Any thoughts on the debates?

[Leo2014]

Leo2014:

Trump was (and is) a populist who does not reflect conservative values

If by “conservative values” you mean the extreme laissez-faire positions that some “pure” conservatives hold, then I would agree and am thankful for it.

Laissez-faire would lean towards a libertarian ideology even though many “working class” conservatives embrace it without knowing that they are paying the bill and receiving none of the benefits. It is pure theory, no individual or entity within a society exist without some form of concessions or variances that they want to work in their favor.

Look at Trump’s case: For obvious reasons, no president before Trump has come out of the Real Estate business. It is a lightly regulated market based on substantial debt, exposure to frequent market fluctuations that often depends on government favors; many of my clients are from this sector. Those that work within the industry know that it is also infested with those looking to launder problem cash. No wonder he does not want to share his tax returns.

In a free market, you and I need to be diligent and aware of what our civic leaders are doing. I could care less if you call yourself a liberal or conservative; ultimately your leaders are placing their interest ahead of yours. It is that frustration with our leaders that allowed Trump the victory. It is also those same conditions that would allow someone else to replace him.

There are many serious problems that need to be address. However, we are seeing a growing trend towards tribalism, which is not healthy. Your old enough to know, working within a group, community or society will always involve compromises.

 

[AlNg]

We really only have two choices for parties in this country and there is really no room for additional parties with more nuanced platforms.

I don’t see why there can be several parties in Germany, Russia and many other countries but the Americans have room for only two parties. In a free country, there should be as many parties as the citizens want.

 

[Peeps]

Thoughts? Just another group of communists who hate their own country. Except Tulsi, hope she does well.

I wouldn’t say they are “communists,” but I definitely think they are very out-of-touch with their country.

I think that all of the candidates should do something that Pres. Trump obviously did (or perhaps paid others to do)–take a long road trip through the United States. Avoid the major cities and head out to the hills, the fields and farms, mountains and valleys, the deserts, the lush orchards, the vineyards, the tourist attractions, the bowling alleys and ski resorts and parks and schools, the small towns and small cities, the factories, the small businesses, the military bases and their nearby towns, and of course, the CHURCHES!

Go to home-grown restaurants with names like “3rd Street Diner” and “Sit-A-Spell” and talk with the patrons. Go to flea markets and outdoor patriotic concerts and softball tourneys and skateboard parks.

Ask where the most dangerous section of the city or town is, and go there and visit the businesses and churches and bars.

Visit the hospitals and talk to people who work on the floors, in the lab and xray and respiratory, dietary, maintenance, and offices, and eventually, to the Chief Medical Officer who knows how government policies impact healthcare, and also has explanations for why medical procedures sometimes really do cost millions of dollars.

Don’t stay in hotels. Arrange to stay with families and senior citizens, or at campgrounds, and talk!

I’m not just shooting the breeze here. I honestly think this would be one of the wisest courses of action that these Democratic candidates could take in the next few months. They have all kinds of ideas, but the ideas are based on some fantasy of the U.S. that they have built up in their minds due to their very narrow knowledge of their country (much of it probably gleaned from an online world). They need to get real and seek out facts.

One thing I think they would discover is that there really is a melting pot in many of our towns and cities. Of course, Hispanics, African Americans, Asian Americans, European Americans, LBGTQ, atheists, Catholics, Protestants and all the other religious populations, etc. have their own hangouts and festivals and pride displays, but throughout the year, we have discovered ways to work together and get along and be friends. I think that a lot of the Democratic candidates believe that we all hate each other, and that is so not true.

 

[1cthlctrth]

It’s funny that most of the Democratic Party’s beliefs and talking points are often almost identical to most of the media’s beliefs and talking points. Watch CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, and NBC. Read the NY Times and Washington Post, and many Leftist websites. It looks like they could all be following the same marching orders.

 

[PJH_74]

I don’t see why there can be several parties in Germany, Russia and many other countries but the Americans have room for only two parties. In a free country, there should be as many parties as the citizens want.

No offence intended, but I must ask if you are an American or familiar with how the US representative system works compared to the Parliamentary Governments you seem to be referencing. It’s entirely possible I’m over simplifying, but in a Parliamentary system Legislative and Executive (Ministerial/Prime Minister/Etc.) roles are essentially one thing. Whomever has enough control of the Legislature (often the “lower” more direct vote oriented body) gets control of the Executive roles. If there are not enough votes to form a majority party, a coalition can be formed giving smaller parties a role in Government.

The US system is fairly unique. The Judicial “branch” is essentially the same as in a Parliamentary system. However the Executive “branch” and the Legislative (Senate and House of Representatives) “branch” are all elected independently. Like the US, most lower Parliamentary Legislative bodies are by direct vote, however some other country’s Upper legislative bodies such as the UK Lords, German Bundesrat, etc. are filled with at least a portion of its members being appointed or having inherited seats and I think their roles are more advisory in nature in general.

