like this.

Serious financial reasons, like the one you mentioned seems a valid reason to use NFP. I am certain your parents prayerfully discerned this.

HOWEVER, wanting a new car, when yours is working fine…just out of style is NOT a reason to use NFP. Wanting an upgrade on a house, when you already have enough space for everyone, is NOT a reason to use NFP.

So your parents were fine. Others, sadly, may “claim” to have financial troubles…but are really just making excuses to get more things over more kids.

 

[LJN21]

Serious financial reasons, like the one you mentioned seems a valid reason to use NFP. I am certain your parents prayerfully discerned this.

HOWEVER, wanting a new car, when yours is working fine…just out of style is NOT a reason to use NFP. Wanting an upgrade on a house, when you already have enough space for everyone, is NOT a reason to use NFP.

So your parents were fine. Others, sadly, may “claim” to have financial troubles…but are really just making excuses to get more things over more kids.

But but … I NEED that new boat!

 

[Convert_in_99]

But but … I NEED that new boat!

Um…unless you live on an island…or you are a fisherman…by trade not hobby…I think you can manage without it for a while. You can’t take your boat to heaven…but you can show off your sweet child in heaven.

 

[sanctareparata]

We don’t use NFP either. We learned it mostly with the intent to help us conceive. And it worked.

We have 3-under-3 presently and still have no intent to use it, partially because we feel:

1. we have no good reason to use it
2. I’m 33 and we’d like more kids before it becomes harder to conceive
3. we would like a bigger family than we have now and
4. frankly, I don’t like charting one bit.

Sometimes the sheer responsibility of these children scares me - more kids = more worry. But God is giving us the graces to handle it.

Thanks, God.

 

[Rob_s_Wife]

I, the OP, know that both are acceptable to the church. It’s a choice each couple must prayerfully make. “shawn34_a” has prayerfully decided against it, as have I. Many of you have prayerfully decided to use NFP. There’s nothing wrong with either.

Amen! And I second that!

It’s so good to know you’re not alone (even if I am smack dab in the second LEAST catholic spot of the bible belt.)

**Oh no you don’t! that spot is taken up where I live! **

We also except (well at least most of us) all children God chooses to give us when we enter into the marital act. It seems silly to say it’s OK to breastfeed to space children but not to accept not entering into the marital act when serious need arises. Not entering into the marital act is also a natural way that one does not become pregnant. It would really seem that intention is the key. If one is breastfeeding like crazy for the sould purpose of avoiding a pregnancy, it would seem that this wouldn’t be “welcoming any children God chose to give me”. Just a thought.

I agree. Also, eco bf-ing does not always extended infertily either. I’m lucky if I get 6 months.

Okay. I agree because the church says so. BUT here’s what I don’t get and never have understood. Is it really “accepting” if you are purposely avoiding? I mean, it seems more like an agreement not to reject the gift, but I question how “welcoming” it is.

Let’s say I really don’t want and don’t think I can handle more expenses. So I budget and log daily expenses carefull to avoid over extending myself. I get up to go to work and notice the front end of the van was hit and now I must pay for a tire and some front end repairs. Well I’m none to thrilled. I ACCEPT that this is just something that happens in life and get the work done. Heck, let’s say I take the van in and because of the cost of repairs, they total out my vehicle insurance gives me the cost of brand new vehicle. Yippee! Brand new baby van. I’m now a surprised and content woman. But would anyone say I had been “open” and “welcoming” to getting my van totaled? Would anyone blame me for not being willing to risk damage again?

I guess this is what I don’t get. How accepting and welcoming can it be to get pregnant and think, "Well cr, so much for NFP." They may accept and love the baby, of course, but surely we can’t claim they are open and welcoming? That’s like putting the house under lockdown, and if someone still manages to break-in, saying you are open and welcoming to it?**

**I’m not saying this to be mean, I’m just honestly baffled at how it can be considered open? I’m not disagreeing with the Church. She says it, it’s good enough for me. Even if I don’t “get it”. Not that it matters, I zero desire to ever use NFP. **

it makes me so mad to see people try and make others that need to use NFP feel like there not trusting in God.

Something tells me if they were every in really difficult situation they would change there tune really fast.

