Anyone feel like they won't ever get married?

[bookish]

Oh yeah. Sometimes I think I’m looking for unicorns when I wonder if there are any Catholic men out there who follow church teaching (willing to wait for marriage, willing to practice NFP–those two requirements alone are enough to scare off the majority of guys). Not to mention kind. :whacky:

It can be very discouraging.

 

[Trishie]

Father, in Jesus’ name please help all those on this thread to find suitable, good Catholic spouses in lasting happy marriages.

 

[Podo2005]

Just as the thread title says. Also, some married people now, did you have such thoughts when you were younger. I do not mean this in a way such as a vocation regarding celibacy, but rather that they won’t ever find someone and doomed to live a single life.

Of course this depends on whether you feel the ‘single life’ is ‘doom’ - Personally, for me, I do.

Don’t give up bro, if God has instilled in your heart the desire to be married then you will eventually get married, when the Lord wants you too however. Now in saying that you can’t just give up and say you’ll be doomed to a single life, put your trust in the Lord and He will show you the right woman at the right time that He feels you should get married.

God Bless

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Don’t give up bro, if God has instilled in your heart the desire to be married then you will eventually get married, when the Lord wants you too however.

For some of us, apparently, that may happen at age 60, or 70, or 80.

 

[marietta]

Podo2005:

I don’t understand the concept of someone living a single life as being “doomed”. It may not be what you want for yourself at this time, but there are many people who tried marriage and found that life to be a “doomed” existence. Seems like we always want what we don’t have. Then we get it and we don’t want it any longer.

Just try to be content to live the life God has been generous enough to give you, with or without a partner. There are far worse things in this life than living, and being, alone.

marietta

 

[agapewolf]

Podo2005:

There are far worse things in this life than living, and being, alone.

marietta

That is completely relative. When one is designed by God to be extremely extroverted and have the vocation of marriage, living alone is excruciating. I’m not exaggerating. This is not an issue of knowing one’s own value. I know my value as a child of God. but my psycho-sexual energy (and this is not about sexual needs, but human relational needs) gets screwed up when I go a day without talking with someone.

I have a decent amount of friends, and currently I do not have a roommate. I have to work hard at making sure I get enough human interaction every day so that I am able to sleep peacefully at night. I find I grow to be a better person when I have consistent relationships. I can’t count on others who are not married to me to fill those needs. And yes, they are needs put there by God to be filled by someone else.

This is about a peaceful existence as self in relation to others. I hate to eat at home alone night after night. Of course that leads to lonelines, but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about an extrovert that has emotional needs to be filled that can only be filled by a spouse. Not having those needs filled screws with the brain. A lot. It’s unfortunate that that disturbance to people is chalked up as someone being “needy” or “insecure” in that sense. That to me is what is really messed up right now…folks not realizing that those are actually very healthy needs given to us by God.

 

[Norseman82]

That is completely relative. When one is designed by God to be extremely extroverted and have the vocation of marriage, living alone is excruciating. I’m not exaggerating. This is not an issue of knowing one’s own value. I know my value as a child of God. but my psycho-sexual energy (and this is not about sexual needs, but human relational needs) gets screwed up when I go a day without talking with someone.

I have a decent amount of friends, and currently I do not have a roommate. I have to work hard at making sure I get enough human interaction every day so that I am able to sleep peacefully at night. I find I grow to be a better person when I have consistent relationships. I can’t count on others who are not married to me to fill those needs. And yes, they are needs put there by God to be filled by someone else.

This is about a peaceful existence as self in relation to others. I hate to eat at home alone night after night. Of course that leads to lonelines, but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about an extrovert that has emotional needs to be filled that can only be filled by a spouse. Not having those needs filled screws with the brain. A lot. It’s unfortunate that that disturbance to people is chalked up as someone being “needy” or “insecure” in that sense. That to me is what is really messed up right now…folks not realizing that those are actually very healthy needs given to us by God.

+1.

