**By calling me disingenuous you accuse me of being insincere, which I am not. If you want to stick your nose into every pregnant woman’s business, come down on her like a ton of bricks for considering termination, scratch the eyes out of her boyfriend’s head, jam the Bible into their hands, go right on ahead and take your tidings of good will to the clinics.Disingenuous, at best.
It IS my business, and yours. We are our brother’s keeper.
'Cause that’s totally what all pro-life advocates do.**By calling me disingenuous you accuse me of being insincere, which I am not. If you want to stick your nose into every pregnant woman’s business, come down on her like a ton of bricks for considering termination, scratch the eyes out of her boyfriend’s head, jam the Bible into their hands, go right on ahead and take your tidings of good will to the clinics.
Let me know your destinations - I’ll bring my lawn chair.
Limerick**
**Someone who endagers life in the fight against abortion is not “pro-life” instead this person seems “anti abortion”.
And since you disaprove of using force to enforce moral issues, I am surprised you approve of using force against this bomber for doing something that is clearly immoral. Why aren’t you out their advocating his right to choose? Or are you finally seeing the light and realizing that it is wrong to take human life and it is the resposible role of the secular government to protect innocent lives?
**Are you claiming that Roman Catholicism is a subculture, with its own dictionary, its own thesaurus, its own self-imposed language barriers?"I asked royal archer. " sorry, I had things to do and could not get back to you sooner. Ditto what FanChan said.
“And as most pro-life people love to rely on the semantics argument when it comes to pro-choice vs. pro-abortion,” I would concur with you that on the semantics arguement in some aspects. On this board we sometimes have posters who come from different back grounds and have different interpretations of term and occasionally are not sensative to the finite differences between two terms. If someone uses a term inappropriately and gets chastized I do support them and feel they should have the opportunity to clarify their possition. What yo are doing is different. Pro life vs anti abbortion has been clearly spelled out here. what you are attempting to do is to merge these two differing groups into one so as to assign the sins of one group onto another.
“anyone using a bomb and thinking s/he is “just” in attempting to halt abortions is at best delusional.”
This is correct and you will not get any arguments from the pro life community on this.
**Absolutely.So do you think that that same pregnant woman instead of considering an abortion were not pregnant and considering doing drugs, committing prostitution, or engaging in binging and purging would you still advocate for her right to choose what to do with her “own” body?
NOTE: “Own” is in quotes because abortion impacts more than one body even though pro abortion people believe it does. I am framingthe question in terms used by the pro abortion crowd but not advocating that those terms are appropriate or accurate.
**They also need to know how premarital sex impacts their ability to find a decent spouse and have a happy marriage. We may need to start including some not so sensative real discussions about how people feel about engaging in long term relationships with others who have slept around.
**If former President Bush had said let’s get rid of all of the legal penaties stopping people from committing hate crimes and legalize lynchings saying it is up to the assailants choice but he is against lynchings would you not come out and say he was actively supporting lynchings?
As for bombings I never said anything that lead you to go to such an extreme accusation. Nor have I ever advocated violence. Violence is not synonymous with force.
**Okay, let’s shed a little light on the pro-life activities in your home, the ones that are going to save the life of one unborn child today. Pray? Check. Think about those sad pregnant women making the biggest mistake of their lives? Check. Put new pro-life bumper stickers on the car? Check.'Cause that’s totally what all pro-life advocates do.
Since it is within the law, do you support the torture of enemy combatants?**
I advocate for everyone’s** right to choose. I do not demand that they choose wisely or within the law. He clearly made a choice that was illegal. I do not encourage people to break the law. I did not call law enforcement on him. I did not sit on his jury. I am not responsible for his having placed the bomb on commercial property.
I do not endorse the taking of human life. I endorse the right of women to choose how to handle their pregnancies. Some will choose abortion and others will make other choices. I do not intervene in the decision-making. I do not manipulate other individuals as they are trying to make critical life decisions.