In short every Branch of the US Government, Executive (President), Legislative (Senate and House of Representatives), and Judicial all have ways to control each other (known as checks and balances) and all 4 represent domains of power that individual parties try to control. This difference is probably why there are essentially no viable 3rd Parties. Probably the biggest exception is the Socialist Bernie Sandars, who votes with the Democrats and has been a leading Presidential candidate both in 2016 and currently for the 2020 election. It should be noted that he’s been running for President as almost a virtual Democratic Candidate, which should say something about even the highest profile 3rd party member of the US Government.

Well that’s about as much as I know or can guess at!

 

[Padres1969]

Indeed. Vote for Concentration Camps or vote for abortion… great choices we have in this country thanks to the failed two party system. And it is a failed system.

 

[PJH_74]

Indeed. Vote for Concentration Camps or vote for abortion… great choices we have in this country thanks to the failed two party system. And it is a failed system.

I hear you. The only advantage I have, for which I have and will continue take heat for, is that I’m Pro-Life. But, I think legal abortion is a necessary tool for us to control it.

I know this is contradictory and it’s definitely not orthodox Catholic teaching, but hear me out. Without legal abortion we have no way to set standards on how late, what methods, and conditions are admissible. I know this sounds clinical, but if our efforts cannot prevent a baby being killed, we at least can set when it is allowed and make it done as competently and quickly as possible.

I know this stance may sound like an excuse, trick, or justification. However it is an unfortunate fact, of a fallen humanity, that some social issues like this do, and will continue to occur, with little regard to the impact on some members of society. This of course effects the baby most, but it impacts women in ways no birthed man can experience.

Of course the immediate response is why then not allow murder, neglectful deaths, theft, etc. to be legal? Well, because the vast majority of people see them as crimes and unacceptable behavior, we can properly enforce these laws. The consensus is far from that strong on abortion and may be getting less so due to reduced religious practice. Also, very importantly, immigration has been shifting social norms and introducing different cultural values.

Some food for thought. We, and increasing so lately, have been enacting laws to further justify taking someone’s life. The “stand your ground” Laws are good example. Catholic teaching, hopefully to a much lesser degree allows, allows for “justifiable” killing too. I say this as a reminder that Catholic teaching is not snow white about human caused deaths. No, that does not mean teaching carte blanche social justification to abortion, but I’m not sure the social circumstances are as well factored in for things like war. The Church could just as easily said war is murder and a sin and therefore never justified. Also, regionally it seems to me, the places that oppose abortion most are where gun use and possession are most loose.

So, you think this is all bunk? Consider this. Increased control of abortion has had a notable effect. Between 1980 and the mid-90s about 1.2 million babies were killed annually. Today that is about 650,000 and falling. Sure, that is still too many, but the per-ca-pita abortion rate is one third from 1980 to now due to population growth. This is all in an era of perceived and lessening of social norms which I hear so often about here.

 

[PJH_74]

Unfortunately, the laws past recently making it virtually illegal to have any abortions, I think are destine to fail in their efforts. Why? Because we’re reaching, if not past the point, at which the laws go from attainable compliance to where people will travel distances to find a legal location or do it under dangerous or brutal conditions.

The solution to close the gap from say the current 650,000 deaths per year is more and more a social one. The easy stuff has already been done. There are and will always be a reason people seek an abortion. The further we go the finer and deeper we have to go into these social causes. The worst ones requiring the most unique responses to the most broken people. If abortion is illegal, at some point they will happen anyway due to the brokenness and pressure in people’s lives.

Look at it this way, you can vacuum a dirty rug all you want. You can get most of and the easiest dirt cleaned. At some point, you need to get the spray foam out to clean up a split drink stain. But to get rid of the pet stains you need a stronger, specialized soap. Finally, you may need to pull out the wet vac. If abortion laws are the vacuum cleaner, we are approaching a point at which it is no longer effective. Making abortion virtually or completely illegal leaves us essentially one tool, the vacuum to address the deep social stains that cause them.

I think this is the true Christian calling. It’s one thing to stand on a corner with an Abortion Kills sign, demonstrate outside an abortion clinic, or phone your representatives to pass new laws. Going beyond this starts to reveal how cheap the moral sense of accomplishment is in the proceeding.

I’ve been on a few foreign mission trips that made it crystal clear how foreign aid can be hamfisted, inappropriate, useless, and even actually harmful. Think about being a farmer when USA aid shows up with a whole ship of free food or a person who makes clothes when a pile of donated clothing shows up (ever wonder why you see people like this wear Jones family reunion shirts or of teams they’ve probably never heard of?) No, this isn’t abortion, but there are many truths to how one must understand the commitment and dedicated focus required to have any real and lasting improvement.

Feel free blast me now…

 

[Peeps]

Indeed. Vote for Concentration Camps or vote for abortion… great choices we have in this country thanks to the failed two party system. And it is a failed system.

Have other countries with more than one political Party made abortion illegal?

Our government has NOT failed. The system is just fine. It is We, the People, who have failed because we have rejected Right and embraced Wrong when it comes to human life and human rights.