**No, you don’t know that and I think that is just as uncalled for. I have zero issue with you or anyone else using NFP as the church teaches. But no one is required to use it. Ever. Many people could be in the same situation and not turn to NFP. That does not make them or you irresponsible parents or lesser catholics. **

**You know what makes me mad? Someone who uses NFP getting ticked because they aren’t getting support from a thread specificly supporting and about couples who have chosen not to use NFP. Why does it bother NFP users when non-nfp couples talk about not using nfp and seeking support for NOT using nfp? **

**All that aside, I don’t like the tone of shawn34_a’s post either. Dude, don’t wanna use NFP? Then don’t use it. But the Church does allow it, whether you like it or not. **

I think avoiding kids for financial reasons can be a very fine line but, Yes I think it can be a legitimate reason to use NFP

**I agree. “Serious” is left vague for a reason. What is serious for me, may not be for another . And we are all given the option to brave the serious anyhow. Even if we could all agree on what is truely without doubt serious, no couple is required to use NFP for then either. **

 

[kamz]

We don’t use NFP either. We learned it mostly with the intent to help us conceive. And it worked.

We have 3-under-3 presently and still have no intent to use it, partially because we feel:

1. we have no good reason to use it
2. I’m 33 and we’d like more kids before it becomes harder to conceive
3. we would like a bigger family than we have now and
4. frankly, I don’t like charting one bit.

Sometimes the sheer responsibility of these children scares me - more kids = more worry. But God is giving us the graces to handle it.

Thanks, God.

Awww… what an awesome witness to our faith you are

 

[RWMorris]

We knew about NFP but chose not to use it. We had four children in ten years. It was worth it. My only regret is that I hadn’t had more children!

 

[LJN21]

No, you don’t know that and I think that is just as uncalled for. I have zero issue with you or anyone else using NFP as the church teaches. But no one is required to use it. Ever. Many people could be in the same situation and not turn to NFP. That does not make them or you irresponsible parents or lesser catholics.

My point was there are serious reason some one would not want to get pregnant (risk to mother baby etc) as a Catholic our only moral option is to completely abstain or use very conservative NFP. The last thing couples need in this situation is someone thumping them on the head with a bible telling they just need to trust in God more.

No one practicing NFP I see is complaining about not getting enough support in this thread. Someone made the claim NFP was not moral and people are standing up for the Church’s teaching on the matter.

 

[whatevergirl]

Hi Convert…do you know when you ovulate, though? I did use NFP…and it became confusing. My husband and I were NFP challenged …totally messed up my ovulation cycle…we gave it up because the calendar became a third bed partner. Too stressful. We just…well, you know. You have mentioned that you have had some health issues lately…so, that could contribute to your cycle being thrown off. Even the common cold can cause fertility issues.

 

[Convert_in_99]

Hi Convert…do you know when you ovulate, though? I did use NFP…and it became confusing. My husband and I were NFP challenged …totally messed up my ovulation cycle…we gave it up because the calendar became a third bed partner. Too stressful. We just…well, you know. You have mentioned that you have had some health issues lately…so, that could contribute to your cycle being thrown off. Even the common cold can cause fertility issues.

Well…we have opted not to learn it for now. We want God to give us the children He wants to give, the exact moment He wants to give them. If I would ever have to learn NFP, due to my health most likely, I am pretty irregular. However, I do produce lots of mucous…so that might be chartable.

 

[whatevergirl]

Well…we have opted not to learn it for now. We want God to give us the children He wants to give, the exact moment He wants to give them. If I would ever have to learn NFP, due to my health most likely, I am pretty irregular. However, I do produce lots of mucous…so that might be chartable.

I’m already lost. lol See? This is why we stopped followed it. lol
I agree with you–leave it in God’s hands…it will happen according to His Divine plan.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I’m already lost. lol See? This is why we stopped followed it. lol
I agree with you–leave it in God’s hands…it will happen according to His Divine plan.

YEP!

 

[LittleDeb]

Let’s not debate NFP here. OK?

I, the OP, know that both are acceptable to the church. It’s a choice each couple must prayerfully make. “shawn34_a” has prayerfully decided against it, as have I. Many of you have prayerfully decided to use NFP. There’s nothing wrong with either.

