Any thoughts on the debates?

[HomeschoolDad]

I hear you. The only advantage I have, for which I have and will continue take heat for, is that I’m Pro-Life. But, I think legal abortion is a necessary tool for us to control it.

I know this is contradictory and it’s definitely not orthodox Catholic teaching, but hear me out. Without legal abortion we have no way to set standards on how late, what methods, and conditions are admissible. I know this sounds clinical, but if our efforts cannot prevent a baby being killed, we at least can set when it is allowed and make it done as competently and quickly as possible.

Feel free blast me now…

I, for one, am not going to “blast” you. Your proposal actually has a fairly sound internal logic to it. However, the only problem is that we are talking about the murder of innocent, defenseless children. If it were something less than that, I could consider getting behind your way of thinking.

Take for instance prostitution. Now, mark my words, I am not advocating either prostitution or its legalization. However, there are countries that legalize and regulate it for similar reasons. If I am understanding correctly, both Aquinas and Augustine were willing to tolerate it, to avoid greater evils. In today’s world, we have what are called “incels” — angry, frustrated young men (and some perhaps not so young) who lack the social capital and personal attributes to find what they regard as a suitable partner, and hence remain both celibate and very, very unhappy about it. This discontent has boiled over into public violence on occasion. Then you have “men going their own way” or MGTOW, who, while not necessarily “incels”, have given up on women and are bitter about it. Should men such as these have a legal, regulated, relatively safe outlet which, while sinful, averts greater evils — rape, violence against women, even staying home and indulging in self-pleasure, pornography, and perversion, which ends up making them even worse off? Aquinas and Augustine might have said yes. Has human nature changed since then? Not all such men are going to have the spiritual disposition to embrace unwanted celibacy and see in it the cross selected by Almighty God to help them gain holiness and salvation. They should, but as you point out, we live in a fallen world.

I would quibble, though, about one thing you say. You point out that “immigration has been shifting social norms and introducing different cultural values”. Some of these changes might actually make abortion less accepted. Immigrants from the Hispanic countries are either Catholic or have embraced various flavors of evangelical Christianity. In either case they are less likely to favor abortion.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Next time you watch Public Television (which presents some very liberal programs!), take a look at the ending credits, and read the names of all the wealthy people whose foundations donated funding for the program you just enjoyed.

Public broadcasting is actually very balanced and I much prefer it — I don’t like being “sold to”. I will admit, and this may be all in my mind, that it does have a vaguely socialistic feel, but then again so do public libraries. We Americans are conditioned to look favorably upon what is commercial and profitable, what is loud, showy, and attention-getting. PBS and NPR have all kinds of programs, some of which are liberal, simply because some Americans are liberal. It reflects the nation as a whole.

Jeopardy would make perfect sense on PBS, though the cash prizes would have to be far more modest. (And then the show wouldn’t be as much fun anymore, would it? Everything stopped in our home at 7:30 pm when James Holzhauer was winning night after night!)

 

[Joseph159]

This has probably already been said: the Democrat party is not pro choice. It is pro infanticide. There is NO moral case to vote for any Democrat. This is not the Democrat party of JFK, FDR, or even Carter. It’s a far left anti catholic party. The Republicans are lame. Phony and spineless. They don’t deserve votes either. But faced with a choice between the two, I’d probably vote for the party that is not at war with catholic teaching.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Not nonsense.
The GOP is there to control the masses for the rich.
Every thing the GOP does is predicated on keeping the average, working class citizen down.
If the Democrats were smart, politically, they would be Pro-Life. That would give the GOP nothing to campaign on except for cutting taxes to solve all problems in the world. That, and calling all non-GOPers socialists.
By the way, people are no socialists just because they want a living wage and affordable health care.

 

[Peeps]

PBS and NPR have all kinds of programs, some of which are liberal, simply because some Americans are liberal. It reflects the nation as a whole.

I absolutely agree with your statement.

A few months before the election, I watched a thought–provoking “Frontline” that presented biographies of Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

Secy of State Clinton, to put it bluntly, had an abysmal childhood. Her father criticized everything about her. She was never good enough for him. There was very little love in the home.

As early as her teen years, she was already reading Alinsky and other controversial politicians/authors, and she had arrived at a goal to one day become President of the United States. This goal never left her (and I think she still harbors a dream of being the President), and her obsession with the goal explains so many of the decisions that she has made all her life. Some of those decisions were apparently immoral, but in her mind, almost anything is justified in order to achieve her teen goal of becoming President. She doesn’t really have much of a moral compass, and her childhood and upbringing can be blamed for this.

Donald Trump came from a much more “happy” background, but his father was a die-hard business man who demanded much WORK, constant work, from his sons. Donald’s brother died of alcohol-related causes, which explains Pres. Trump’s teetotaling. (I believe that Pres. Carter was also a teetotaler, but it was because of his religion.) This work obsession explains a lot of Pres. Trump’s constant activity and tweeting, lack of sleeping hygiene, and his addictions to junk food (those of us who don’t drink often use junk food, especially soda, to feed our “addictive” personalities). And of course, since he was raised by a “wheeler and dealer,” it explains his talk of “making deals,” something which offends many people who distrust salesmen anyway.

