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paarsurrey
Guest
Hi
With the advent of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 as a SuccessorCaliph to peaceful Muhammad; Islam stands revived and we are very peaceful people under his guidance.
Thanks
Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum
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With the advent of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 as a SuccessorCaliph to peaceful Muhammad; Islam stands revived and we are very peaceful people under his guidance.
Thanks
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiNo I dont. I was just trying to argue from a christian point of view.
Are you a Jew? Please
Thanks
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Mystic_Warrior
Guest
This is not the place to discuss this and I have neither the time nor patience with respect to these allegations that I’ve heard over and over.
Peace…
MW
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R_not
Guest
Secularists don’t want to either kill me, convert me, or subjugate me if I don’t become a secularist.
Anyway, when the secularists come on these websites and start their da’wa (prostelytizing) I bet that there will be swarms on them too.
And we don’t worship the same God - if you read the koran, hadiths, study their history both past and present and learn about mohammed you might find that their god calls for us to be dead, converted, or subjugated. I don’t recall Christ saying that or doing the deeds that mohammed did such as rape, enslavement, theft, lying, torture, and murder. Christ stopped a stoning and mohammed was ok with it and suggested it for some of women’s form of punishment - without a trial or anything - whenever a muslim male thinks that the woman deserves it.
There are no laws to stop muslims from doing anything they want to non-muslims, and they are told that jihad - islamicize the world - is their goal. To do that they can do anything they want to do.
Now, secularists can be just as nasty if you want to lump the commies in that group - and in many ways communism and islam are very similar. They are a ‘either you are with me or you are against me’ sort of philosophy. The difference being is that mohammed figured out that keeping some non-muslims alive was a good thing since he could basically have them do what the muslims don’t want to do - and they can do to them whatever they want to do without worrying about being a criminal.
Read the koran and hadiths and then write your note. pay attention to the current news even if you don’t want to read the past news - it is all pretty bad. jihadwatch.org, frontpagemag.com, faithfreedom.org, and other sites are pretty useful for what is happening worldwide since our regular media doesn’t like to ‘hurt the muslims feelings’ by reporting on their violence worldwide and in our lands.
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Cajetan
Guest
I don’t know about that. I wouldn’t put too much trust in secularists.
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Eden
Guest
I don’t understand why this is an either/or situation. Why can we not discuss the errors in both Islam and secularism? I’m afraid I miss the point of the OP.
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R_not
Guest
I don’t think you are correct about us. I think that you are not aware that we have taken muslims into our country without prejudice and allowed them to do whatever they want - and they return the favor by… 9/11 and so many ‘moderates’ danced and ulalated over that murderous scene because we had so many die. And what happened as a kickback - muslims feared reprisals - as they usually do and so started the deception as to what islam really is.
What did we hear time and again? ‘We do not believe in the killing of innocents nor do we believe in suicide bombers’ They never tell us dummies that they only consider muslims as innocent and that suicide is ok if they are trying to kill infidels. In fact, it is why they hold those killers up as martyrs.
We don’t ramsack their churches, kill their imams or leaders when they bash us by making a movie or cartoon bashing us - the riots are still going on in the muslim world over Fitna. Pakistan has had riots this week over the thing.
We don’t treat them as a people with no rights or freedoms while they do to us in their lands. We don’t go and start slaughtering them in our lands if we don’t convert to islam but they certainly do and there are Christian martyrs to this day because muslims are killing them. Look at Darfur - the Sudan - southeast Asia - Eastern Europe - Israel isn’t a Christian land but it is our fellow human beings and they are after them with a frenzy and lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis. I mean the list goes on.
We don’t hear of much of their violence because our news down plays their violence against us and use different names to describe them - ‘disaffected youth’, ‘Asians’, etc.
We are not threatening them with a nuclear bomb - because allah says. We are saying we will retaliate and maybe destroy their nuclear sites - but we have been talking our heads off trying to stop that scenario (even though the left don’t think that we are - we are)
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R_not
Guest
I notice another irony - a lot of threads have been pulled with islam, the koran or muslim that is in the subject line. I find that ironic because they come on these threads and are not upfront about their religion and its teachings. In fact when they hear unpleasant things about it they get offended. Why? Because I have not read one thing that hasn’t been correct about islam.