Many people seem to think that we start out vocationless and have to search like in the Star Trek episode “Return of the Archons” all crying “Landrieu, guide us” when the computer is destroyed. The Church teaches that marriage is the vocation placed in our nature by God (CCC 1603), and once we realize that, we can properly do the next step in our discernment which is to discern whether we have a vocation other than marriage. If we determine that we do not have a vocation other than marriage, then trying to find a spouse is not an indicator of being “needy” or “insecure” or “not whole” with one’s self (and I do not know if these concepts even existed until about 20-30 years ago), but rather us simply responding to what God has planted within our nature. After all, it is God who said “It is not good for the man to be alone”.

 

[Lady_Bug]

I agree 100% with agapewolf and Norseman.

Another thing that really bothers me is if someone were to say that if my desire for marriage is that overwhelming, it means your relationship with God is not #1 in your life, etc.

No one said that to me or anything, but I’ve seen that attitude on the internet here and there. They are of the mindset that you don’t need anyone, all you need is God. Whatever.

 

[Magicsilence]

They are of the mindset that you don’t need anyone, all you need is God. Whatever.

Well, this actually is true in a sense. I know that when people hurt me, I take comfort that no matter what, God will be there to heal my wounds.

At the same time, I think living in a community is necessary for most people to be able to use their talents, and many do so within marriage.

Do most people experience an intense longing for companionship at some point in their lives? Yes, but if its not recognised in relation to God, it can be an indication that something is not right.

 

[marietta]

agapewolf:

What would be the absolute worst consequence you would suffer if you were to “go a day without talking to someone”?

It doesn’t sound like there are many seconds left in your day for introspection. Or is that something you can do while on the phone or taking care of busness at the bank or chatting up the cashier at the Home Depot?

Sounds like you’re running. Just curious.

marietta

 

[Morwenna]

For those who are praying along with me for the future marriage intentions of those on the thread, here is an updated list:

Harmony1988
beckers
ladylinguist
Norseman82
chevalier
Gisella
Sierrah
JustinL
Felicity in TX
azgirl
Cosmo23
lampstand
Morwenna
Alan
Trevor
bookish
CarolAnnSFO
agapewolf
Lady Bug
Taya (Ambrose)
unixfudotnet
catherine m
macian
LSK
Belgarion
and all others who are not mentioned.

I am praying for each of us by (screen)name as often as possible.

I am praying that God will make each of us ready for our future spouse (and them ready for us), lead us to each other, and to pour out grace upon us to give us strength and hope while we’re waiting. :heaven:

Thank you to all who are joining in prayer for these intentions. If I’ve missed anyone, or if anyone would like to be added to this list, please post here or send me a PM … same applies to anyone who is on the list and wants to be removed (I certainly don’t want to offend or make anyone uncomfortable!).

May Our Lord bless these intentions, and may the Blessed Virgin Mary and St Joseph intercede for us.

 

[Lady_Bug]

thank you for adding me to the prayer list. It’s an empty Friday night over here and it’s nice to see that.

 

[Morwenna]

If we determine that we do not have a vocation other than marriage, then trying to find a spouse is not an indicator of being “needy” or “insecure” or “not whole” with one’s self (and I do not know if these concepts even existed until about 20-30 years ago), but rather us simply responding to what God has planted within our nature. After all, it is God who said “It is not good for the man to be alone”.

The bolded section is a good example of how the secular (or, to use an older terminology, “worldly”) mindset has become so pervasive in our society … many of us accept it without realizing its true origin.

A strong desire for marriage is a healthy desire, a fulfillment of a vocation, not a “crisis of self-esteem” (or whatever the latest pop-psychology book might call it).

 

[Morwenna]

thank you for adding me to the prayer list. It’s an empty Friday night over here and it’s nice to see that.

You are most welcome, Lady Bug

I’m also home alone tonight, but this forum is a great comfort to me while I’m waiting for my future husband to come and claim me

 

[agapewolf]

agapewolf:

What would be the absolute worst consequence you would suffer if you were to “go a day without talking to someone”?

It doesn’t sound like there are many seconds left in your day for introspection. Or is that something you can do while on the phone or taking care of busness at the bank or chatting up the cashier at the Home Depot?

