Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

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limerick said:
“To whom much is given much is expected.”

**That answers my question.

Some are given little. Some are given nothing.

I guess their struggles to just keep existing is what must “please” God.

Limerick**
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Limerick: You got it! By George she got it.

Exactly. It is this easy. Grace is the key. Some are given little and some much. According to God’s will. Not one person is given “nothing”. We are all something and that is also the key. A Child of God is not “nothing”. Ever. We are precious in His sight. And always there is the chance of conversion and redemption. That is a choice we are free (will) to make.

The struggle to exist in the light of God and according to His will is what pleases Him more than anything else.

As in the Outcasts in Calcutta that Mother Teresa worked with. They existed to live and they died the best way they could. This simplicity in the complete trust in God is very pleasing to Him. So was Mother Theresa’s acts of charity to help them die with dignity. Can we change the world? No, but He can one soul at a time.
So, your quotes were right on. Knew you would get it! Good for you. :clapping:
 
One thing that seems to be mentioned when we talk about abortion on here is how badly it hurts the mother -how much mental anguish she will go through, the night mares she’ll have - how if it was a vaccuum aspiration how she will freak out whenever she hears someone hoovering, etc. etc, I won’t even go into the medical problems that are inferred will happen. I will agree that there are many women out there that currently regret their abortions, but there are millions out there that had nade the choice to have an abortion and have had no ill after effects. Some of the ads I’ve seen, expecially on EWTN make it sound as if the next logical step after having an abortion is that your life will get so much worse in one way or another. I’m sorry, but I believe the majority of the people out there that have had an abortion have no extra problems after words - there may be many that get out there and march with their signs saying “I regret my abortion” and if that’s how they feel then kudos - but please don’t assume or imply that every woman or even the majority of women that have abortions are going to have all these horrible things happen to them. To many, it’s a choice they felt had to be made. Don’t get me wrong, I wish that people wouldn’t use an abortion as a form of birth control - just because there are so many other methods and ways out there to prevent pregnancy (if someone is intent on having sex) - and this may seem odd to someone reading this post but if I knew someone that was pregnant and considering abortion I would tell them to go with their concience but if they decided to continue the pregnancy, I would help her out all I could and even volunteer to adopt. But if she does go through with the abortion, I would never try to guilt her into feeling badly about the abortion (which I believe is what some of those commercials about abortion are trying to do). I just don’t think it’s right for someone to try to try to convince women that if they have an abortion all or many of these consequences will occur. I have no doubt that there are some on here who do regret having an abortion - but again in ther world there are millions that look at an abortion as something that was necessary in their life at this/that time. For some it’s a very difficult decision and I don’t think they should be guilted into feeling one way or another.
God Bless-
Ryecroft aka Annie
 
ryecroft said:
I just don’t think it’s right for someone to try to convince women that if they have an abortion all or many of these consequences will occur.
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Shouldn’t a person know the possible consequences of a medical proceedure they’re about or considering to undergo? All of those medication commercials list a ghastly number of possible side effects, but they aren’t saying that everyone will undergo them; still, the patient legally needs to know the consequences so that he/she can weigh the options and make an educated and informed decision.

And sorry, but when it comes to trying to save a baby’s life, considering the fact that the vast majority of these pro-life people are also putting forth a great deal of effort and financial support to these women should they choose life, telling them that there’s a high possibility aborting their baby will come back to haunt them is not going to weigh heavily on the conscience.

My mom didn’t regret hers right away. She went on with life as usual. It was when her first daughter died at six weeks, and then she and my father couldn’t conceive for three years, that the abortion nearly ruined her life.
 
And while we can have sympathy for women who have had abortions, let’s also please not sugar-coat the fact that abortion destroys an innocent life and is no ordinary ‘medical procedure.’
 
ryecroft said:
and this may seem odd to someone reading this post but if I knew someone that was pregnant and considering abortion I would tell them to go with their conscience
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how do you think the conscience is formed? Do you think it’s just between God and the person? See, this is the problem I have with the non-interventionist stance. People don’t realize that a person’s conscience is formed by the entire essence of God…this includes natural inclinations written on our hearts, the acquisition of knowledge, formation in the faith, prayer, and also the experiences and insights acquired through the interaction with the entire Body of Christ (that’s us). What’s more, for many people, the only positive influence on their conscience comes from this latter element, as many are often without faith, without proper knowledge, without formation. We’re all they’ve got sometimes.

If we are devout in our faith, I believe we have a duty to recognize that we are supposed to have an influence on others, and are called to respond to critical moral issues arising in our neighbors. To deny this obligation is to deny a big part of our faith, IMHO. God doesn’t want us to abandon our neighbor when life is on the line, He wants us as instruments of His grace and sphere of influence to show others the light of truth. It’s not supposed to be just every one out there fending for themselves, folks. We’re not always supposed to wait for permission to get involved. We’re supposed to be a unified Body working together. Let us not hide under the cloak of “live and let live”…not when it comes to these major issues, at least.
 
Sailor_Kenshin said:
And while we can have sympathy for women who have had abortions, let’s also please not sugar-coat the fact that abortion destroys an innocent life and is no ordinary ‘medical procedure.’
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But it is an ordinary medical procedure. Fifty million and counting, didn’t someone say? I’d say it’s more routine than heart surgery or brain surgery or gall bladder surgery. Wouldn’t you, Sailor Kenshin?