This thread was designed to simply meet others who have prayerfully discerned to not use NFP. If you use NFP, I welcome your stories too. I want everyone to feel included, but, in order to do that, we must all quit debating NFP. It is acceptable under serious circumstances. We know that. Let’s quit saying it isn’t. We also know that there is nothing wrong with putting our entire trust on God’s Providence. Let’s quit saying that is not an accepatble option too.

Thanks!

I agree with you. I really do. One of the reasons I subscribed to this thread was because I also promote “winging it” with as much enthusiasm as promoting NFP. My whole premise is that if a couple doesn’t need to chart, they are highly blessed! Those blessings result in more blessings, those beautiful people we call children.

What would be great to see is more couples who are able to welcome children at any time promote that. Many people do, but some still come off as "we’re better than you because we don’t chart, " or “we’re trusting God more by not charting.” Both of these attitudes have hurt how people look at Church teaching. I find that all of my dear friends who wing it find a lot of support in the NFP community if they want it.

We who have to chart are thrilled that there are those who don’t need to. I mean how awesome is that? I compared it in another thread that a non-charting couple is able, at a moments notice, to invite anyone who comes along right into their home. What an amazing witness you all are for feeding the hungry and clothing the naked! (We all come into the world that way! )

How amazingly blessed you are! Please support each other in that. Talk about what you have sacrificed to be where you are. I have no misconceptions that you all are just rolling in money and can just pop out of bed every morning able to hit the ground running. You are real people who have struggled and sacrificed to be where you are. Just like the rest of us.

Please celebrate that. Please give me more stories to tell people on the success of surprise! Truly, surprise is the only difference in this discussion. I am trying to end contraception. You all are my very first line of strategy against it. We NFP folks fall without you. Thank you for your witness.

 

[Convert_in_99]

I agree with you. I really do. One of the reasons I subscribed to this thread was because I also promote “winging it” with as much enthusiasm as promoting NFP. My whole premise is that if a couple doesn’t need to chart, they are highly blessed! Those blessings result in more blessings, those beautiful people we call children.

What would be great to see is more couples who are able to welcome children at any time promote that. Many people do, but some still come off as "we’re better than you because we don’t chart, " or “we’re trusting God more by not charting.” Both of these attitudes have hurt how people look at Church teaching. I find that all of my dear friends who wing it find a lot of support in the NFP community if they want it.

We who have to chart are thrilled that there are those who don’t need to. I mean how awesome is that? I compared it in another thread that a non-charting couple is able, at a moments notice, to invite anyone who comes along right into their home. What an amazing witness you all are for feeding the hungry and clothing the naked! (We all come into the world that way! )

How amazingly blessed you are! Please support each other in that. Talk about what you have sacrificed to be where you are. I have no misconceptions that you all are just rolling in money and can just pop out of bed every morning able to hit the ground running. You are real people who have struggled and sacrificed to be where you are. Just like the rest of us.

Please celebrate that. Please give me more stories to tell people on the success of surprise! Truly, surprise is the only difference in this discussion. I am trying to end contraception. You all are my very first line of strategy against it. We NFP folks fall without you. Thank you for your witness.

Aww…thanks! But the only sacrifices we’ve had to make so far is our wills. We have yet to conceive our first darling.

 

[LittleDeb]

Aww…thanks! But the only sacrifices we’ve had to make so far is our wills. We have yet to conceive our first darling.

I know and my prayers are with you. Sacrifice of the will is the first one and the biggest one. In this day and age you could go out and make a designer baby. But you don’t. Why? Because you are willing to never bear children rather than disappoint God. Wow! The infertile (and nominally fertile like me) and adoptive parents are also an incredible witness to surprises from God. SeekerJen and you and others are constantly in my prayers. I have tried to offer up every moment of this difficult pregnancy for all of you. You would all be reveling in the pain I wake up with every morning. You would move heaven and earth to be in as much pain as I am. That is truly humbling for me. Sometimes that is the only thing that has gotten me through the day.

I also subscribe to these threads to keep me from strangling the nearest contracepting couple who are so proud of their “stuff” and their child-free lives. Wing it couples remind me that contraception is NOT winning. We NFP folks are constantly being told were are just using an alternative to contraception. You wing it couples are proof that God’s design can work perfectly. I am thankful that you exist.