Anyway, maybe pay attention to what is being said and see if it can be backed up and then find out who gets offended. And why are they getting offended. One common theme in dealing with islam is that its adherents are hardly able to handle the truth about their own history of islam, the history of their prophet and what their own koran and hadiths say. Quite often CAIR has lobbed lawsuits against people if they talk the truth about islam. Or videos get censored because of threats to the web owners on either the youtube or liveleak websites. This is a jihad - to lob threats. Threats and fear is also a tactic that is used besides terror, or violence. there are other jihads but I won’t get into it here.
We only think that jihad is what they tell us it is - an ‘inner struggle’, but if you delve a little deeper that is the lowest of the jihads with the violent kind being the most holy for them.
“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)
“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)
“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad
“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)*
And you say we are the ones that have a problem?!
Anyway, maybe pay attention to what is being said and see if it can be backed up and then find out who gets offended. And why are they getting offended. One common theme in dealing with islam is that its adherents are hardly able to handle the truth about their own history of islam, the history of their prophet and what their own koran and hadiths say. Quite often CAIR has lobbed lawsuits against people if they talk the truth about islam. Or videos get censored because of threats to the web owners on either the youtube or liveleak websites. This is a jihad - to lob threats. Threats and fear is also a tactic that is used besides terror, or violence. there are other jihads but I won’t get into it here.
We only think that jihad is what they tell us it is - an ‘inner struggle’, but if you delve a little deeper that is the lowest of the jihads with the violent kind being the most holy for them.
- About jihad, ‘inner struggle’
*- JIHAD IS ALLAH’S COMMAND - Surah 9:29
- Those who reject Islam must be KILLED - Surah 4:89
- For the Unbelievers are open enemies to you - Surah 4:101
- FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the last day - Surah 9:29
- KILL them [non-Muslims] wherever you find and catch them - Surah 2:191
- If anyone desires a religion other the Islam, it will never be accepted of him - Surah 3:85
- Whoever changes his Islamic religion, KILL him - Surah 9:57*
Here are some things about jihad:
*“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)
“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)
“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)
“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad
“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)*
And you say we are the ones that have a problem?!
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R_not
Guest
Well, you are probably right if one thinks of them more as communists. Communists don’t have a good track record either. They just didn’t add that they are a religion as islam has added which really puts others of different minds into a tither.
Personally, I am with the thought that islam should be reclassified as a political movement. but I cannot even imagine the wailing and the gnashing of teeth at that suggestion coming to bear.
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Stephen0
Guest
There are thoughtful Muslims who freguent this site and search for dialogue, unfortunately their founder set the tone for the faithful followers that would shock the average unaware Christian and secularist. He is considered the example of the perfect man to be imitated. However if Muhammod were starting out today to press his teaching on an unsuspecting world, he would be a wanted and hunted man by Interpol for acts of murder, robbery, and rape to name his least offensive activities. Why do I say that these actions are the least offensive? It was his teachings that split the world between the spheres of Dar el Islam and Dar el Harb! Which means that Muhammad would NEVER accept peaceful coexsistance between the true believer and the infidel. Since we are decreed by the Prophet as unbelievers to be under the House of War, then we are to be killed, forced converted, or to become dhimmi, and only then can TRUE peace reign. As a result, we have century piled on top of century of agony and death that arose at the direction of this inspired leader. Please don’t get me wrong for we Christians have been guilty of barbarism in return, but never can it be glorified or justified by us before our God, whereas in Islam the reverse holds true.
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Aslieas
Guest
I wouldn’t love being Catholic in a Muslim country, because I would be in the minority and also because I would have difficulty practicing my faith. But I used to know (we moved away) several Muslims personally, and they are very good people. They are kind, God-fearing, upstanding citizens. They do good for people around them, even strangers. In fact, my Muslim friends are friendlier and more cooperative with the various people they meet and talk to than most Christians I know.
With stories of harrassment and even bombings of non-Muslims coming in from overseas, I can understand the fear and hatred a lot of Americans
:cough:: Christians) feel about Islam. But that persecution comes almost completely from a radical minority of Muslims.I have to ask: Is your problem with Islam personal, or is it stereotypical?
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Aslieas
Guest
Good post! Thanks!
We definitely need to unite and educate each other of our differences. Then, we can understand, and with understanding comes… Peace!
Let us unite God’s people.
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paarsurrey
Guest
Stephen0; 3654100:
Excues me I have numbered the points in your post fro a point-wise reply:-
Thanks
Hi
Excues me I have numbered the points in your post fro a point-wise reply:-
- Thanks for your polite observations.
- Muhammad would be wanted by the world for his peaceful message, largel misunderstood by the West. He would rather welcome any unbiased investigations from anyside. He never did anything as mentioned in the accusations; so he would least worry about it; what they would do except to clear him from all these accusations.