The secular government was protecting the employees of the clinic. By the time they arrived, all pregnant women had been moved to safety by the staff of the clinic to another facility. The responsibility of law enforcement was to protect and defend the staff.
Limerick
**Define torture.Since it is within the law, do you support the torture of enemy combatants?
no.**Are you claiming that Roman Catholicism is a subculture, with its own dictionary, its own thesaurus, its own self-imposed language barriers?
Limerick**
I am not sure CAF is ready for an open discussion on how men view view women who sleep around. Or in other words I am not sure it can be worded in a manner that is polite enough for this forum. But let it suffice that if a decent man truly loves a woman he will find great pain in the thought of that woman with another man even if it was prior to their marriage. Why would a woman want to spend the rest of her life with a man who did not lover her enogh to feel that way?**
Why not start a new thread on this? I would just love to hear your wisdom on this one.
Limerick**
at least your apparent disdain for others is consistent.**Absolutely.
L**
Gitmo and that jail in Iraq: abu… whatever.**Define torture.
L
**
I do pray, which is probably the most important thing one could do, but I don’t stop there. I make myself available outside of abortion clinics, to talk to women and offer them other choices. No violence, no shouting, no nasty signs or dirty looks. Believe it or not, I feel deeply for these women. My mother was one of them at one time, and she wishes someone had been there for her, to talk to and offer encouraging words, support, and not just ‘well, it’s up to you, it’s your choice, after all’.**Okay, let’s shed a little light on the pro-life activities in your home, the ones that are going to save the life of one unborn child today. Pray? Check. Think about those sad pregnant women making the biggest mistake of their lives? Check. Put new pro-life bumper stickers on the car? Check.
What do YOU do?
L**
**Why would a woman want to spend the rest of her life with a man who was jealous and controlling - even to the point of trying to control what has already taken place?! A male virgin and a female virgin, with no experience in the sexual arena - they might have a chance at a satisfying life together. A couple where one or both partners is “pained” by the thought of a former paramour? Is this for real?I am not sure CAF is ready for an open discussion on how men view view women who sleep around. Or in other words I am not sure it can be worded in a manner that is polite enough for this forum. But let it suffice that if a decent man truly loves a woman he will find great pain in the thought of that woman with another man even if it was prior to their marriage. Why would a woman want to spend the rest of her life with a man who did not lover her enogh to feel that way?
**Allowing other people to live their lives is hardly “disdain”. Do I need to get in their faces and say, “Put down that joint, Marge!! Don’t you know it will harm you??”at least your apparent disdain for others is consistent.
**Gitmo and that jail in Iraq: abu… whatever.
Your mother wishes someone “had been there for her, to talk to and offer encouraging words, support, and not just ‘well, it’s up to you, it’s your choice, after all’.” If her abortion took place after Roe, it was her choice. Where was the father of the fetus? You say this was your brother who was aborted - was his father your father? Where was her family? Was she truly alone? Did she receive counseling? Is she Catholic? Did she see a priest? There’s much about this story that we don’t know and so we cannot get an accurate picture of what happened.I do pray, which is probably the most important thing one could do, but I don’t stop there. I make myself available outside of abortion clinics, to talk to women and offer them other choices. No violence, no shouting, no nasty signs or dirty looks. Believe it or not, I feel deeply for these women. My mother was one of them at one time, and she wishes someone had been there for her, to talk to and offer encouraging words, support, and not just ‘well, it’s up to you, it’s your choice, after all’.
I also support the local crisis pregnancy center, through money and items like carseats, high chairs, diapers, and formula that the women there give to the ladies that come to them for help. My family has offered a number of women we knew personally who were in tight, dangerous, or frightening positions to raise their baby if they would let us, so they wouldn’t feel as though abortion were their only choice.
I also take part in pro-life marches, stands, and protests in the effort to make a difference in the legal ring.
