Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[morning_star777]

and mr.planten lessthan 3 months before i became christian mentally.so if i comment wrong about christianity then i am sorry.cuz in my previos reply i told u that i know few about christianity.just jesus’ miracle converted me.i am reading bible.and also islamic scriptures again.i read quran&hadith before 6years so can’t give many reference.i have to answer you(muslims) many things about islam in future i guess.so i am reading again quran&hadiths.

 

[planten]

actualy brother planten i don’t know many things about christianity so i don’t answer those question.but i wanted to tell that you(muslims)deny jesus as god and think that he is just a prophet.if christians think that jesus is both prophet and god its ok.but i read in bible that jesus is son of god.and read catholic website that jesus was 100%god&100% man.(as a man maybe a prophet also i am not sure.)i read that jesus is true god from true god

** Thank you m_s777, That is not my business. I was saying that jesus is a prophet. I did not say anything else. That is not blaming or insulting. I do not say anything about God etc. If Jesus is a prophet then I can say that he is a prophet. That is as much as I will do. There is no abuse in that.
You may well believe that he was a God and a son of a God and all that 100% all at the same time. That is your business, not mine. So there is no insult if I say that Jesus was a prophet of God. And he prayed to his God.

If you disagree with that then I will not say that again. Please find out.**

 

[planten]

From the Catechism:

Official stance of the Church: Muslims worship the same God that we do.

Peace,
Dante

So it appears that most of the christian friends here do not know about their religion. Or they are not christians. Thanks for the good news.

 

[morning_star777]

welcome mr.planten.but if u want to discuss about islam like past i can reply you.hope you can understand my situation.so it is better that i should answer you what i know.so if you want then we can talk again about islam.and i also didn’t insult you or any muslims.i am just saying what my family and imam’s taught me about islam with the reference of quran&sahih hadith.thanks

 

[morning_star777]

So it appears that most of the christian friends here do not know about their religion. Or they are not christians. Thanks for the good news.

who is true christian it will decide lord jesus.i think no man can decide it.neither muslim nor christians.cuz men do not have right to decide it.and here is maximum muslim fellows edit quran in their own way.

 

[morning_star777]

From the Catechism:

Official stance of the Church: Muslims worship the same God that we do.

Peace,
Dante

if it is true then why christian worship jesus?muslims never worship him.so pls make it clear.how is it possible that muslims and christians worship same god?shouldn’t we worship jesus?muslims don’t worship jesus.so if muslims and christians worship same god then why we worship jesus,why?

 

[Lapell]

There are so many adherants to Catholicism that you are inevitably going to get folk representing just about every ideology.

In my experience lapsed Catholics are about as bad as people can get. I worked for a number of years in the Correctional Services and my experiences were that as a general rule of thumb: most practicing Catholics are kind, generous, empathic towards others and demonstrate great love and tolerance towards their fellow man and respect for all creation.

Sadly however, some of the worst people I have met have been lapsed Catholics. I have no idea why that is. It seems that when some people give up the faith they not only relinquish their allegiance to Christ but actually join forces with the opposite side.

It is also a fact that some people are corrupted by power over others and become greater abusers relative to the amount of power they have. In Nazi Germany those in authority wielded a lot of power and this inevitably led to grave abusers and crimes against humanity.

I believe anyone of any nationality and any religious belief, given absolute power and no moral controls, would unwittinly abuse it. Someone who lacks ability to be empathic is more likely to do so.

O.K., I’ll accept this explanation, lilyflower. And I don’t have a problem believing you on this. Thank you for what you shared here. God bless you!

 

[Lapell]

**I cannot see why it is an insult to the christians if I call Jesus as a prophet. The christians also believe that Jesus is a prophet. I say that he is a messenger of God. But I ask you about Jesus. Please tell if he is a prophet or not?

You seem to be new to the church as you may have left islam recently. I am on the forum for a long time and I see that all christians believe that Jesus was a prophet of God, unless there is a difference in the beliefs of the Protestants and Catholics in this respect.

