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buffalo
Guest
Only those that support creation are liars. Don’tcha know?
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buffalo
Guest
As I have posted for years the bottleneck issue had this very issue. Indeed, they assume a level of diversity that is not provable.
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buffalo
Guest
Scholars understand them to be historical narrative backed by other verses in the OT and NT.
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buffalo
Guest
Never. They are unique, and sure enough to support your theistic evolutionary belief the Bible is inferior to provisional non-empirical science claims.
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buffalo
Guest
The top evo’s won’t “let the divine foot in the door”.
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edwest211
Guest
I agree. This needs to be mentioned.
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Dan123
Guest
Show one exists and they will. They’re also not letting any of the other gods humanity has believed in into the theory also, I imagine you prefer they keep doing that though.
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buffalo
Guest
The pagan gods? Really? Surely you know that these were falsified.
There is plenty of evidence. Philosophy and logic will show a God.
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Gorgias
Guest
I hate to have to point this out to you, but… in Hebrew, there are almost no words which carry an “exclusive meaning”; Hebrew is rather fluid in its use of root stems which take on a range of meanings. Therefore, asserting that ‘nephesh’ – which is used to indicate ‘person’ or ‘soul’ in relationship to humans – also can be used in the context of animals, doesn’t really help your case.
The point is that God didn’t create humans ‘ex nihilo’, as it were, in the way that YECs seem to want to assert that He did. The difference between dirt->human and prior creature->human is much less a leap than the assertion “created human (bodies) immediately.”
You need to read the narrative in context, my friend. In Genesis 2, God also creates the animals “from the ground”, but… does He “breathe the breath of life” into them? No… He doesn’t. And therefore, the distinction that the narrative itself makes is that the “breath of life” from God is what makes a human, human.
The implication here is that, having been given the breath of life from God, Adam became a human. That’s not absurd – that’s precisely what the narrative is trying to assert!
One last thought: I was listening to Called to Communion this afternoon on EWTN. Someone called in with precisely the question on theistic evolution that we’ve been discussing here. (Maybe someone posting or lurking in this thread decided to call in and ask an expert?
) Know what Dr Anders said? Theistic evolution is a theory that the Church allows us to hold as valid. 
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
You may be right. But I don’t think you are, and I think we will both live long enough for the formal teaching of the Church to agree with me.
That’s largely true, I fear. And I’m afraid I lay the blame for this squarely on Creationists’ heads. Their caricature of God makes him wholly unbelievable. Fortunately there are a few “top evos” who do let the divine foot in the door, and lots of us bottom evos who do the same.
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Techno2000
Guest
But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
1 Corinthians 1:27
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
Maybe you’re right, but it hasn’t happened on this thread.
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Techno2000
Guest
Yes it does, you believe that us creationist are foolish.Techno2000:
Maybe you’re right, but it hasn’t happened on this thread.
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Hugh_Farey
Guest
No it doesn’t, the wise have not been confounded.
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Techno2000
Guest
Don’t you think it’s foolish to believe that Eve came from the rib of Adam?Techno2000:
No it doesn’t, the wise have not been confounded.
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Richca
Guest
What would be the point of faith then without which ‘it is impossible to please God’?buffalo:
Show one exists and they will. They’re also not letting any of the other gods humanity has believed in into the theory also, I imagine you prefer they keep doing that though.
God became incarnate in human flesh, performed mighty miracles and still many people including the scribes and pharisees didn’t believe in him and then these unbelievers demanded his crucifixtion. The point is, some people are so hard of heart and prideful it doesn’t matter what God does. Consider Pharoah and Moses and the ten plagues.
'This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says:
‘You shall indeed hear but never understand,
and you shall indeed see but never perceive.
For this people’s heart has grown dull,
and their ears are heavy of hearing,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should perceive with their eyes,
and hear with their ears,
and understand with their heart,
and turn for me to heal them.’ (Matt. 13: 13-15)
‘But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’” (Luke 16:29-31).
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Richca
Guest
Yes, there’s no way the ‘dust of the ground’ can be interpreted as an animate creature of sorts. The hebrew word for ‘dust’ means simply soil, dirt, clay, earth. The ground or dust/soil is not animate.
"In the sweat of your face
you shall eat bread
till you return to the ground,
for out of it you were taken;
you are dust,
and to dust you shall return.”(Genesis 3: 19).
When we die our bodies are not alive anymore and we decompose into soil. I have also mentioned before that Genesis 2 uses a play on words between ‘man’ which is ‘adam’ in hebrew and ‘ground’ which is ‘adamah’ in hebrew. So, the hebrew word ‘adam’, which means ‘man’ or ‘Adam’ as the proper name of the first man, means from out of the ground. It seems the sacred writer and God is making it clear that the first man, Adam, was formed by God of dust from the ground (adamah).
And yes, the natural and obvious sense of God breathing into his nostrils the breath of life is because dust or soil from which God formed the body of Adam is lifeless just as the body is lifeless when we die and our soul departs the body.
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edwest211
Guest
I appreciate the clarification. What does the priest say on Ash Wednesday?
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buffalo
Guest
Let’s have a friendly bet. I will send you some American beer of your choice. What will you put up?
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buffalo
Guest
It is an a priori position and has nothing to do with “Creationists” which all Catholics are.
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