Anybody out there "pro-choice"?

[Eddie_Mac]

Well if you’re so gifted, why haven’t you helped me?

Limerick

I can’t. I told you that already.

No one, not even a therapist can help you unles youu are open and receptive to the help. No person can help you physically or mentally and certainly the Holy Spirit cannot help you spiritually unless you let Him.

God calls all of us, we have to answer.

He does not force us.

Jesus’ offer of mercy and forgiveness knows no limits. Everyone can receive endles quantities of HIs Grace and Mercy.

The worst sinners are the most deserving.

This is the second time I have told you this.

Eddie Mac

 

[limerick]

Unspeakable.

There is no defense for abortion. I don’t think you will be able to spin the truth that a baby is a baby from conception, not a fetus.

At one point, someone graciously ‘allowed’ you to be born. Yet you wish to stand in the way of the rights of others who seek only that same ‘privilege?’ Equally unspeakable.

**
I’m not standing in the way of anything, dear. All I endorse is that each person choose a course of action consistent with his or her conscience, which may or may not align with yours. Some will agree with you. Groovy. Others will not. Resist the urge to pout.

Limerick**

 

[limerick]

I can’t. I told you that already.

No one, not even a therapist can help you unles youu are open and receptive to the help. No person can help you physically or mentally and certainly the Holy Spirit cannot help you spiritually unless you let Him.

God calls all of us, we have to answer.

He does not force us.

Jesus’ offer of mercy and forgiveness knows no limits. Everyone can receive endles quantities of HIs Grace and Mercy.

The worst sinners are the most deserving.

This is the second time I have told you this.

Eddie Mac

Testy? You don’t seem very forgiving. Maybe you’re the one who needs therapy.

L

 

[royal_archer]

**Did someone just give you a dictionary and the only word contained therein is “disingenuous”? I’d be asking for a thesaurus if I were you. But, glad not to be you.

When** someone declares my life to be worthless? Who? And why worthless “to the state”? What scenario are you failing to set up? Take a little more time to explain your question and I will respond.

L

Should those who don’t like you be allowed to exercise a choice to abort you?

 

[royal_archer]

**
Are you thoroughly unconcerned with, say, the father in this matter? I endorse choice for the father, as well.

Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick**

And what if the father chooses for their “fetus” to be born?

 

[FanChan]

Eddie Mac:

I can’t. I told you that already.

No one, not even a therapist can help you unles youu are open and receptive to the help. No person can help you physically or mentally and certainly the Holy Spirit cannot help you spiritually unless you let Him.

God calls all of us, we have to answer.

He does not force us.

Jesus’ offer of mercy and forgiveness knows no limits. Everyone can receive endles quantities of HIs Grace and Mercy.

The worst sinners are the most deserving.

This is the second time I have told you this.

Eddie Mac

Testy? You don’t seem very forgiving. Maybe you’re the one who needs therapy.

L

Doesn’t seem testy to me. Unless you mean the last sentence. In which case, you’re rather testy, too, no?

I’m tired of having to take a wrench to all of your remarks. You’re smarter than that. I shouldn’t have to correct you every time you bolt out of the chute.

 

[royal_archer]

**
I’m not standing in the way of anything, dear. All I endorse is that each person choose a course of action consistent with his or her conscience, which may or may not align with yours. Some will agree with you. Groovy. Others will not. Resist the urge to pout.

Limerick**

So you approve of people blockading abortion mills?

 

[SteveGC]

**Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick**

L,

At one point in this thread, you told us you believe human life begins at conception. Couple questions:

• what’s the difference, to you (not society), between “fetus” and “baby”? Is it birth? Or human life deserving of lawful protection? Or both? Again…I’m talking about YOUR opinion…not the current legal system (or do your beliefs always mirror the law?)
• Do you personally agree with (not necessarily support, but agree with) the current legality of abortion? You may have addressed this earlier on in the thread, so I apologize if your response is a repeat. I guess a more hard target question would be…if you were the lawmaker of the land, would abortion be legal?

Thanks.

 

[royal_archer]

**
I will not see your logic because I do not live in a world of logic. To me it is mathematics and schedules and angles and hard surfaces. My life has been built upon my experiences. So, yes, I have personal history that has influenced my viewpoint. Who doesn’t?
…

Limerick**

For those trying to address this topic using logic and finding it to be a bit ineffective please consider this from post 410 in this thread.

 

[libbybeth]

It helps if you use the Quote button in the lower right-hand corner of the post you are responding to so that we know what you are responding to.

thats very helpful. Thanks

 

[elts1956]

**Perhaps. But can you argue against it?

L**

Can we argue against what? The reality that abortion is a sick practice? I recently asked my pharmacist if their pharmacy filled prescriptions for the B pill, the morning after the oops night before pill. He disgustedly said they do. He also said he had one woman who has gotten a prescription for the pill five times. Gee, I am so happy she has an out.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

**
I’m not standing in the way of anything, dear. All I endorse is that each person choose a course of action consistent with his or her conscience, which may or may not align with yours. Some will agree with you. Groovy. Others will not. Resist the urge to pout.

Limerick**

Bitterness and sarcasm do not change the truth one whit: the unborn baby is a life unto its own, and neither you, nor anyone else, has a moral ‘right’ to murder it, much as you would wish otherwise.

