Anyone else think the liberalization of the Tridentine Mass is not coming?

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rien

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Just a hunch. The delays now are almost a joke. I think the Vatican realizes if they tried this they would meet such opposition from western Bishops it would make Humane Vitae look like nothing. The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

IMO it comes down to the Vatican wanting to continue to pretend it has control over the church. If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.

I don’t think it is going to happen.

Just like the Vatican backed down over communion to those who support abortion, I think it is a lost cause now. And I am not even a traditionalist.
 
rien said:
Just a hunch. The delays now are almost a joke. I think the Vatican realizes if they tried this they would meet such opposition from western Bishops it would make Humane Vitae look like nothing. The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

IMO it comes down to the Vatican wanting to continue to pretend it has control over the church. If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.

I don’t think it is going to happen.

Just like the Vatican backed down over communion to those who support abortion, I think it is a lost cause now. And I am not even a traditionalist.
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I hope you’re wrong…
 
rien said:
Just a hunch. The delays now are almost a joke. I think the Vatican realizes if they tried this they would meet such opposition from western Bishops it would make Humane Vitae look like nothing. The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

IMO it comes down to the Vatican wanting to continue to pretend it has control over the church. If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.

I don’t think it is going to happen.

Just like the Vatican backed down over communion to those who support abortion, I think it is a lost cause now. And I am not even a traditionalist.
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because in reality it is not necessary…there already is a valid Mass
 
thecoach said:
because in reality it is not necessary…there already is a valid Mass
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Didn’t say the Novus Ordo was invalid. Both forms are valid. So yes, the Tridentine may not be necessary. Like I said I am not a traditionalist. I just think that the current Pope will pass on this and that will ultimately be the end of any signficiant Tridente Rite presence in the church for good or bad. The writing is on the wall.
 
rien said:
The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.
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But the current indult gives bishops the say over whether the Tridentine Rite may be celebrated in their diocese. The point of the Motu Proprio is to basically eliminate the bishops’ chance to refuse… so i’m not sure what you mean by this.
 
The liberalization of the Tridentine Mass will happen. Already there is one order of priests who celebrate the Latin mass only, and it has the approval of the diocese and Rome. I attend this mass regularly, and my parish has the honor of Oratory. There are a great many people who attend this traditional mass and the numbers are growing. People are seeking the sacred and the traditions of the Catholic faith that so many others have stripped away.
 
Spirithound said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rien
The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.

But the current indult gives bishops the say over whether the Tridentine Rite may be celebrated in their diocese. The point of the Motu Proprio is to basically eliminate the bishops’ chance to refuse… so i’m not sure what you mean by this.
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Could be–a bishop like that–would find a way to eliminate any priest who is willing to offer the TLM.
 
rien said:
The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.
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I’m sure the Holy Father has taken that into account. We don’t know how the M.P. will deal with this issue yet and it’s an important one. We haven’t ruled out an Apostolic Administration for this. Similar to the one in Campos. Or perhaps parallel to the Eastern Rites.
 
thecoach said:
because in reality it is not necessary…there already is a valid Mass
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By your Logic the Novus Ordo Missae isn’t necessary.

There was already a valid Mass… which was not a fabrication, organically from the earliest times in the Church. Instead its been replaced with, what the present Holy Father himself (then Cardinal Ratzinger) referred to as, a “banal and on the spot product”.
 
rien said:
Just a hunch. The delays now are almost a joke. I think the Vatican realizes if they tried this they would meet such opposition from western Bishops it would make Humane Vitae look like nothing. The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

IMO it comes down to the Vatican wanting to continue to pretend it has control over the church. If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.

I don’t think it is going to happen.

Just like the Vatican backed down over communion to those who support abortion, I think it is a lost cause now. And I am not even a traditionalist.
Click to expand...
You are wrong. If the Holy Father can’t control any individual Diocese, the Bishop can easily be replaced.

Besides that, there are too many official statement coming out about this to think it will not happen.

Such opposition from Western Bishops should result in immediate removal from their Diocese and excommunication if they continue to rebel. This goes especially for any Bishop or Archbishop in the US who thinks he knows better than the Holy Ghost and the Holy Father.

Those of you who live in St. Louis should thank God for Archbishop Burke. What a wonderful leader and man he truly is.
 
mgrobertson79 said:
You are wrong. If the Holy Father can’t control any individual Diocese, the Bishop can easily be replaced.
Besides that, there are too many official statement coming out about this to think it will not happen.

