Any questions about Jewish religion, culture, or history?

[Isa_Almisry]

what does the first qiblah have to do with jerusalem.

The Muslims used to bow to Jerusalem when they prayed.

i have heard many converts from islam say that jerusalem is not mentioned in the qu’ran and i am sure they know what they are talking about.

No, evidently they don’t.

why not a temple?

Read Hebrews.

maybe that could still be part of God’s plan for the jewish people.

The Talmud records that during the last 40 years (i.e. the time from the Crucifixion to the Temple’s destruction, HINT, HINT) the Temple doors opened of their own accord, the lamps went out, etc.

Yes. European. Very.

If Christinas believed in the coming of a Prophet, or if the Bible was based on the Dharma, or if Master Kong and not the Prophet Ezra edited the Old Testament, you might have had a point. But Muhammad fulfills no role, Buddha’s enlightment is itself an illiusion according to Yhwh, and having Isreal’s wisdom literature Confucius does nothing for us.

Now, the Jews claim to await the messiah who has already come. The New Testament so firmly based on the Old (as the soicologist Sparks shows, it seems the majority of Hebrews accepted it) that the rabbis had to stick benediction 12 into the amidah to expel the Christians from the synagog and engage in counter polemic in the Talmud, and had to meet and Jabneh to reformulate the canon (rejecting the LXX, which up to that time had been regarded as inspired, the Talmud itself stating it was the fulfillment of Noah’s blessing that Japheth live in Shem’s tent) and the text (as shown by the Dead Sea Scrolls) shaded against those parts that proved too easy for the Christians to proof text.

Now, the Talmud (Yoma 30) says that for 40 years before the destruction of the Temple the scarlet cord (indicating Israel’s sins were not forgiven from the sacrifice) came up, the lamps went out every night, every night, for 40 years, the doors of the Holy of Holies swung open of their own accord, etc. Consult Matthew 27:51 for the explanation.

As He said, “It is fiinished.” And the veil of the Temple was rent in two. How can patching it back be part of God’s plan? Matthew 9:16.

we have the vatican.

Actually, St. Peter’s Chair at Rome is at St. John of Lateran. St. Peter’s belongs to the Patriarch of Constantinople.

 

[reen12]

All of those passages are based on distortions, the early Christians worked to make them fit Jesus. A person who truly knows Jewish teaching and belief knows what those passages actually refer to.

All of those passages can be explained from the Jewish POV at

faithstrengthened.org/FS_TOC.html

Thank you for that link.

reen12

 

[Isa_Almisry]

i disagree with you isa. i think you do care. i think you also care that the mosque remains on the temple mount.

No, I don’t particularly care about anything the Quran says.

Personally, I think the Dome of the Rock is, for aesthetics, the most beautiful building in the world (Agia Sopia would be I think if fully restored), but it wouldn’t bother me a bit if it was moved (Agia Sophia would be a different story). I’m more worried about getting the Cathedral of Damascus back.

As for the mosque remaing, the problem is that those most committed to moving it either hell bent on starting Armageddon, annihilating the Palestians, or both. Blessed are the Peacemakers.

 

[reen12]

Jews who genuinely know and have been raised in traditional Judaism never fall for it.

It’s interesting to note, I think, that Saul of Tarsus spent most of
his time, as an evangelist, among the Gentiles - who would
have had little or no knowledge of Torah.

In fact, Saul of Tarsus is known as the Apostle to the Gentiles.

reen12

 

[reen12]

Catholicism, quite understandably, has the saying:
Ubi Petrus, ibi ecclesia.
‘Where Peter is, there is the Church.’

Members of His chosen people, from mellenia ago - to our own day, express the truth.
Ubi Torah, Deus verus ibi est.
‘Where Torah is, there is the true God.’

God as One, not tripartite [three persons in one deity.]

reen12

 

[Isa_Almisry]

what does the first qiblah have to do with jerusalem. i have heard many converts from islam say that jerusalem is not mentioned in the qu’ran and i am sure they know what they are talking about.

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ

“ Glory to He (God) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque [Al-AqSa], whose precincts We did bless (Yusuf Ali’s translation).

 

[anon52328184]

No, I don’t particularly care about anything the Quran says.

Personally, I think the Dome of the Rock is, for aesthetics, the most beautiful building in the world (Agia Sopia would be I think if fully restored), but it wouldn’t bother me a bit if it was moved (Agia Sophia would be a different story). I’m more worried about getting the Cathedral of Damascus back.

As for the mosque remaing, the problem is that those most committed to moving it either hell bent on starting Armageddon, annihilating the Palestians, or both. Blessed are the Peacemakers.

i agree that the agia sophia si a beautiful building. i don’t find the dome of the rock attractive at all. i am not familiar with the cathedral of damascus.

and i am not talking about doing anything that would cause its destruction as that most certainly would start armageddon. i just don’t believe it belongs there.