 

[St_Francis]

Can we argue against what? The reality that abortion is a sick practice? I recently asked my pharmacist if their pharmacy filled prescriptions for the B pill, the morning after the oops night before pill. He disgustedly said they do. He also said he had one woman who has gotten a prescription for the pill five times. Gee, I am so happy she has an out.

I remember in the 80s and 90s everyone was so worried about addiction. (I don’t know if it’s still a big thing because we don’t watch tv and live in the middle of nowhere.) They talked a lot about “enabling,” some here may remember that term. Here’s a woman whose gotten that prescription 5 times and no one thinks that’s enabling?

Planned Parenthood, the largest provider of abortions in the world is being exposed for its lack of *legal *response to signs of sexual abuse. They are willing to “overlook” the statements of young teenage girls that they are pregnant by much older men in order to get them to pay for an abortion. And yet it seems that the zeal to preserve a woman’s ability to kill her unborn child *overrides *the need to uncover instances of sexual abuse of minors.

Limerick herself stated that some women need abortions because they are in relationships which are already abusive and volatile. But society thinks its all right to kill an unborn child so a woman can preserve the facade that all is normal.

The wages of sin is death. In order to continue sinning, society has allowed death.

 

[limerick]

Should those who don’t like you be allowed to exercise a choice to abort you?

If someone decides that, for whatever reason, I have forfeited my privilege to live, and they are driven to take action, they will take action, no matter what I say or you say or the law says. If they are apprehended (because they will have broken the law that currently exists prohibiting the taking of a life if not in self-defense) then they will have consequences to pay.

Should they be allowed to? They are allowed to, by virtue of free will. Free will does not demand sound choice. God would likely be more “pleased” if we all chose the high road, but we don’t all do that all the time. But if an individual commits murder and is taken into custody, s/he will go through the system and pay the consequences.

Abortion is not illegal at this time.

Limerick

 

[fix]

newborn babies aren’t able to make choices either. they’re not developed enough yet.

The choices are made for them by people who want what is best for them. There is never a choice to kill them. Do you think the baby would say please kill me?

 

[fix]

(Mensa)

I see, so babies get no choice. That means anything goes.

 

[fix]

**No, you completely DISunderstand.

It is not only a select number of people who enjoy choice. It is everyone. I happen to count myself, due to my experience with abortion, among those women who have also chosen abortion. That does not mean other women cannot, and do not, choose to carry their pregnancies to term.

I’m tired of having to take a wrench to all of your remarks. You’re smarter than that. I shouldn’t have to correct you every time you bolt out of the chute.

Limerick**

The baby gets no choice and no protection. You can see if you choose to see.

 

[fix]

**
Are you thoroughly unconcerned with, say, the father in this matter? I endorse choice for the father, as well. **

And if the father wants no abortion and the mother does, what happens? Who gets the “choice”?**

Once again: we are talking about a fetus here. Before birth: fetus. After birth: baby. And yes, because it is unable to cast a vote on the subject, the “baby” gets no choice, not at this time in history, anyway.

Limerick

**Just like slavery. Basically, you are for “choice” for one person only. We are talking about life or death.

 

[SteveGC]

L,

Can you respond to #763 when you get a chance?

Thanks

 

[St_Francis]

If someone decides that, for whatever reason, I have forfeited my privilege to live, and they are driven to take action, they will take action, no matter what I say or you say or the law says. If they are apprehended (because they will have broken the law that currently exists prohibiting the taking of a life if not in self-defense) then they will have consequences to pay.

Should they be allowed to? They are allowed to, by virtue of free will. Free will does not demand sound choice. God would likely be more “pleased” if we all chose the high road, but we don’t all do that all the time. But if an individual commits murder and is taken into custody, s/he will go through the system and pay the consequences.

Abortion is not illegal at this time.

Limerick

First you say that if someone decides that you have forfeited —this would indicate that you have done something so heinous that you ought not to be allowed to continue to live. Suppose you have not done something like that? Suppose all you are doing is holding a job someone else wants to get, or know something about that person they don’t want to get out to the public or the police, or that they are first on a waiting list to a college or club?

Then you say privilege to live. You don’t think that people have a *right *to live–they only have a privilege?

You go on to say that [t]hey are allowed to, by virtue of free will. This is not a question of being “allowed” to. It is *not *allowed to randomly kill people who have been born: *no one *thinks that this is allowed by anyone. It is against the law; it is against morality. “Free will” is not some entity which can permit or forbid anything; it is a characteristic of human nature which allows us to become first causes of things. To use “free will” to rationalize any choice is to rationalize anything anyone does and to completely eliminate the ideas of good and evil, and is a *misuse *of one’s free will.

You have told us about many bad things which happened to you. From your descriptions, I would say that those actions were *evil, *that the people who did those things were doing exactly what you are doing now: deadening their consciences by rationalizing away the concept of evil.

You have also said that free will as a gift was therefore without strings attached, but you are wrong. God did not give us the gift of free will all alone; he gave us the gift of being first causes within the bounds of good. *That *is the gift. To accomplish this, He gave us the *combination *of free will and conscience, right and wrong written upon the heart. The two together are one gift. The fact that some abuse that one gift is a *misuse *of that gift.