If you are a Catholic then please tell exactly about Jesus. Is he a prophet or not? If he is not a prophet then I will not say that he is a prophet. Then you will also never say that Jesus was prophet. Welcome. Please reply.**

I think what morning_star777 meant was that Jesus to us is not JUST a prophet and a messenger of God. He is much more. It’s the “just” that he finds offending. As for myself, I don’t find it insulting because I know we don’t wear the same pair of lenses, you and me, when looking at Jesus…

 

[morning_star777]

yes mr.lapell you are right.i wanted to say that jesus is not just a prophet or man.and actually when we criticised islam then mr.planten claimed that we all are insulting, cause sometime we addressed muhamed as false prophet when they tried to prove jesus just as a man,cause muhammad claimed that jesus was just a man.so when planten said that we r insulting muslim,then i replied that they are also insulting us claiming jesus just as a man.thanks

 

[R_not]

Glad to see that R_not is a she… one can’t tell just from the words, it seems.
Some would argue that once upon a time, because of atrocities committed by Catholics who thought they were doing the will of God, Catholicism couldn’t be a religion of peace… and some would take verses from the Bible to justify them! What would you say to people who say such things ? (I heard this first from quarters quite others from the Muslims’!)

And here is the difference between the atrocities committed by Catholics, and anyone of any other religion - they are not following the teachings of the one who founded the religion. Christ did not teach what mohammed taught, nor did Christ do what mohammed did.

mohammed raped, enslaved, tortured, stole, lied and murdered. Christ did not do those things nor did he tell his followers that they should kill non-Christians, as mohammed told his followers to do.

In Christianity, a martyr is someone who dies for their religion - and many a muslim has murdered many Christians for being Christian. In islam, a martyr is one who dies for their ‘religion’ if they die killing kafir.

And here is another big difference besides the basic teachings of each - our laws hunt down murderers, thieves, rapists, etc; give them a trial and then mete out punishment. islam’s sharia law does not require that to be done if those atrocities are done to kafir.

To whine that you are being misunderstood is being disingenuous because I know exactly what the koran and hadiths direct muslims to do.

The more muslims in a nation, the more violence against the host population experiences by muslims - and the muslims will wail - if they feel threatened and if they feel like they are being scrutinized for their violent ways - as if they are the victims.

It is getting old this moral equivalency that muslims try to say between Christianity and islam. there is none. islam is a fascist regime and if one is not a muslim then the only option for non-muslims is death, conversion or subjugation (if they are ‘of the book’).

 

[R_not]

As for R_not being a male or a female is irrelevent - except in islam. In islam they are more concerned with what is, or is not, in the underwear.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

if it is true then why christian worship jesus?muslims never worship him.so pls make it clear.how is it possible that muslims and christians worship same god?shouldn’t we worship jesus?muslims don’t worship jesus.so if muslims and christians worship same god then why we worship jesus,why?

This is very similar to the way in which Jews understand God – they deny that Christ is the Son of God, but they acknowledge God the Father. So it is with Muslims.

In any case, the Church is the fullness of truth. That does not mean that some truth cannot be found in other places. Islam and Judaism teach the truth of a single, all-powerful, eternal God. They are lacking in that they do not acknowledge His Incarnation.

Peace,
Dante

 

[morning_star777]

very good logic mr.dante but a problem.hindus also believe 3 chief god.brahma,vishnu,shiva.they also worship many gods.but they proved with indian philosophy that they worship only true god named param brahmn.and though gautam buddha never claim that he is god himself but buddhist belive that he is the true god.maybe not all sectors but many sectors belive that.so of course here is also some truth.but their books didn’t teach violence like quran

 

[swariffin]

very good logic mr.dante but a problem.hindus also believe 3 chief god.brahma,vishnu,shiva.they also worship many gods.but they proved with indian philosophy that they worship only true god named param brahmn.and though gautam buddha never claim that he is god himself but buddhist belive that he is the true god.maybe not all sectors but many sectors belive that.so of course here is also some truth.but their books didn’t teach violence like quran

Dear Brother,

You are wrong, brother. Buddhist never claim that Sidharta Gautama is God. Buddhist do not touch much about the theology of creation nor human relation to God. However, they have an admirable standard of human interaction with other human, not just limited to another Buddhist. I must admit that we should also learn from them about this human inter-relationship.