This Frontline episode explained so much about the 2016 Presidential candidates and I’m glad that I saw it before the elecition. I think that the Frontline episodes that I have seen are very thorough journalism.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

What explains the way Trump treats other people? What in his childhook contributed to his nasty personality?

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

There can be no life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness without a living wage, affordable health care, and the security of a safe, clear environment in which to live.The government must provide for these things. These things are imperative!

 

[F_Marturana]

His father was very harsh but not a consistent disciplinarian.

Trump has bragged about punching his piano teacher in the nose when he was eight. By twelve he was a discipline problem at school and was sent to a military school.

I’ve read different hypothesis. That he had undiagnosed ADHD. That he has a personality disorder like narcissism. That he’s in the beginning stages of dementia. My mother has Alzheimer’s. I see similar things in the president as I did in my mom. She too was able to pass a dementia screening test in her early stages.

His sisters were successful outside of the family business one a federal judge, another a banker. He has a younger brother named Robert who is retired and enjoys his life outside of the public eye. He was also a part of the Trump business.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

He seems like a sad person. Searching for happiness. But seemingly only finding happiness by making others unhappy.

 

[whatistrue]

The US system is fairly unique.

Just to add to this, Parliamentary systems, indeed most other systems in the developed world, tend to separate the Head of Government (roughly equivalent to our Executive branch functions dealing with internal day to day governing) from Head of State (UK Monarch, German or French President, etc. - the “face” of the nation to the rest of the world), which we pile on to a single person. I believe that there are advantages to that division, not the least of which is that each of them alone is an extremely stressful full-time full-time job (if done properly).

 

[Lemuel]

The Constitution says nothing about “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. It very clearly spells out the powers of congress and the Constitution is silent on those things for a reason. Not everyone needs or wants a nanny government. And it’s not only not the government’s job but those things are unconstitutional. Are we as Catholics not obligated to honor the laws of the land?

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

Nanny government? How about we get back to the Eisenhauer days of the rich paying their ‘fair share’ in taxes?

 

[Annie]

Between 1980 and the mid-90s about 1.2 million babies were killed annually. Today that is about 650,000 and falling. Sure, that is still too many, but the per-ca-pita abortion rate is one third from 1980 to now due to population growth.

Before abortion was legalized, the rates were much lower–they only rose to those heights in the 70s because of Roe v Wade, so the argument that legalizing in order to control doesn’t really work.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

As early as her teen years, she was already reading Alinsky and other controversial politicians/authors, and she had arrived at a goal to one day become President of the United States.

Saul Alinsky was an evil genius. He certainly understood human nature, I’ll give him that. Many of his tactics could be used for evil, or they could be used for good. “People skills”, which he certainly had, are a dangerous thing in the hands of the wrong people. Charles Manson had good people skills. So did Jim Jones. So did Joseph Smith. I could go on.

 

[Annie]

I think this is the true Christian calling. It’s one thing to stand on a corner with an Abortion Kills sign, demonstrate outside an abortion clinic, or phone your representatives to pass new laws.

I see what you are saying, but I think that you are unaware of the many organizations which do just as you suggest. Additionally, there used to exist an even more formal set of aids to young women before Roe. I think many of those involved in activism are also involved in helping pregnant women.

Going beyond this starts to reveal how cheap the moral sense of accomplishment is in the proceeding.

This could be applied to many issues, such as promising to provide free or inexpensive [whatever] paid for either other people’s money.

 

[Annie]

then that child deserves to be treated as a human by making enough societal support available, especially to the mother.

We provide housing, food, medical coverage, day care help, etc., to the poor.

What are the things which are lacking that you feel we need to provide by way of social support?

 

[Lemuel]

Yes, nanny government. The covetous, selfish and greedy want boatloads of freebies and think the rich owe it to them. Crazy idea of fair.

Government is the problem, not the solution.

 

[HomeschoolDad]

Americans have never made high intellect an indispensable requirement for being President. We are not a nations of intellectuals, nor (unlike, for instance, France) do we have a prominent place in the public sphere for intellectuals. Noam Chomsky, Camille Paglia, Gore Vidal, Mortimer Adler, and back in the day, William F. Buckley Jr, that’s about it. You could also throw Steve Allen into that mix. Adlai Stevenson and Michael Dukakis were toast for this reason. Obama got by with being wonky and erudite because he pressed a lot of social buttons to go with it, and he had charisma. Hillary, about as wonky as they come, pressed a lot of the same buttons, but let’s just say she was charisma-challenged.

I haven’t seen a single Democrat out there for 2020 who gives the vibe of being able to take the flag and run with it. At least Bernie, agree with him or disagree, says what he thinks, stays on message, doesn’t change, and what you see is what you get — reminds me of a liberal latter-day Barry Goldwater. That does have a certain appeal.

To see Bernie running against Trump would be the ultimate political junkie fever dream. Can you imagine what the debates would be like?

 

[Leo2014]

Are we as Catholics not obligated to honor the laws of the land?

As Christians, we have a higher obligation. Remember Matthew tells us; Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

I think the disparity within ones condition, will corrode your moral fiber. Which brings you to a state of just lacking any empathy. It is frustrating to find people that take advantage of one’s charity. However, those are issues that need to be address. It is not an excuse to discard Christian charity.

 

[Lemuel]

It’s not charitable to give away other people’s money.