Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[East_and_West]

Honestly, how do you know they are damning? You don’t know. You want them to be because you are Christian. My point is, not to treat Muslims the way athiests criticise us for our beliefs.

Goodness gracious. I do know because…

1. You can prove the existance of God
2. You can give good historical evidence that Jesus really rose from the dead, substantiating his claim to be God.
3. There is good historical evidence that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and, therefore, it is the true religion.
4. This means that non-Christian religions are false and, thus, dangerous to one’s salvaion.
   Jeesh. Did we really have to go through that little exercise?

 

[ralphinal]

I refer you to the thread title: Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum.

So now that us Catholics have moved beyond the middle age attitudes of the past, we should now condemn Muslims for being slow; for doing what we used to do? Remember they came along 600 years after us. There may come a time when they will change too. I don’t know, you don’t know.

True, but I doubt it. Many of the Muslim governements are using the religion to enslave the people. That will not change easily. Is it fair to say that since they started 600 years later, they should not be expected to be on the same level as we are? No. The world is in 2008, not 1408. They have tvs, cars, and guns. You cannot have it both ways. Either live in a yert and herd goats and let us have free access to the oil or get modern, baby.

Further, many people here are stereotyping a bunch of Muslims into one group, just as the atheists bunch Christians into one “weak-minded” and “brainwashing” group. Go figure.

I do agree with your points on this. They are not a unified group. Funny thing is, many Muslims tend to describe themselves as such.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

Why don’t we unite against secularism? Or is that a stupid idea? We all worship the one God after all. The CCC says so. Or is the CC wrong about that?

One seeks to overcome by the sword, the other by the pen. You can figure out which. I’ll take the pen over the sword. Just my non-Catholic observation and generalization of the topic.

Peace…

MW

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[MH84]

catholics have the power in many countries. you dont understand that politics is an inherent nature in islam. mohammad himself was a dictator.

**Pope Urban II promoting the First Crusade:

"Although, O sons of God, you have promised more firmly than ever to keep the peace among yourselves and to preserve the rights of the church, there remains still an important work for you to do. Freshly quickened by the divine correction, you must apply the strength of your righteousness to another matter which concerns you as well as God. For your brethren who live in the east are in urgent need of your help, and you must hasten to give them the aid which has often been promised them. For, as the most of you have heard, the Turks and Arabs have attacked them and have conquered the territory of Romania [the Greek empire] as far west as the shore of the Mediterranean and the Hellespont, which is called the Arm of St. George. They have occupied more and more of the lands of those Christians, and have overcome them in seven battles. They have killed and captured many, and have destroyed the churches and devastated the empire. If you permit them to continue thus for awhile with impurity, the faithful of God will be much more widely attacked by them. On this account I, or rather the Lord

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Honestly, how do you know they are damning? You don’t know. You want them to be because you are Christian. My point is, not to treat Muslims the way athiests criticise us for our beliefs.

They reject the divinity of Jesus Christ. That’s just for starters.

Peace…

MW

 

[MH84]

True, but I doubt it. Many of the Muslim governements are using the religion to enslave the people. That will not change easily. Is it fair to say that since they started 600 years later, they should not be expected to be on the same level as we are? No. The world is in 2008, not 1408. They have tvs, cars, and guns. You cannot have it both ways. Either live in a yert and herd goats and let us have free access to the oil or get modern, baby.

Boy, the number of atheists who think Catholics should “move out of the dark ages” are countless. Why should we say to Muslims “move with the times” WHEN WE ARE CRITICISED THE SAME WAY FROM ATHEISTS.

Also, if it took 2000 yrs for Christianity to become as we are, let’s give them two thousand years as well.

 

[MH84]

I do agree with your points on this. They are not a unified group. Funny thing is, many Muslims tend to describe themselves as such.

Yeah its funny how they claim Christianity is so divided. Maybe they are hypocrites too.

 

[inJESUS]

So now that us Catholics have moved beyond the middle age attitudes of the past, we should now condemn Muslims for being slow; for doing what we used to do? Remember they came along 600 years after us. There may come a time when they will change too. I don’t know, you don’t know.

 

[AgnosTheist]

mohammad himself was a dictator.

Pope Urban II promoting the First Crusade:

Mohammad was the rule, not the exception.

Urban was the exception, not the rule.

I said secularists are suppressing people from praying and acknowledging God in public. Christians are not forcing anyone to believe them.

please show me your source.

And you belittle both! Are you in a position to sort out which religion is better are you? Athiests do some of the worst belittling imaginable. Go web surfing.

we all belittle each other. but try belittling islam in saudi arabia and how long you get to keep your head.

 

[MH84]

please show me your source.

I didnt have a source. But I found this article discussing the banning of public prayer in school: forerunner.com/forerunner/X0098_Ban_on_school_prayer.html

 

[ralphinal]

Boy, the number of atheists who think Catholics should “move out of the dark ages” are countless. Why should we say to Muslims “move with the times” WHEN WE ARE CRITICISED THE SAME WAY FROM ATHEISTS.

Also, if it took 2000 yrs for Christianity to become as we are, let’s give them two thousand years as well.

Yes, but when we are told to get out of the dark ages, it corresponds to the acceptance of sin or the change of Dogma. Not gonna happen. When I want Muslims to get out of the dark ages, I want them to accept basic human rights for all, including freedom of religion. I want them to stop blowing up innocents. I want them not to stone a woman for wearing pants. I do not want a little girl who was raped to be beaten for being around men.