 

[anon52328184]

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ

“ Glory to He (God) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque [Al-AqSa], whose precincts We did bless (Yusuf Ali’s translation)./QUOTE

are you catholic, isa, you seem to defend islam and not care about what right the Jewish people have to the temple mound.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ

“ Glory to He (God) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque [Al-AqSa], whose precincts We did bless (Yusuf Ali’s translation).

are you catholic, isa,

See my profile

you seem to defend islam

LOL. I have to post this on some other threads. The Muslims will love it.

What, pray tell, have I defended of Islam?

and not care about what right the Jewish people have to the temple mound.

None.

 

[anon52328184]

be my guest.

 

[reen12]

Verus Israel, would you please explain the nature of, and the
consequences of, Lashon Hara?

Thank you.

reen12

 

[anon52328184]

They’re only growing among Gentile Christians who like things Jewish, and people of partial or secular/nonreligious Jewish backgrounds.

Jews who genuinely know and have been raised in traditional Judaism never fall for it.

i have a friend who raised her son in a traditional jewish home and when her son grew up he converted to mormonism, so why couldn’t someone else who was raised jewish convert to messianic judaism? in israel i hear it is even growing. you use the words -
“never fall for it” like it is a made up story. what makes you so sure that Jesus is not the messiah?

 

[anon52328184]

deborahaz;4192236:

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَى بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلاً مِّنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ

“ Glory to He (God) Who did take His servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the farthest Mosque [Al-AqSa], whose precincts We did bless (Yusuf Ali’s translation).

when was the mosque in jerusalem built? it still doesn’t say jerusalem.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

when was the mosque in jerusalem built? it still doesn’t say jerusalem.

It isn’t know when al-AqSaa was built: the Frankish monk Arculf in 679-82, i.e. within fifty years of Muhammad’s death and the conquest of Jerusalem, states that a mosque was there. Btw, al-AqSaa is not the Dome of the Rock, with which it is often confused.

As for Jerusalem, let’s make a comparison: it is only the mention of Babylon by St. Peter in his epistle that is the only Biblical reference that he was in Rome. But it doesn’t say Rome.

 

[anon52328184]

well, i lived in spain in 1972-1973 and i travelled in southern spain and saw the islamic influence on the architecture. i saw the alhambra which is beautiful. islamic architecture is very beautiful as is arabic handwriting. i know the muslims were in southern spain for many years and influenced the spanish language, the music, etc.

the dome of the rock and the al - aqsa mosque might be beautiful, it also could be legend that al-aqsa mosque, known as the farthest mosque, was the actual site or that the story was even true. even though al-asqa might mean the farthest, how do you know it was in jerusalem. since the muslims had conquered the holy land, i am sure they were quick to lay claim by building their religious structures where previous religious structures had been. i still believe the temple mount is more than likely the platform where the second temple stood.

they wanted to make their mark.

i know there is a jewish extremist group that would like to destroy the islamic structures on the temple mount, but that is not the answer. most jewish people realize that. the muslims do terrible things to the holy tombs of the patriarchs and matriarchs of the jewish people and if the jewish people would do such things to any muslim holy sites, they would be killed and there would be mass riots.

i pray for israel and the jewish people all of the time. they are stoic and have to put up with a lot. they have a right to live in the land promised to them by G-d. the muslims will never be satisfied with the amount of land that israel turns over. it will never be enough.

 

[Spirithound]

waits patiently for V.Israel to return

 

[Isa_Almisry]

well, i lived in spain in 1972-1973 and i travelled in southern spain and saw the islamic influence on the architecture. i saw the alhambra which is beautiful. islamic architecture is very beautiful as is arabic handwriting. i know the muslims were in southern spain for many years and influenced the spanish language, the music, etc.

btw, since you brought it up: many point out that the Great Mosque of Cordoba has been converted into a cathedral, oblivious that the mosque was built on the spot of the destroyed cathedral, the bells melted into the lamps for the mosque.

the dome of the rock and the al - aqsa mosque might be beautiful, it also could be legend that al-aqsa mosque, known as the farthest mosque, was the actual site

actual site? That’s like trying to locate the site of the Book of Mormon. It didn’t happen. It’s made up.

or that the story was even true. even though al-asqa might mean the farthest, how do you know it was in jerusalem.

The Muslim tradition since the earliest times says so.

since the muslims had conquered the holy land, i am sure they were quick to lay claim by building their religious structures where previous religious structures had been. i still believe the temple mount is more than likely the platform where the second temple stood.

Btw, it was the city garbage dump when the Muslims got there.

they wanted to make their mark.

Yes, the Dome of the Rock is explicitely so.

And the Muslims know that. al-Maqdisi (the “Jerusalemite”) tells how he criticized the building of the Dome of the Rock and other buildings in Jerusalem, but his uncle pointed out that many Muslims, dazzled by the beauty and glory of the Churches (remember, that is what converted St. Vladimir’s envoys), had converted. The inscriptions on the Dome are explicitely anti-Christian (btw, the Quranic verses are not the same as the Quran has them now, so much for the unchanged preserved Quran).

