Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

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I don’t think you’ll find too many pro-choice people on this site, but I was pro-choice before I came to Jesus and became a Catholic. (I even attended a pro-choice march in DC while in college) At the time, I did not know Jesus, I didn’t grow up knowing Him, and I thought it was “a women’s right to choose”…I was influenced by unGodly people at the time. Thank God I met my husband who introduced me to the Church and saved me. These pro-chioce people don’t have Jesus in their lives and until they do, they will continue to support abortion.
 
I’ll admit, I was before I returned. Since then though, my view has changed.
I was probably more “pro-choice” than those that claim to be. I always disliked abortion, and would disapprove of it if somebody close to me wanted to get one, I was of the mindset that it shouldn’t be illegal.
IMO, though, I’ve started to see that those that say they are “pro-choice” are really just “pro-abortion,” and that would be a better title for them.
 
I saw a cartoon sometime back in a Sunday paper. Two demons are leading aman down a ramp into the fiery pit. They are saying: “We aren’t saying you are a bad person. We just find that you made some bad choices.”

So it’s okay to be pro-choice, as long as you make the right choices. 😉
 
Joe_Kelley said:
I saw a cartoon sometime back in a Sunday paper. Two demons are leading aman down a ramp into the fiery pit. They are saying: “We aren’t saying you are a bad person. We just find that you made some bad choices.”

So it’s okay to be pro-choice, as long as you make the right choices. 😉
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I agree and disagree witht this. I think it’s important to let others know where we stand, especially impressionable young adults. It’s important to speak out and clearly remind others that this is murder, because so many people nowadays are being pursuaded by the liberal mainstream media that this might be ok. I know people in real life who say they are prochoice and use the often-repeated arguments of “what about in the case of rape or incest?” Most of the arguments they present they clearly didn’t think up on their own. I really think that many teens don’t understand the arguments, are looking for some direction, and need some guidance. If us “gentle witnesses to the faith” don’t step in, then teens will get their info from TV, other teens, and the media which usually have a more liberal bent to them.

In other words, I don’t think it’s ok to be pro-choice.
 
NCSue said:
If so, perhaps you can explain something to me. (Understand that I’m gonna be hard to convince… I’m pro-life in every circumstance…)

Can you please clear up a mystery for me, and tell me what makes sense about this?
acts17verse28.blogspot.com/2009/05/wheres-sense-in-that.html.
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I read the article that you reference and I think that the poster in that blog was bringing the same question to bear. If the 4D ultrasound of whales and other mammals inspires awe in the general public, why doesn’t the hand of the fetus in that photo from 10 years ago inspire the same awe. I actually remember when the photo of the tiny fist grabbing the surgeon first was published. It did inspire awe in many, many people. It boggles the mind that some people who are vegetarian are also pro-abortion. But don’t lump all “tree-huggers” and “save the whale” fanatics as pro-abortion. I think as catholics we should address each issue rather than putting all liberals in the same box.

A 4D image of a human fetus is equally inspiring to many men and women. I think that the abortion activists do not advocate using ultrasound to see the life inside the womb.

Anyway I tried to address your question about the article. I hope I hit the target.
 
NCSue said:
If so, perhaps you can explain something to me. (Understand that I’m gonna be hard to convince… I’m pro-life in every circumstance…)

Can you please clear up a mystery for me, and tell me what makes sense about this?
acts17verse28.blogspot.com/2009/05/wheres-sense-in-that.html.
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As a man, I find it very difficult to really get my head around this issue and put myself in the shoes of a pregnant woman. Generally speaking, I don’t like abortion. The destruction of human life is always a very bad, highly undesirable thing.

However, the legalization of abortion is not a cut-and-dry simple matter for me. The fetus is a creature that’s living inside of a woman, it takes up resources, causes emotional and physical transformations, and a pregnancy may negatively impact the mother socially and economically. And, of course it could potentially cause that woman harm. And, the woman has to endure this for 9 months. Do I *force *every woman who gets pregnant in the United States to endure that? Admittedly, a woman keeping the baby fetus inside of her for most of a year - even while it turns her life upside down - is usually the merciful, praiseworthy thing, but it’s not something that should be inscribed and demanded by law. It’s a decision that each woman needs to make on her own, and government needs to get the heck out of it.
 
Exalt said:
The fetus is a creature that’s living inside of a woman, it takes up resources, causes emotional and physical transformations, and a pregnancy may negatively impact the mother socially and economically. And, of course it could potentially cause that woman harm. And, the woman has to endure this for 9 months.
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IMHO, you’re treading some very dangerous territory here. A possible negative “social and emotional impact” isn’t a proper test by which to measure whether someone else’s life should be sacrificed. If it were, all of us would be endangered. If we kill someone simply as a matter of our ease or convenience or peace of mind, we have much to answer to when we stand before God.
 