Sounds like you’re running. Just curious.

marietta

Running? What in the world do you mean by that? Even though your post is a bit presumptious as to how I live my life, I will answer. I have no idea how you assumed that I dont’ have time for introspection? I work at a church for goodness sake. I go to adoration just about every day! All I said was that I grow better in conversation. I’m extroverted. thats how we process. very presumptious…

I already answered this question, in many ways, but I guess I’ll elaborate if I must. I already talked about my growth happens when I have consistent relationships. The kind that can not possibly happen by a friend who has their own vocation and priorities. I’m talking about someone I talk to every day. I really am able to see myself grow and learn about myself more when I have that consistent sounding board. This is just grazing the surface. This is the introspection that happens…in conversation

The “absolute worst” thing that could happen, well, if I must go through it, it will sound like psycho babble possibly, but I swear it is very true. I learned this from ministry training from a psycho therapist priest (not a liberal one…not new agey). However, these concepts are very well accepted by the wider psychological community:

We all have a bucket of full libido every day. (not sex drive, but “psycho sexual” energy)…meaning, every time we brush our teeth, we dip into it, every chore, etc. 50% of that MUST be spent in emotional relationship with other people. (a little give in that number depending on the person.) If we dont’, we possibly won’t sleep peacefully, but in addition, we wake up the next day with “toxic libido”. THis harms our peace, we are also more open to spiritual attacks. It’s kind of like trying to drive when tired or tipsy. Ever heard of “HALT”? hungry, angry, lonely, tired. When one of those needs is there, we are more susceptable. so that is the worst thing that could happen. and thats pretty serious.

This is just one day. You compound that by EVERY DAY living, day after day, then things get really screwed up. A simple hello at a store does not suffice, especially for an extrovert. A friendly phone call helps, but as I said before, that does not fill my needs. I solve problems by talking them out. I process information by talking it out. Serious introverts might not understand this, but this is a very real type of person.

Please in the future do not fill in the gaps and make such presumptions.

 

[Trishie]

Father, in Jesus’ name please help all those on this thread to find suitable, good Catholic spouses in lasting happy marriages.

 

[marietta]

agapewolf:

You have been told that, every day, 50% of a person’s psychosexual energy (libido) “MUST be spent in emotional relationship with other people” (give/take considering the psychological make-up of the individual). Why? What does the introvert do with that energy? And does the quality of the social or physical interaction with the other party figure in to the equation, or must we just expend that energy however we can with the focus on keeping our own equilibrium?

Working at a church and carving out time for true self-examination are not necessarily mutually exclusive but they do not always go hand-in-hand. If personal growth is a byproduct of working with others then that is a gift. If personal growth is the purpose of working with others then one’s motivation might demand an evaluation.

Do you believe one purpose of marriage is for one spouse to completely, consistently and selflessly fill all emotional needs for the other spouse? Maybe I was wrong: maybe instead of running away from quiet self-examination with only you and God participating, you are running toward some unrealistic fantasy with your partner being nothing but a geisha. If the woman you finally come to love cannot be herself in your midst she will not stay. She will have her own needs and desires which may conflict with yours. Can you truly compromise and “sleep at night”?

Marriage is not a solution here. Acceptance of God’s will for you at this moment is the solution. When He thinks you are ready to share your life with another He will put her within your reach. Until that time, ask yourself: “What is my agenda? Do I want to share my life or subject another human being to it?”

I read your description of yourself and your predicament and see that I was married to a man very much like you in many ways. I thought it was love. He thought it was a safe haven. I thought it was a partnership. He thought it was an opportunity to control money, sexuality, spiritual choice, parenting decisions. I thought he was suffocating. He thought I was unreasonable. I sought the assistance of an attorney. He feigned regret. We divorced. He has disowned his daughter.

I’m not telling you not to pursue marriage. I’m suggesting that desperation, and the hidden agenda that is driven by it, kills a relationship almost as fast as money problems. Don’t you think God is smart enough to put her in your life when you are ready?

marietta

 

[agapewolf]

agapewolf:

You have been told that, every day, 50% of a person’s psychosexual energy (libido) “MUST be spent in emotional relationship with other people” (give/take considering the psychological make-up of the individual). Why? What does the introvert do with that energy? And does the quality of the social or physical interaction with the other party figure in to the equation, or must we just expend that energy however we can with the focus on keeping our own equilibrium?