- Muhammad would happily co-exist with others as he lived happily in Mecca and Medina. The unbelievers and infidel would be happy in his company as they flocked around him with love while he was alive.
- Muhammad never converted anybody forcefully.One who does not believe in is by choice an unbeliever. This would be one’s own declaration. Do you think one would like to be called a Muslim? While one is not.
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Aslieas
Guest
That is so interesting! I don’t believe it, myself, obviously, because that is not what Christians believe, but it is really cool to learn what you believe about Jesus.
I’ve said it before: education leads to understanding which leads to peace.
Is there some way to learn everything Islam teaches? I have been told that the Qu’ran is not exactly common stock in bookstores.
Thank you so much for posting! We really needed a Muslim’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
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paarsurrey
Guest
HiThat is so interesting! I don’t believe it, myself, obviously, because that is not what Christians believe, but it is really cool to learn what you believe about Jesus.
I’ve said it before: education leads to understanding which leads to peace.
Is there some way to learn everything Islam teaches? I have been told that the Qu’ran is not exactly common stock in bookstores.
Thank you so much for posting! We really needed a Muslim’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
Thanks for your polite post. You are welcome.
Quran is available online:
www3.alislam.org/index.jsp
for other queries just click home of the site and use the search engine. There is a library and a store as well.
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GraceDK
Guest
How so?
Dont you know the words of the Bible: Those who believe in Jesus, to them He gave the right to be called the children of God.
The Church’s task is never to be comfortably tickling people’s ear. The truth must be told. Both ateism and idolatry leaves people in the darkness. The “Lets all be buddies” approach will only work if you dont care for the Truth… because then someone else will come and get your children away from that Truth.
Love the Muslim (and love and help her very much), but hate the lie that keeps her chained…
Granted, there are people, such as my self that are not very gifted when it comes to talking to Moslems… other people in the RCC MUST have the gift and mandate from God to tell muslim people about the True Gospel with firmness and love.
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R_not
Guest
But it is not a ‘brother’ religion. Anyone who even thinks that hasn’t got a clue as to what their koran and hadiths say. They haven’t got a clue as to its history or its prophet. All are disgusting. Mohammed raped, stole, lied, enslaved, tortured and killed - and that was AFTER he started up his new ‘religion’ called islam.
islam is based on a pagan religion that mohammed belonged to. He added the stories that he knew - and if you would read the koran (yes, it is very kludgy and not easy to read) you would find their stories are all screwed up. But, mohammed was not dumb. He told his followers that WE rewrite the Bible and WE are going to hades for doing that and muslims should NEVER rewrite the koran or else they will be condemned. (yes, they say they are rewriting it in Turkey - but that is only for us Westerners who think that this will mean something - they are doing what they ALWAYS do - telling us one thing while doing another and that is they will follow the original koran for fear of going to hades).
I can only say that I got tired of the hatred out of the koran and hadiths. Very little of it has anything that would encourage anyone to lift their souls to God and love their neighbor. The only niceties in the koran ONLY apply to other muslims - not to us infidels because we don’t believe in their stuff. And since we don’t believe - muslims can do whatever they want to us.
I am so surprised that very few have cracked open the koran and hadiths. After 9/11 I had to know why they hated us. I found out. I was in the military and know of the problems we have had with muslims (or became more aware of them) since the early 1980s - since they bombed our Marines and sailors in Beirut). So, I guess all the bombings in the 1990s also got me a little irritated - then 9/11 happened.
And when I hear our own Catholic ‘scholars’ saying the same, old thing that islam is equal to Judaism and Christianity - it just irks the crud out of me!
They mislead us and all the while our fellow Christians, Jews, and even Hindus and Buddhists, etc die at the hands of muslims following their koran while the so called ‘moderates’ do absolutely nothing to stop it. but, I found out why - they are supposed to support the jihad and to deceive us all the while appearing as nice, and benign and all nice and coy and virginal and ad nauseum! per mohammed. they riot over cartoons and movies while muslim children are taken to learn how to behead and blow themselves up. And even the adults who do that - NO ONE DOES ANYTHING TO STOP IT! And when they do mention that they should stop it THEY ONLY SAY THAT IT SHOULD BE STOPPED TO DOING IT TO OTHER MUSLIMS!
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R_not
Guest
Here is the difference - their base book - their koran - is based on that violence we are witnessing worldwide. And even if they use other tactics then end is the same - death to infidels, conversion of infidels to islam or subjugation of infidels.