Exalt said:
As a man, I find it very difficult to really get my head around this issue and put myself in the shoes of a pregnant woman. Generally speaking, I don’t like abortion. The destruction of human life is always a very bad, highly undesirable thing.

However, the legalization of abortion is not a cut-and-dry simple matter for me. The fetus is a creature that’s living inside of a woman, it takes up resources, causes emotional and physical transformations, and a pregnancy may negatively impact the mother socially and economically. And, of course it could potentially cause that woman harm. And, the woman has to endure this for 9 months. Do I *force *every woman who gets pregnant in the United States to endure that? Admittedly, a woman keeping the baby fetus inside of her for most of a year - even while it turns her life upside down - is usually the merciful, praiseworthy thing, but it’s not something that should be inscribed and demanded by law. It’s a decision that each woman needs to make on her own, and government needs to get the heck out of it.
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And in over 99% of cases, the woman CHOSE (that’s where the “choice” should come in!) to participate in the activity that caused the “fetus” (which, btw, is simply the Latin term for “young one”) to be there in the first place, (whether or not she got pregnant on purpose, she knew that intercourse can cause pregnancy).

In Christ,

Ellen
 
“pro-choice” is a false term, as the little one and the father have no choice in the matter.

“pro-choice” is only pro-one-choice: abortion.
 
Exalt said:
As a man, I find it very difficult to really get my head around this issue and put myself in the shoes of a pregnant woman. Generally speaking, I don’t like abortion. The destruction of human life is always a very bad, highly undesirable thing.

However, the legalization of abortion is not a cut-and-dry simple matter for me. The fetus is a creature that’s living inside of a woman, it takes up resources, causes emotional and physical transformations, and a pregnancy may negatively impact the mother socially and economically. And, of course it could potentially cause that woman harm. And, the woman has to endure this for 9 months. Do I *force *every woman who gets pregnant in the United States to endure that? Admittedly, a woman keeping the baby fetus inside of her for most of a year - even while it turns her life upside down - is usually the merciful, praiseworthy thing, but it’s not something that should be inscribed and demanded by law. It’s a decision that each woman needs to make on her own, and government needs to get the heck out of it.
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Yep I agree though one thing different for me I am a woman lol. Also I should note from what I understand at least I think this way. We do see the fetus as a life. The question is it a life worthy of personhood and protection under the law.? And at the stage mentioned in the article I find it to be a very grey area. But the fact of the matter is most abortions take place far far sooner.
 
Calliso said:
The question is it a life worthy of personhood and protection under the law.?
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At what point is a life worthy?

Who will decide?

Is a person with a severe mental illness a life worthy of personhood?

Is an elderly person in a coma a life worthy of personhood?

Is my life worthy of personhood? And why?
 
Exalt said:
The fetus is a creature that’s living inside of a woman, it takes up resources, causes emotional and physical transformations, and a pregnancy may negatively impact the mother socially and economically. And, of course it could potentially cause that woman harm. And, the woman has to endure this for 9 months.
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I’m glad that you agree that the fetus is living. We have some common ground.

So what if I you invite me into your house (like a person invites a child by having sex), use up your resources (such as food, electricity, etc.), cause you emotional stress (if you don’t believe I can, talk to my wife), negatively impact you socially (if your friends don’t like me), and economically (I drive an Audi A4 and repairs aren’t cheap. It’ll also need new tires this winter). And I could potentially cause you harm because I am bi-polar. And you have to endure me for nine months.

So that gives you the right to kill me?
 
I want to say that I a pro-choice, but only from the political perspective. I, myself, would never want any woman I know to have an abortion. My wife and I feel the same way. Although we would never do it ourselves, what right do we have to give a vote that passes legislation.

It is a very complex subject for many people. I believe that education is the key to getting this whole thing back in control. I believe that if we have a more inclusive attitude, we can help these women and show the there are alternatives as opposed to be so judgemental.

Lastly, I just have to say that it is not our right to pass judgement on anyone. God gave us all free will and everyone will one day have to answer to our creator. I just pray that the lord helps those who are lost and show them that they too can live the life he intended.

REVERT TSIEG
 
Revert_TSIEG said:
I want to say that I a pro-choice, but only from the political perspective. I, myself, would never want any woman I know to have an abortion. My wife and I feel the same way. Although we would never do it ourselves, what right do we have to give a vote that passes legislation.