Such opposition from Western Bishops should result in immediate removal from their Diocese and excommunication if they continue to rebel. This goes especially for any Bishop or Archbishop in the US who thinks he knows better than the Holy Ghost and the Holy Father.

Those of you who live in St. Louis should thank God for Archbishop Burke. What a wonderful leader and man he truly is.
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How long has Card. Mahoney—basicly flicked off the Pope. He has his own little papacy in his diocese—yet he is still there—creating havoc.
 
Spirithound said:
But the current indult gives bishops the say over whether the Tridentine Rite may be celebrated in their diocese. The point of the Motu Proprio is to basically eliminate the bishops’ chance to refuse… so i’m not sure what you mean by this.
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Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but can’t the Bishop still refuse the use of the Church for the TLM when the MP comes out?
 
rrbond07 said:
The liberalization of the Tridentine Mass will happen. Already there is one order of priests who celebrate the Latin mass only, and it has the approval of the diocese and Rome. I attend this mass regularly, and my parish has the honor of Oratory. There are a great many people who attend this traditional mass and the numbers are growing. People are seeking the sacred and the traditions of the Catholic faith that so many others have stripped away.
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There are more than one. FSSP, ICRSS and don’t forget, the SSPX!
 
mgrobertson79 said:
You are wrong. If the Holy Father can’t control any individual Diocese, the Bishop can easily be replaced.

.
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If this were only the case. All one needs to do is look at the L.A. diocese for an example of an out-of-control Bishop whom His Holiness can’t or won’t replace.
 
timjp77 said:
If this were only the case. All one needs to do is look at the L.A. diocese for an example of an out-of-control Bishop whom His Holiness can’t or won’t replace.
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Which begs the question: Why is he still there? Is it a case of can’t or won’t?
 
The topic is not which bishops are not to our liking, which is not a topic allowed on the board, in any case. Please stay on topic or I will close the thread. Thank you.
 
rien said:
Just a hunch. The delays now are almost a joke. I think the Vatican realizes if they tried this they would meet such opposition from western Bishops it would make Humane Vitae look like nothing. The bishop here has made it clear there will be no Trientine Masses in his diocese.

IMO it comes down to the Vatican wanting to continue to pretend it has control over the church. If they liberalize the Tridentine Mass availability and most bishops refuse it would basically confirm what some of us suspect.
Click to expand...
The change from “all bishops may permit the Tridentine Mass” to “all bishops may ban the Tridentine Mass” is a small one in legal impact but a big change psychologically.
I think the Pope needs to get his politicing right so that a bishop can ban the Tridentine Mass without it being seen as a snub to the Holy See, even if really it is. Then the dioceses where the TLM is banned will slowly come to be seen as more and more unusual.
 
Malcolm_McLean said:
The change from “all bishops may permit the Tridentine Mass” to “all bishops may ban the Tridentine Mass” is a small one in legal impact but a big change psychologically.
I think the Pope needs to get his politicing right so that a bishop can ban the Tridentine Mass without it being seen as a snub to the Holy See, even if really it is. Then the dioceses where the TLM is banned will slowly come to be seen as more and more unusual.
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I totally agree with you, it is becoming a who is for or who is against but it has been liberated allready. Our city has cluster parishs now 5 plus one priest who does the nursing home so 6 priests. The diocese said now take care of each other,
so there may be enough people who want to make a church a TLM. Before the diocese has been doing head counts at the masses , we knew when the KofC were walking around with their clipboards. So it is not really a ban just a well as long as the people want one but put them all together in one church which the others who want to keep the NO also want all of them in their own church. Eventually it will die out as if their is not enough to sustain it, so it will ban itself out.

Meanwhile if we get a TLM in a church they also like some of the NO so they will complain that they don’t for example have an organist. They can’t have everything their own way. Or they complain too many word and communion, not enough priests, etc. they want missals but they cost money so they will more than likely buy their own etc.

So our bishop has not banned the TLM that I know of but will make the people get it together on their own and they will I believe. I sort of see it as becoming an independent Catholic sort of thing, get some one with mone buy the building make their own rules claim they are original and I know of one , not here but an hour away that are doin just that. They bought the school next door and will be on their way. Isn’t his a sort of succeeding away from the church? Dessert
 
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