Working at a church and carving out time for true self-examination are not necessarily mutually exclusive but they do not always go hand-in-hand. If personal growth is a byproduct of working with others then that is a gift. If personal growth is the purpose of working with others then one’s motivation might demand an evaluation.

Do you believe one purpose of marriage is for one spouse to completely, consistently and selflessly fill all emotional needs for the other spouse? Maybe I was wrong: maybe instead of running away from quiet self-examination with only you and God participating, you are running toward some unrealistic fantasy with your partner being nothing but a geisha. If the woman you finally come to love cannot be herself in your midst she will not stay. She will have her own needs and desires which may conflict with yours. Can you truly compromise and “sleep at night”?

Marriage is not a solution here. Acceptance of God’s will for you at this moment is the solution. When He thinks you are ready to share your life with another He will put her within your reach. Until that time, ask yourself: “What is my agenda? Do I want to share my life or subject another human being to it?”

I read your description of yourself and your predicament and see that I was married to a man very much like you in many ways. I thought it was love. He thought it was a safe haven. I thought it was a partnership. He thought it was an opportunity to control money, sexuality, spiritual choice, parenting decisions. I thought he was suffocating. He thought I was unreasonable. I sought the assistance of an attorney. He feigned regret. We divorced. He has disowned his daughter.

I’m not telling you not to pursue marriage. I’m suggesting that desperation, and the hidden agenda that is driven by it, kills a relationship almost as fast as money problems. Don’t you think God is smart enough to put her in your life when you are ready?

marietta

how dare you make such judgements about me. You are so darn presumptious.

No, of course I don’t believe marriage solves all problems. Again, you are making such outlandish claims and twisting my words to make staw man arguments.

and by the way, I am female. Get your facts straight before going off in such a way.

This is so outlandish for you to be making such judgements and such a condescending nature. Your “Sensing” meter is way way way off.

 

[Norseman82]

agapewolf:

You have been told that, every day, 50% of a person’s psychosexual energy (libido) “MUST be spent in emotional relationship with other people” (give/take considering the psychological make-up of the individual). Why? What does the introvert do with that energy? And does the quality of the social or physical interaction with the other party figure in to the equation, or must we just expend that energy however we can with the focus on keeping our own equilibrium?

Working at a church and carving out time for true self-examination are not necessarily mutually exclusive but they do not always go hand-in-hand. If personal growth is a byproduct of working with others then that is a gift. If personal growth is the purpose of working with others then one’s motivation might demand an evaluation.

Do you believe one purpose of marriage is for one spouse to completely, consistently and selflessly fill all emotional needs for the other spouse? Maybe I was wrong: maybe instead of running away from quiet self-examination with only you and God participating, you are running toward some unrealistic fantasy with your partner being nothing but a geisha. If the woman you finally come to love cannot be herself in your midst she will not stay. She will have her own needs and desires which may conflict with yours. Can you truly compromise and “sleep at night”?

Marriage is not a solution here. Acceptance of God’s will for you at this moment is the solution. When He thinks you are ready to share your life with another He will put her within your reach. Until that time, ask yourself: “What is my agenda? Do I want to share my life or subject another human being to it?”

I read your description of yourself and your predicament and see that I was married to a man very much like you in many ways. I thought it was love. He thought it was a safe haven. I thought it was a partnership. He thought it was an opportunity to control money, sexuality, spiritual choice, parenting decisions. I thought he was suffocating. He thought I was unreasonable. I sought the assistance of an attorney. He feigned regret. We divorced. He has disowned his daughter.

I’m not telling you not to pursue marriage. I’m suggesting that desperation, and the hidden agenda that is driven by it, kills a relationship almost as fast as money problems. Don’t you think God is smart enough to put her in your life when you are ready?

marietta

First, agapewolf is a she.

Second, she did say that she spent time in Eucharistic adoration almost daily.

Third, do you have some private line to God regarding His will for agapewolf’s life?