I wrote this either on this thread or another one - mohammed was not dumb. he was not a Jew or a christian, but a pagan. And all of the different religions of his time got along relatively well together. Then he started his preaching and he wanted to convert the Jews and Christians of his time to his new religion so he threw in some of the Bible stories - but if you read the koran it is obvious he did’t know them very well and so screwed them up.
And this is why islam won’t change - mohammed said that WE were the ones who changed the Bible and that WE are going to be condemned for doing so and if muslims change the koran they will also be condemned to hades.
There currently is a rewriting of the koran going on in turkey, but that is only for our wishes that islam change. They will hand us that book, if it ever gets completed, and they will turn around and continue to follow their age old koran and hadiths and snicker behind our backs because we are so foolish and ignorant to think that this is the change we are hoping for.
All I got to say is the only way to know islam is to read what they read. Yes, the book and hadiths are long and kludgy. But, you will in the end know why your wish for change won’t happen. It has to happen within them and it has to come from people like the ayatollahs, the saudis and wahabbism, hamas, hezbollha, the muslim brotherhood, the MSA, etc.
When you read those things you will find out that the koran sanctions lying and that is a form of deceit and they are in an eternal war with us infidels until the world is islamicized. And to think that there is only one or two tactics such as terror and fear is also another dream - there is political islam, hudna (muslim’s peace treaties can last no longer than 10 years and muslims must be rearming and regrouping and can break the truce anytime they want), etc. Basically anything goes to accomplish their end result.
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Eden
Guest
For a balanced look at Islam, I would also suggest the videos of former Muslims, as some Muslims use deceit about the Quran and Hadiths to recruit non-Arab-speaking Westerners. For instance, there is a Muslim woman who created a video arguing that the Quran says the earth is shaped like an ostrich egg to illustrate the scientific accuracy of the Quran and posted it on YouTube. In fact, the Quran says the earth is flat. But since most Westerners do not know Arabic and can’t verify this independently, it’s useful to have a Christian Arab-speaker give counterpoints to Muslim claims. Here are some places to start:That is so interesting! I don’t believe it, myself, obviously, because that is not what Christians believe, but it is really cool to learn what you believe about Jesus.
I’ve said it before: education leads to understanding which leads to peace.
Is there some way to learn everything Islam teaches? I have been told that the Qu’ran is not exactly common stock in bookstores.
Thank you so much for posting! We really needed a Muslim’s (name removed by moderator)ut.
youtube.com/ahmadsquran3
youtube.com/investigateislam
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R_not
Guest
I hear this a lot and it is the same when muslims migrate to a country, before their numbers are sufficient to start their violence. And as we are seeing now in our country the early stages of other tactics of jihad other than the fear, intimidation and terror - although those are also being used because many websites are taken to court by CAIR. Sites like youtube and liveleak have had to censor some things when the truth about islam comes out becuase of the intimidation and threats from muslims.I wouldn’t love being Catholic in a Muslim country, because I would be in the minority and also because I would have difficulty practicing my faith. But I used to know (we moved away) several Muslims personally, and they are very good people. They are kind, God-fearing, upstanding citizens. They do good for people around them, even strangers. In fact, my Muslim friends are friendlier and more cooperative with the various people they meet and talk to than most Christians I know.
With stories of harrassment and even bombings of non-Muslims coming in from overseas, I can understand the fear and hatred a lot of Americans
I have to ask: Is your problem with Islam personal, or is it stereotypical?
And the demands have started - segregation due to this reason or that which actually might sound benign but if one looks at islam’s sharia law a little further - it is because us infidels are dirty. So are women - muslim or infidel. So, segregation is starting to have a comeback and I wonder where the ACLU is?!
Every single place muslims migrate to start off as peaceful. Their numbers grow. Demands start. Violence starts and most don’t attribute it to too much as all people have violent ones, unless they start reading the notes left or listen to their words - and they are in a jihad. Basically, where the coy virginal muslimette goes the jihadists are following behind. And the so called ‘moderates’? Well, they are told that they are to support the jihadists, hence muslim charities - many of which our own government shuts down as soon as they open up because they are tied to the violent jihadists killing in other parts of this globe.
article on % of muslim and % of violence:
frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4DE15EF9-A76C-4DD4-81E2-75683AEED74D
Stages of Islamization:
islam-watch.org/Others/Stages-of-Islamization.htm
And discussed on another thread is the fact that deception is allowed in islam when muslims are in dar al harb (the realm of war - lands not under sharia law)
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