Another aside: the images have crowns, the image of the dominance of Islam over the lands it conquered. Since Islam has always been VERY cruciphobic, to replace the Cross on the Spanisn and Roman crowns, used crescents instead.

Ironic how this has become the symbol of Islam.

i know there is a jewish extremist group that would like to destroy the islamic structures on the temple mount, but that is not the answer. most jewish people realize that. the muslims do terrible things to the holy tombs of the patriarchs and matriarchs of the jewish people

Are you speaking of Hebron. I’ve been there. What are you talking about.

and if the jewish people would do such things to any muslim holy sites, they would be killed and there would be mass riots.

Like a shootout during services?

i pray for israel and the jewish people all of the time. they are stoic and have to put up with a lot.

And Palestine and the Arabs don’t?

they have a right to live in the land promised to them by G-d. the muslims will never be satisfied with the amount of land that israel turns over. it will never be enough.

You are aware that not all Muslims are Arab (actually Arabs are a minority) and not all Arabs are Muslims?

When God sent His Son, He got out of the real estate business. What right are you specifically talking about?
Never satified? If someone took your country would you?

The answers to the last questions might derail this thread, which I don’t want. Please, if you want to respond, open a thread and post a link here.

 

[Valke2]

Verus Israel, would you please explain the nature of, and the
consequences of, Lashon Hara?

Thank you.

reen12

It is a general prohibition against hateful/hurtful/gossip/speech.
It is likened to murder because, like murder, once hurtful words are spoken, they cannot be undone. There are many categories under the umbrella of Lashon Hara and Jewish law addresses them in great detail. (i.e., speech that attacks one’s profession, what to do if someone is speaking lashon hara, etc., )

The most famous example in the Torah of Lashon Hara is when Miriam speaks against Moses and his wife, and is subseqently struck with leporsy.

 

[reen12]

You’re more than welcome. I’m glad you found my response useful.

A “messiah” literally is “one who is anointed.” In the context of Jewish socio-political history, a messiah is someone who arises to liberate the Jews and restore us to the sole sovereignty of our law. “The” messiah is understood to be an individual who will liberate us from our current exile, where we are subject to laws that are intrinsically opposed to our own, and resume our civil and religious institutions (e.g. the Temple, which is a house of prayer for all nations)

…Whenever we find ourselves in a state of socio-political subjugation (bound under the sovereignty of anything but our own law), we await a “messiah” - someone to liberate us from these unfortunate conditions…

I re-read your post, Verus Israel, and I have a question.
If I understand, correctly, Israel is a secular state.
Here’s what I do not understand, when you refer to ‘our law.’
Is the Torah held to be a ‘filling out’ of the Mosaic Law?
Is Leviticus a statement of Mosaic Law, and the Torah
the further explication of this Law, in the sense of further laws
presented, based upon the Mosaic Law, found in Leviticus?

I get confused, here. When I think Torah, I think Mosaic Law,
but I don’t think that I truly understand the relationship between
the two. Are the 613 mitzvot found in Leviticus, or did the
number of mitzvot increase, over time?

I have a 2nd question, and I’ll post that in another post.

Thank you for taking the time to address questions.
I do appreciate this.

reen12

 

[reen12]

It is a general prohibition against hateful/hurtful/gossip/speech.
It is likened to murder because, like murder, once hurtful words are spoken, they cannot be undone. There are many categories under the umbrella of Lashon Hara and Jewish law addresses them in great detail. (i.e., speech that attacks one’s profession, what to do if someone is speaking lashon hara, etc., )

The most famous example in the Torah of Lashon Hara is when Miriam speaks against Moses and his wife, and is subseqently struck with leporsy.

Thank you, Valke2. The reason that I posed the question was,
that I at least understood that Lashon Hara was held to be
a very serious wrong.

If you would have the patience, I do have a question on how
Judaic thought views suffering - in this sense:

In Catholicism, there occurs the term ‘redemptive suffering.’

Suffering is seen as having great spiritual value, for one can
offer up one’s suffering, in union with that of Christ’s, and
this offered up suffering may well help save other human beings,
in terms of their eternal salvation.

So this is what I do not understand:
For those who do not hold that there is a world to come,
how does one endure lifelong suffering, if illness is much present?
I suppose another way of saying this is:
If one has to negotiate, all life long, with a great limitation of some
kind, how does one not become bitter at God, if this is the only
world that there is?
I ask this because I could not reply to this question, if another
asked me what Judaic thought was, in terms of the view of
lifelong limitation, which brings suffering, if there is no afterlife.

I hope that I have asked this clearly enough.
Thank you, for any assistance that you can give to me,
in terms of understanding Judaic thought, in this.

reen12