Limerick
 
limerick said:
But it is an ordinary medical procedure. Fifty million and counting, didn’t someone say? I’d say it’s more routine than heart surgery or brain surgery or gall bladder surgery. Wouldn’t you, Sailor Kenshin?

Limerick
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a “procedure” with nearly a 0 percent survival rate.
 
limerick said:
Yes. That is the point of abortion, a routine medical procedure. Nearly zero percent survival rate, and nearly one hundred percent effective.

Limerick
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It’s a circular argument, Limerick, because a medical procedure is defined as a procedure done by a medical or dental practitioner. However, I would say that abortion is not a part of “medicine” proper as it has been commonly defined through the ages. In fact, abortion goes right against the Hippocratic Oath:

I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
 
St_Francis said:
It’s a circular argument, Limerick, because a medical procedure is defined as a procedure done by a medical or dental practitioner. However, I would say that abortion is not a part of “medicine” proper as it has been commonly defined through the ages. In fact, abortion goes right against the Hippocratic Oath:

I swear by Apollo, the healer, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath and agreement:
To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.
I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.
I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.
But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.
I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.
In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.
All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.
If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.
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**
I am not going to argue in favor of abortion or congratulate doctors who are able to reconcile the act in their own minds and hearts as they perform abortions.

I am for choice, every person’s right granted by virtue of his or her own free will, to live according to their own moral guidelines, their own consciences, their own acceptance of whatever consequences may arise as a result of actions taken. In this society abortion is legal. Not every woman, nor every man involved in an unplanned pregnancy, will embrace the “life begins at conception” platform. The law says they are within their rights to have an abortion. No one has to like it. I can speak from experience in saying that none of these women likes it. Many women do believe that “life begins at conception” but are compelled, for a thousand reasons, to proceed with the abortion anyway. Some will consider abortion and decide that it is too radical, or immoral on some personal level, and they will opt for another course of action.

Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath. Some choose to perform abortions anyway. If you want to know how a doctor lives with himself or herself while trying to straddle this fence, you would have to ask that doctor. I am not here to support or defend him. I suppose some are in it for financial gain; some see a need and fill it. Ask the doctors, not Limerick.

L**
 
limerick said:
I am for choice, every person’s right granted by virtue of his or her own free will, to live according to their own moral guidelines, their own consciences, their own acceptance of whatever consequences may arise as a result of actions taken. Many women do believe that “life begins at conception” but are compelled, for a thousand reasons, to proceed with the abortion anyway. Some will consider abortion and decide that it is too radical, or immoral on some personal level, and they will opt for another course of action.
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These “thousands of reasons” originate from people (family, friends, society at large), many of whom take a direct line to the woman to encourage abortion (Planned Parenthood is the public version of this, but hundreds of thousands of every-day folks are engaging these women also. That’s why I stated before that we have to remember that a person’s conscience (a person’s moral fiber) is not developed in a vacuum, and a large part of it involves a person’s relationship and interaction with people, where they absorb, filter and reject or accept much of what society encourages, whether good or bad. So my questions, L, are these…

Do you have a beef with people whose actions in society collectively work toward the encouragement of having an abortion? Do you have a beef with Planned Parenthood?

Are pro-life people not allowed to help form a woman’s conscience, but pro-choice people are allowed to help her?

Are you upset at pro-life methods of helping…because they seem to you to be intervening in an unwelcome manner? If so, how would you define the pro-choice methods?
 
limerick said:
**Perhaps. But can you argue against it?

L**
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Abortion is no more of a medical procedure than lethal injection or gassing of political prisoners. Would you call what Jack the Ripper or Jeffrey Dahlmer did a “medical procedure” also?
 
limerick said:
**
I am not going to argue in favor of abortion or congratulate doctors who are able to reconcile the act in their own minds and hearts as they perform abortions.

I am for choice, every person’s right granted by virtue of his or her own free will, to live according to their own moral guidelines, their own consciences, their own acceptance of whatever consequences may arise as a result of actions taken. In this society abortion is legal. Not every woman, nor every man involved in an unplanned pregnancy, will embrace the “life begins at conception” platform. The law says they are within their rights to have an abortion. No one has to like it. I can speak from experience in saying that none of these women likes it. Many women do believe that “life begins at conception” but are compelled, for a thousand reasons, to proceed with the abortion anyway. Some will consider abortion and decide that it is too radical, or immoral on some personal level, and they will opt for another course of action.

Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath. Some choose to perform abortions anyway. If you want to know how a doctor lives with himself or herself while trying to straddle this fence, you would have to ask that doctor. I am not here to support or defend him. I suppose some are in it for financial gain; some see a need and fill it. Ask the doctors, not Limerick.

L**
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What about those who believe that life begins when a person is able to comprehend logic. Should those people be able exercise there “choice”
 
royal_archer said:
Abortion is no more of a medical procedure than lethal injection or gassing of political prisoners. Would you call what Jack the Ripper or Jeffrey Dahlmer did a “medical procedure” also?
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Not Jeffrey Dahmer, but three of the suspects for the WhiteChapel murders were doctors, so maybe so.

How about Dr Harold Shipman?
 
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