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Powdercoater
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I love Soul Core! I train both Muay Thai and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and I appreciate the peaceful complement that Soul Core lends to my training.
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pnewton
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This is kind of the point. The spiritual battle is not a physical one. That’s kind of what Paul was saying about meat. Meat was meat. If offering it to a pagan idol did not taint the meat spiritually, I do not understand how muscle movements can be tainted. So when we speak of yoga, I think it worth separating the physical exercise, and treating it separately from yoga as a spiritual exercise.
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lilypadrees
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With all due respect, I know all about the various poses and breathing techniques used in yoga. I turned my back on them long ago because they are not of God.
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Shakuhachi
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If one were to watch Soul Core without knowing the thoughts and intentions of the practitioners could one tell it is not yoga?
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JimR-OCDS
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OK, what exercises are of God ?
Nowhere in the Bible is there an exercise routine specified.
Jim
Nowhere in the Bible is there an exercise routine specified.
Jim
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Powdercoater
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Interesting question… Some of the movements are more calisthenic but
otherwise quite similar.
otherwise quite similar.
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godisgood77
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yes, the health benefits are undeniable… any so called spiritual dangers are subjective… silly in my opinion.
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tom1
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I don’t. Everyone has their God(s)… all of the asanas you do during yoga, come from Lord Shiva’s teaching. They weren’t invented by man and their purpose is not relaxation. One guru (Maharishi Mahesh Yogi) laughed when he learned that people in the West use yoga for relaxation. Then he said that it doesn’t matter, it will still have it’s effect.
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pnewton
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Who do you think came up with them? Shiva?
Again, I refer back to St. Paul’s teaching on the matter. It is an exact parallel.
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angel12
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How could a non-existent “god” have invented yoga?
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Eliza10
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Well, I have the same idea. Makes sense to me, its just very pretty stretching exercises. It certainly looks it to me! But I know that even though we know clearly what we see and we think we can decide for ourselves, “Our ways are not God’s ways.” So when the top Catholic experts who engage in REAL in spiritual battles say to stay away from it, I have to admit they probably know more than me. Even if I can’t see it.
Your analogy/connection with the meat offered to pagan idols makes sense. However, one is you are eating something (and I can see why Paul needed to address it), and the other is said by Catholic Exorcist Priests to be using your body to go into prayer positions to other gods. Yes, that is what the Exorcists say of it. I don’t see how I can refute that by saying,“But it just looks like nice stretching TO ME!”.
And since that is the FIRST Commandment is “Though shalt have no other Gods before me,” it seems a big clear priority to God, and you have to realize that the Exorcist Priests complaint is that you are putting your body in worship positions of false gods.
Yes, God knows your heart, and absolutely He knows that you don’t MEAN to say prayers to other God’s! But, there is a logic problem saying that you don’t mean it to be what it is actually IS, so, that makes it okay" But I can’t think of the logic argument at the moment. It makes sense though! I will get back to you when I remember or find it where I read it.
Your analogy/connection with the meat offered to pagan idols makes sense. However, one is you are eating something (and I can see why Paul needed to address it), and the other is said by Catholic Exorcist Priests to be using your body to go into prayer positions to other gods. Yes, that is what the Exorcists say of it. I don’t see how I can refute that by saying,“But it just looks like nice stretching TO ME!”.
And since that is the FIRST Commandment is “Though shalt have no other Gods before me,” it seems a big clear priority to God, and you have to realize that the Exorcist Priests complaint is that you are putting your body in worship positions of false gods.
Yes, God knows your heart, and absolutely He knows that you don’t MEAN to say prayers to other God’s! But, there is a logic problem saying that you don’t mean it to be what it is actually IS, so, that makes it okay" But I can’t think of the logic argument at the moment. It makes sense though! I will get back to you when I remember or find it where I read it.
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Shakuhachi
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If what you are saying is true then any stretch or posture that looks like yoga “is” yoga. That even includes just laying on your back, kneeling, standing trailer up, sitting with your legs crossed. You are saying intention does not matter. It is all dangerous regardless of what we think.
I cannot agree.
I cannot agree.
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TK421
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Neither can I. A person can’t accidentally worship another god.
I can to some extent appreciate your point of view, in wanting to keep your faith feeling unadulterated by not using something that is sometimes placed in the ‘New Age’ package deal. I was in that camp myself and it seemed intuitively best.
But it smacks of superstition. That a person can do something, say something by happenstance, or move their body in a certain way, and ‘oops, you just committed idolatry’. or ‘oops, you just performed a magical art’. There is no such thing as ‘oops’ with that stuff. You either do it or you don’t. And I think an argument that it could be scandal is also very tenuous, not to mention unsustainable in the long-term. The world is connected these days and it’s inevitable that all sorts of practices between East and West or North and South are going to spread in all directions, and that is only going to get more true over time. It’s just that right now in our history, we’re still getting used to it, so it can sometimes create debate.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in the 50s and 60s similar controversy existed towards kung fu. I would have probe around…
I can to some extent appreciate your point of view, in wanting to keep your faith feeling unadulterated by not using something that is sometimes placed in the ‘New Age’ package deal. I was in that camp myself and it seemed intuitively best.