Fourth, I acknowledge that you do have some life experience regarding what you went through regarding your marriage/divorce. However, it would be put to better use by simply giving advice on how to avoid marrying the wrong person instead of faulting people for wanting marriage in the first place. As has been posted before, the desire for marriage is placed into us by God, since the vocation to it was placed there by HIm, so is very natural, and I have to wonder if the constant second-guessing and suppression of that legitimate and holy desire is only contributing to the frustration and desperation that you say kills a relationship, much like refusing to feed someone whose stomach is growling from hunger only makes the stomach growl louder.

Fifth, although marriage does not solve every problem, it does solve some, and does contain benefits:

usccb.org/laity/marriage/menwomeneng.shtml

Marietta, I do not know the extent to which you and your ex tried to work things out or if all avenues were exhausted, nor is it any of my business, but I will say that I am truly sorry that your marriage did not work out. But that does not automatically mean that any marriage that any of us enter will be doomed either.

 

[marietta]

agapewolf::

Please substitute “he” for “she”, “his” for “her(s)”, etc. I stand by my observations and owe no apology. The questions I posed were not rhetorical and I feel are deserving of consideration and response, not just pat defense. A question is not an outlandish claim: it is an invitation to discussion. If one cannot or will not discuss one’s burning philosophies and desires, I am suspicious as to how much thought has gone into them.

I’m sorry if I wrongly “presumed” your gender. The word “wolf” is reserved for males only in today’s lexicon; perhaps you can look it up to see what the female wolf is called. I work in veterinary medicine - maybe this is what lead me to misinterpret your viewpoint.

Yes, I’ve known about HALT for 25 years. What I learned is this: if you get hungry, eat; if you get angry, process by writing it out and/or sharing it in confidence with a person of the same sex, and always focus on the part that you played in the incident; if you get lonely, make the effort to turn your attention to another human being you can help; if you get tired, do yourself a favor and lie down - maybe even sleep. I have never heard anyone bootstrap psychobabble to this very simple premise. Not one person has ever interjected any notion into HALT about psychosexual energy in my experience. That is a contemporary interpretation of an old discipline method. If it works for you, fine. I don’t need the undertones to make it work for me.

Norseman82:

Please tell me where I faulted anyone for wanting to marry. My suggestions are that we should excise the fairy tale from the process and realize that this union involves two complete individuals, not one fully formed individual and one “under construction” individual whose personal voids are to be duly filled by the partner. I find the whole mystique which surrounds the courtship, the wedding, the honeymoon - the idea that “He (or she) completes me!” infuriating. If one is entering marriage feeling incomplete, then, in my opinion, the marriage will not survive. If a man marries a woman to have his own laundress, secretary, chef and sex machine - putting his needs before hers - it just won’t go. If a woman feels empty without someone to talk to, talk to, talk to - putting her needs before his - that won’t go, either. I am 56 years old and have yet to meet a man who digs chit chat; most won’t even tolerate pillowtalk for very long before they want to get up and go cut the grass or watch the races on t.v.

My private line to God tells me that *each one of us *must acquiese to God’s will. The degree to which we experience frustration, fear, anger or any other emotion is directly proportional to the degree to which we resist His will for us.

Agapewolf says, " . . .my psycho-sexual energy (and this is not about sexual needs, but human relational needs) gets screwed up when I go a day without talking with someone." Someone.
Then later in her post she says, "I already talked about my growth happens when I have consistent relationships. **The kind that can not possibly happen by a friend who has their own vocation and priorities. I bolded this passage to make my point. What is a husband? Just a sounding board? “Someone to talk to” and “My husband” are two entirely different animals. One is a parts car; one is a $85,000.00 '61 Corvette.

Marriage is fine if you can make it work. But if one person in the marriage has to put life on hold to patch up the other, there’s going to be a problem. I’m not talking about the unforseeable, like an illness which requires great patience and sacrifice on the part of the well partner. I’m talking about characteristics in one person which could be improved upon before entering into an already demanding relationship. To say, “Well, that’s just the way I am - can’t do anything about it!” is lame. We shouldn’t ask our partners to do our legwork for us.

marietta