Basically, I believe that we cannot love other human without loving God. So, by having a very high standard of loving other human, we can conclude that the Buddhist also love God. This high standard of loving, believe it or not, is not limited to other human being. They have almost the same standard which govern their relationship with other creations such as animals and even trees. Take a look of the Szu Chi foundation, founded in Taiwan. Their social as well as environment contribution is remarkable.

 

[morning_star777]

dear brother swariffin,if i am wrong about buddhist then i am sorry.but in my country bangladesh during ‘maghi purnima’(1 of the buddhist festival) i read an article.there a buddhist religious leader addressed guatam buddha as bhagwan(GOD).thats why i thought that they belive so.but i don’t know the ritual of buddhist.so i am sorry if my information was wrong.

 

[rinnie]

if it is true then why christian worship jesus?muslims never worship him.so pls make it clear.how is it possible that muslims and christians worship same god?shouldn’t we worship jesus?muslims don’t worship jesus.so if muslims and christians worship same god then why we worship jesus,why?

The way i understand it they believe in the God of Abraham, we also believe in the God of Abraham, so as far as that goes we have the same God. The only difference like the Jewish faith they dont believe that Jesus is God. Do you see what i mean, In the OT it promised God would come, they dont think he did yet. that is the difference. But in the beginning we all had the same God, the God of Abraham, Jesus Christ is the God of Abraham, Does that help you understand a little better. The way i understand it they are still waiting for their God. Just like the OT was the truth, Jesus didnt change anything in the OT he fullfilled it. Its just they for some reason dont believe that he is God. Remember the Jews were the chosen people, but they rejected Jesus and thats why he turned the gentiles. But you must also remember not all of the Jews turned on Jesus, look at Peter, and the disciples, remember the Jewish faith was the OT. Again not a claiming to know the Jewish faith, but i do believe they have half the book. See what i mean.

 

[morning_star777]

dear mr/mrs rinnie,actualy i wanted to say that muslims don’t pray to same god.cause their god teach violence&hate,though muslim claim that they worship holy father(but muslims don’t belive fatherhood of god).&about jew personaly i belive that jews are our friend&brother.they truely belive holy father.i always loved jew even when i was a muslim.i always support israel as the true homeland of jew.i am a christian&i love jews as my brother.

 

[morning_star777]

i want to add something in my previous reply.i love jews as my brother.and all true christians are my brother and sister.my own brother and sister.now if any one will address me as a bigot christian then i don’t care.and i worship jesus as my only god.jesus bless all ppl.

 

[rinnie]

i want to add something in my previous reply.i love jews as my brother.and all true christians are my brother and sister.my own brother and sister.now if any one will address me as a bigot christian then i don’t care.and i worship jesus as my only god.jesus bless all ppl.

Im not sure love, but you may want to check on that. THis is what John Paul ll says CCC 814 The Churchs relationship with the Muslims the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims, these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one merciful God, mankinds judge on the Last day. quote: now thats what the CCC says. then to goes on to say their religious behavior however men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them. And how they can be deceived by the evil one. So you are right many have gone astray, but the point is in the beginning we did have the same God.

 

[morning_star777]

well rinnie,if honorable pope john paul II said so then what can i say!pope is the vicar of jesus&our leader.so we must have to obey what he said.but maybe he said it just for formality.cause vatican want to good relation with muslim.or maybe he really think that muslims&christians pray to same god.ok i accepted this.cuz former pope said so.but its true that muslims r violent&islam teach violence.so i will always hate islam(not all muslims).