 

[Nickkname]

What dont they get?

The Catechism.

I swear, if more Catholics read the Catechism and the documents of the Church, the writings of the Church Fathers and the Holy Bible, there would be less confusion over the teachings of the Church and the Church’s relations with Jews, Muslims, and other non-Catholics.

The Catechism: vatican.va/archive/ccc/index.htm

Writings of the Church Fathers: newadvent.org/fathers/

The Bible: vatican.va/archive/bible/index.htm

Vatican Council II documents: vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/index.htm

And more documents of the Church, though unrelated to this thread:

Directory on Popular Piety and the Liturgy: vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20020513_vers-direttorio_en.html

The Holy Rosary: vatican.va/special/rosary/index_rosary.htm

The Year of the Eucharist: vatican.va/holy_father/special_features/eucharist/documents/index_title_en.html

And you can find more Church documents at the official website of the Holy See - www.vatican.va

 

[swariffin]

theologicall speaking, murder is wrong because it prematurely ends a person’s life. now most of us have unconfessed/unrepented sins…being killed prematurely denies us the opportunity to change. and theologically speaking, a person who dies in sin have a much a greater chance landing in hell.

Dear Agnos,

Just a curious question. Do you really believe in hell?

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Catholics and the Church are bombarded with insults by the wider society, and yet many of us are more interested in criticising Islam and its followers. Many of you are saying how illogical and unbelievable Islam is, yet have nothing to say in answer to the same charges being pressed against you by atheists.

I see many Catholics debating the absurdity of atheism in the philosophy and apologetics section. There’s always several atheism threads going there. Plus, Muslims come to this forum telling Christians that Jesus is not Divine, He didn’t die on the cross, etc. ad infinitum and use the Koran and the Bible to do so. At least atheists use their misguided philosophy against us instead of our own Bible to tell us how wrong we are.

The thing is, many of you seem to be claiming to be devout Catholics. Yeah right. I hope you guys don’t expect those oh so sarcastic atheists that post here to start believing in Catholicism after reading the trash that gets posted here.

A little judgmental about fellow Catholics, aren’t you? Atheists aren’t stupid enough to let emotionalism and trash talk deter them from converting. They use their minds, remember?

Why don’t we unite against secularism? Or is that a stupid idea? We all worship the one God after all. The CCC says so. Or is the CC wrong about that?

We should unite against immoral living and teaching. We Christians are the ones who have failed society by allowing ourselves and our children to become secularized instead of converting our neighbors.

We worship the same absolute God, but we have very different ideas of who and what that God is. God is who he is, regardless of what we think. But, our paths and beliefs about Him are so different that they are incompatible and the communion we can have is negligible.

I want nothing to do with Islam.

Peace…

MW

 

[AgnosTheist]

Dear Agnos,

Just a curious question. Do you really believe in hell?

No I dont. I was just trying to argue from a christian point of view.

 

[swariffin]

Dear Agnos,

I am glad that there is still some Christianity you remember although you claim that you are no longer believe in it. I mean no offense anyway. Who knows that someday that the knowledge about Christianity left within you begin to make sense. You know, after being a cradle catholics for long, being a JW for a year, living in a diverse family with Catholicism, Buddhism, Confucianism and even Moslems within, makes me wonder of which is what, and what is which, until something begin to make sense (at least to me).

 

[paarsurrey]

Honestly, how do you know they are damning? You don’t know. You want them to be because you are Christian. My point is, not to treat Muslims the way athiests criticise us for our beliefs.

Hi

I think MH84 point of view is reasonable. He is suggesting just a respectful attitude for the Muslims, Islam, Quran and Muhammad. After all we Muslims love Jesus and Mary and give them a lot of respect; a reciprocal respect is already due from Christians which is not forthcoming since long. This may culminate into a peaceful dialogue.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

Goodness gracious. I do know because…

1. You can prove the existance of God
2. You can give good historical evidence that Jesus really rose from the dead, substantiating his claim to be God.
3. There is good historical evidence that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church and, therefore, it is the true religion.
4. This means that non-Christian religions are false and, thus, dangerous to one’s salvaion.
   Jeesh. Did we really have to go through that little exercise?

Hi

My point-wise comments are as under
;

1. You can prove the existance of GodAllahYHWH, not Jesus as God or Son of God
2. “You can give good historical evidence that Jesus really rose from the dead, substantiating his claim to be God”. No, this cannot be proved by the CatholicsProtestants etc.
3. “There is good historical evidence that Jesus Christ established the Catholic Church”. No, this is never established. Catholic Church was established at Rome when Jesus was alive but gone on a journey towards India. And, therefore, it is not true.
4. “This means that non-Christian religions are false”. This only means that Paul was false and Jesus’ life account in Quran is correct. However,this is not dangerous to one’s salvaion; rather it promotes salvation.

But this in no way halts giving respect to one another on reciprocal and on equitable basis.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

I’ll take the pen over the sword. Peace…

MW

Hi

My choice is also pen.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

They reject the divinity of Jesus Christ. Peace…
MW

Hi

Jesus himself rejected divinity:

1. He told that he was Son of Mary and Son of Adam/Man.This is his rejection of being GodAllahYHWH.
   2.He did not die on Cross and was saved a cursed death on Cross. He secretly and peacefully alongwith Mary migrated to far-off lands after his wounds inflicted on cross were cured miraculously by GodAllahYHWH.

Thanks