It is my opinion that the rejection of human rights came first, reaching all the way back to the transporting and elimination of the Native Americans, the establishment of legal slavery in the new nation, and acceptance of various prejudices against certain people groups (e.g. Asians, any dark-skinned person, the Irish, the Italians, JEWS, hillbillies, farmers, etc.) by those who considered themselves superior by virtue of their European pedigree or by the acquisition or inheritance of much money and land.

Once we de-humanized various people groups, it became easy to make a decision that some of these “sub-humans” did not deserve to live because they were interfering with the happy lives of the “privileged”.

But this is NOT the fault of the U.S. government. What government system has been effective at eliminating SIN among its people?

More political parties are not needed. What’s needed is repentance and righteousness and a return to GOD by members of BOTH of the political parties, but especially the Democrats, who have made legal abortion an official part of their Party Platform.

 

[Dr_Meinheimer]

Can we assume you are also sick of the hypocrisy of people who support “pro-choice” politicians because they are poor examples of humans on so many other areas too?

 

[PJH_74]

Once we de-humanized various people groups, it became easy to make a decision that some of these “sub-humans” did not deserve to live because they were interfering with the happy lives of the “privileged”.

I couldn’t agree more. Actually it is the US government that has failed us, because it is or should be us unless we ceed it through inaction.

I agree both parties need to look at where their values lay, but to sort of dovetail with my ramblings above, if you are going to define humanity as from conception, then that child deserves to be treated as a human by making enough societal support available, especially to the mother. If I’m blunt, it feels to me like a good chunk of the Pro-Life movement is more interested in wagging fingers and saving bodies than getting down into the dirt of the problem.

 

[on_the_hill]

Probably.
But none of them seem as bad.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

If I’m blunt, it feels to me like a good chunk of the Pro-Life movement is more interested in wagging fingers and saving bodies than getting down into the dirt of the problem

It’s hard to choose between outlawing abortion and helping pregnant mothers, but that’s what it has come down to.

 

[Peeps]

If I’m blunt, it feels to me like a good chunk of the Pro-Life movement is more interested in wagging fingers and saving bodies than getting down into the dirt of the problem.

It appears that you haven’t had a lot of contact with pro-life activists.

 

[JoeShlabotnik]

And the GOP is Pro-Life, but anti everything else. They are against a higher minimum wage, affordable health care, restrictions on the sales of assault-type weaponry, a clean environment, more money for education, more more for infrastructure repair, tax cuts for the middle class, immigration reform, election reform, equal pay for women, more money for medical research.
So pick your poison.

 

[Peeps]

And the GOP is Pro-Life, but anti everything else. They are against a higher minimum wage, affordable health care, restrictions on the sales of assault-type weaponry, a clean environment, more money for education, more more for infrastructure repair, tax cuts for the middle class, immigration reform, election reform, equal pay for women, more money for medical research.
So pick your poison.

This is nonsense and inflammatory.

The GOP isn’t against all these things. They just don’t believe the GOVERNMENT is the entire solution… The private sector is the best way to bring about positive change.

Think about how many government programs, especially federal programs, have been dismal failures in the last 50 years. And think about how many local, privately-funded programs in your town or city are successful.

We in the U.S. already pay around 35%-45% of our incomes for taxes. Do you really want us all to pay still more? I wouldn’t mind if the government programs actually did what they say they’re going to do. But they don’t!

As for taking it from “the rich,” that’s dumb. Most of the the rich already give large amounts of their incomes to various charitable endeavors, and to fund arts, sports, and other enriching causes. Our city has an award-winning public parks program (one of the good things about my city), and almost EVERY park and facility was DONATED by a RICH family!

Our church is raising 8 million dollars for necessary additions and modernization–five wealthy families in the parish donated one million dollars each. The rest of us (several thousand families) have donated two million. If it hadn’t been for those rich people, we would be dead before the improvements ever got off the ground.

Next time you watch Public Television (which presents some very liberal programs!), take a look at the ending credits, and read the names of all the wealthy people whose foundations donated funding for the program you just enjoyed.

Also, if rich people are taxed too much, they can shelter that money as easily as regular folks like us can bury it in a box in our backyard.

No, government is NOT the answer to our needs. WE are the answer!

 

[F_Marturana]

Marianne Williamson was able to come up with enough signatures and polled well enough to qualify.

I never heard of her, but she apparently officiated at Liz Taylor’s wedding to Larry Fortensky.

 

[F_Marturana]

I think so too.

I’m an independent now.

The sequester of children from asylum seekers and their mistreatment has scandalized me. The support of this by Catholics has scandalized me even more.

 

[meltzerboy2]

I know she is Jewish and wrote several books about spiritual love. That’s all I know about her.

 

[Lemuel]

They are against a higher minimum wage, affordable health care, restrictions on the sales of assault-type weaponry, a clean environment, more money for education, more more for infrastructure repair, tax cuts for the middle class, immigration reform, election reform, equal pay for women, more money for medical research.

They should be against most of those things. The Constitution does not allow congress to collect taxes or make laws for just about anything in that list. The federal government isn’t supposed to be our mommy and we need to stop acting like needy children.