I talk to people, share my story, try to offer my own perspective on the issue as someone who’s lost a brother to abortion. I support Rachel’s Vineyard, a movement that caters to women who haven’t been able to cope with their abortions, a movement that brought my family together after twenty-two years.
Maybe that’s not enough for you. Well, I’m sorry. What do you do?
My mother hadn’t known that she had any other choices. She was in the military, overseas, had a brief affair with a man who already had four kids and wound up pregnant. The father was already elsewhere by the time she knew she was pregnant, and she couldn’t bring herself to tell him. She was on and off with my father and had hopes of marrying him some day, and was petrified of telling him she’d gotten pregnant by someone else. Given the societal view of out-of-wedlock pregnancies of the time, she feared her liberal adoptive family wouldn’t support her. She didn’t find out until years later that both her family and my father would have supported her completely - which they both proved a few years later when a similar scenario occurred with my sister. My dad married her anyway, and to see the pictures of him holding her after she was born, I didn’t know for nearly twenty years of my life that he wasn’t her dad. Sadly, she died at six weeks, and unfortunately my mom’s scars from her abortion ripped open in her heart when that happened, believing she was being punished for what she’d done. It took a great deal of patience and compassion on my father’s part, and my own coming into the world and surviving, to help change her mind of that.Your mother wishes someone “had been there for her, to talk to and offer encouraging words, support, and not just ‘well, it’s up to you, it’s your choice, after all’.” If her abortion took place after Roe, it was her choice. Where was the father of the fetus? You say this was your brother who was aborted - was his father your father? Where was her family? Was she truly alone? Did she receive counseling? Is she Catholic? Did she see a priest? There’s much about this story that we don’t know and so we cannot get an accurate picture of what happened.
I share my mother’s story as I just have, as well as my own. I never had an abortion, but my mother’s abortion affected my life. While I had the fortune not to have lived such a dark and sad life as yours, it is still mine, and the pain and trouble is my pain and therefor significant to me. My father has his story to tell, as well, his regret in not having had the chance to tell my mother that he would have loved that baby as his own in time to save it, the pain in the fact that they’d never been able to have a child after me, and never the financial security to adopt.When you talk to people, do you share your story, or do you share your mother’s story? What, then, is your story?
I am truly sorry for what you’ve gone through, and I appreciate your sharing your story. It helps me and everyone else here know where you’re coming from.Only when I am asked, I share my story. A Roman Catholic child, I was repeatedly sexually assaulted from age nine, incested by my brother, left home at 18 without a clue with regard to the function of the female reproductive system, pregnant within that year. Already an alcoholic and recreational drug user, I had an abortion at 19, became an addict, and traveled in a world of alcoholism and addiction and dealers and other illegal features until I sobered up at 32. While drinking I married a drunk who had had four wives before me. We were sober when our daughter was born. She is now 22 years old. She has never been on a date. She largely distrusts men, a cue she took from me and ran with. She carries within her heart a faint fairy tale of lasting love, but she has never seen it. Nor will I.
Even if I could never change the law, I would still protest, because it is a cause worth protesting. I am not focusing my entire attention on that side of things, as I believe I’ve demonstrated. I’m not exhausting myself on a lost cause. 40 Days for Life has succeeded in saving quite a number of children, given hope back to hopeless mothers and families, changed the hearts of clinic workers and abortionists, and has even had a hand in shutting down numerous clinics. All through simple prayer and a peaceful presence outside of these clinics, with smiling faces, open ears and arms, and directions to the nearest crisis pregnancy center. These people take classes in sidewalk counseling, and even help clinic workers to find new jobs when they express the interest in quitting.**So, what difference do you think you’re making in the legal ring? Anything moving there? It doesn’t matter whether your efforts are adequate in my eyes. You have decided these are things you want to do to support a cause that you’re very passionate about. This comes to you, by the way, through a powerful vehicle called CHOICE.
Limerick **