But it smacks of superstition. That a person can do something, say something by happenstance, or move their body in a certain way, and ‘oops, you just committed idolatry’. or ‘oops, you just performed a magical art’. There is no such thing as ‘oops’ with that stuff. You either do it or you don’t. And I think an argument that it could be scandal is also very tenuous, not to mention unsustainable in the long-term. The world is connected these days and it’s inevitable that all sorts of practices between East and West or North and South are going to spread in all directions, and that is only going to get more true over time. It’s just that right now in our history, we’re still getting used to it, so it can sometimes create debate.
I wouldn’t be surprised if in the 50s and 60s similar controversy existed towards kung fu. I would have probe around…
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Eliza10
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The Sign of the Cross. Is it really “just an excercise”? Hmm…
What’s Wrong With Yoga and Other New Age Practices? | Inside EWTNhttps://insideewtn.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/whats-wrong-with-yoga-and-other-new-age-practices/
What’s Wrong With Yoga and Other New Age Practices? | Inside EWTNhttps://insideewtn.wordpress.com/2015/10/28/whats-wrong-with-yoga-and-other-new-age-practices/
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Shakuhachi
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It is only The Sign of the Cross to those who give it that meaning.
It is humans who give meaning to their gestures and they vary from culture to culture.
It is humans who give meaning to their gestures and they vary from culture to culture.
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TK421
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I am not buying the analogy at all, namely because even in India proper, yoga is not universally used for religious reasons. There is no formal way to apostatize or join the Hindu faith, but non-practicing Hindus still use yoga.
Nor is there any real physical exertion to making the sign of the cross. This is obviously physical:
So if you want to add hundreds of different body poses into things that are personally haram for you, that is fine and it is your business. I’m going to predict here that that is the losing side of history though. In 2050 yoga will be firmly cemented as mainstream, if it isn’t quite yet already.
Nor is there any real physical exertion to making the sign of the cross. This is obviously physical:
So if you want to add hundreds of different body poses into things that are personally haram for you, that is fine and it is your business. I’m going to predict here that that is the losing side of history though. In 2050 yoga will be firmly cemented as mainstream, if it isn’t quite yet already.
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Shakuhachi
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If a hardcore atheist should make the Sign of the Cross is she honoring the Trinity? Is God pleased?
If you found a place where no one ever heard of God or The Trinity or the cross and you made The Sign of The Cross and someone mimicked you making it as well, are they worshipping God?
If you found a place where no one ever heard of God or The Trinity or the cross and you made The Sign of The Cross and someone mimicked you making it as well, are they worshipping God?
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pnewton
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Something to remember is that this is not something that has been condemned by the Church. In light of that, it is sure possible that we can each act according to our own conscience. As in all things in this brave new world, we must be cautious for ourselves, but we really should be tolerant of those that have not come to the same conclusions.
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LilyM
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That was a case where not just a few but a LOT of people around DID believe in those false gods. For a persecuted Jew, AND the persecuting pagan, to see Jews making gestures of worship would cause the sin of scandal, by either persuading other Jews to forsake their beliefs or confirm the pagans in theirs. Same for early Christians v pagan Romans.Shakuhachi:
I know that saints have died a martyrs death before they would simply burn a bit of incense. I mean, it is only incense, we Catholics burn incense, so it would have been so easy to justify it “I know that I am burning this incense to God and not to this false deity”. The Book of Saints - Saint Augustine's Abbey, Aeterna Press - Google Books
Or eat a bit of pork, one tiny taste - surly a mom would encourage her precious son to just eat one nibble of the pork, but, instead the mother and brothers encouraged each other in martyrdom http://www.usccb.org/bible/2mc/7
I don’t think anyone who saw me attempting a downward dog (very badly, I may add - limber I ain’t) would either think I was becoming Hindu myself or themselves be encouraged towards or confirmed in Hindu beliefs.
No scandal, definitely no idolatry, no sin.
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tom1
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https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-really-seen-or-experienced-Lord-Shiva
https://www.quora.com/Does-anyone-have-experience-with-Lord-Shiva
Do you need more? I hope you were not just trying to be smart or teasing, because this is not a funny matter, nor is this a matter suitable for some sorts of mental gymnastics and clashing opinions for fun.
The yogic postures come from Lord Shiva, and by using them you are breaking the first commandment, because you are resorting to different faith. At least have the honesty to admit it. Praying to God isn’t enough for health, you can’t accept the fact that God gives you stress, that you experience what you do not want. You want relaxation and fitness of the body, and you want it now! Well, there are a lot of different methods, yoga is one of them. None of those methods will make you humble, it’s otherwise - they will serve you everything you desire on a silver platter, until it’s too late.
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