It is a very complex subject for many people. I believe that education is the key to getting this whole thing back in control. I believe that if we have a more inclusive attitude, we can help these women and show the there are alternatives as opposed to be so judgemental.
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Ok, so what if you wouldn’t want any woman you know to be a prostitute. Would you still feel like keeping it legal using the same logic.

Or what about suicide? While you wouldn’t do it yourself, would you favor allowing those who choose to do it the choice?

It’s only a complex subject because we make it so. When women drown their children after they are born because it’s impacting their life, we call it murder. When they kill them before they are born, we call it a right.
 
BobCatholic said:
“pro-choice” is a false term, as the little one and the father have no choice in the matter.

“pro-choice” is only pro-one-choice: abortion.
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I know I am new and I don’t want to be rude, but that attitude is what causes many to not every express their opinions and actually pushes people away from faith. I am pro-choice, only because God gave us free will and if the government is going to restrict that will would we really and truly be Godly people?

I would never want to or have even thought of my wife having an abortion. With that said, I think that women need to be educated and invited to come to the Lord as we have. Stating that pro-choice is a false term is almost as bad as calling people who are pro-choice, pro-abortion, something I hope no one in the world truly is.

Revert TSIEG
 
AHapka said:
Ok, so what if you wouldn’t want any woman you know to be a prostitute. Would you still feel like keeping it legal using the same logic.

Or what about suicide? While you wouldn’t do it yourself, would you favor allowing those who choose to do it the choice?

It’s only a complex subject because we make it so. When women drown their children after they are born because it’s impacting their life, we call it murder. When they kill them before they are born, we call it a right.
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Then the legal definition of life needs to be changed, in addition a myriad of other social aspect of the US. If the definition is changed, then you have a valid point. I know it is semantics, but in a litigious society this is what must be done. I am by no means condoning this action, but you have to see it from another perspective other than your own. I think that people need to be educated, not penalized.

We need to show these women that they have other choices by our actions, not only by our words. I am a teacher in an urban community and see day in and day out the pounding these kids take from society. They do not have good parental influence. If we practice our faith and show these kids the way, they may never need or think about killing a baby. Having the tools to comprehend what you are doing is more powerful than any law.

Revert TSIEG
 
I believe two things:
  1. Abortion is wrong.
  2. The state should not incarcerate a woman who has one.
The problem with the prolife political movement (as distinct from the prolife religious movement) is that its focus is overwhelmingly negative, propsing legistation to outlaw abortion which perforce means to impose criminal penalties.

I have yet to see legislation seriously discussed that promotes life positively, such as providing massive state assistance of all types to anyone experiencing pregnancy.

And I don’t expect to because the most ardent advocates for criminalizing abortions are likely to be those who would complain about the cost of such programs.
 
To the last 2 posters (sorry, I don’t know how to quote more than one post at a time):

The Catholic Church and other prolife organizations like Birthright, Our Lady’s Inn, and crisis pregnancy centers, do more to help woman in crisis pregnancies than anyone else. However, we must also speak the Truth and call a spade a spade: Abortion is the taking of an innocent human life, which by definition is murder. But even then, we still don’t pass judgement and condemn the women. Instead, the Church offers recovery and healing services like Rachel’s Vinyard.

And I know of no prolife legislation that seeks to incarcerate women for having abortions. The one’s prosecuted would be the abortionists. We don’t seek that (prosecuting women), because we recognize that in the vast majority of cases the woman doesn’t want the abortion, but feels she has no “choice” (ironic, isn’t it :rolleyes:), due to finances or social pressure from her parents, partner, job, or school. It’s a strawman argument to try to get the Church to change her teaching. She won’t.

Meanwhile, Planned Parenthood and their ilk paint abortion as the easiest way out of a “problem” and no more serious than tonsilectomy: the mere removal of “fetal tissue”, “contents of pregnancy” , or other euphamisms. Way easier than “sacrificing your body” for nine months and “ruining” or career or education. I personally know 2 women who’ve sat in abortion clinics bawling their eyes out in the “counselers” office, stating that they didn’t want the abortions. The so called “counselors” (who are supposed to be there to make sure women and girls aren’t being coerced and really want to have an abortion) didn’t bat an eye. Just signed the forms and sent them on their way to kill their babies.

Bottom line, let’s inject some truth into this debate: Abortion hurts women, Planned Parenthood hurts and exploits woman and enables child abusers for profit. They are the “bad guys”, not the Catholic Church and the pro-life moment.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
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