Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[R_not]

Hi

With the advent of the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 as a SuccessorCaliph to peaceful Muhammad; Islam stands revived and we are very peaceful people under his guidance.

Thanks

The violence, or violent jihad, in islam has its ebbs and flows throughout history. Right now we are in a flow. It started in the 1920s and was helped along by Hitler and the Nazis.

You will find the tie between these beginnings and the muslim brotherhood which has ties not only to the wahabbism that the saudis are pushing on us, but also the MSA (muslim Student Association) in our Universities.

Islam and Nazi ties:
tellthechildrenthetruth.com/amin_en.html

Basically when we wiped out the Nazis in Europe is was like swatting dust - particles of it went to Africa and the Middle East and there it flourished. And it also went to many islands in Southeast Asia and the more recent countries to have nothing but muslim on non-muslim slaughter are Eastern Europe and Lebanon. And now it is growing in Western Europe, Canada, the USA, and there are also pockets of it in S. America. The Australians also are dealing with it, but they seem to not take their crud - most of the time.

A new jihad was decreed against India also late last year. Throughout the 1400 years India has had several jihads and the first ones brought a friendly, open society to its knees with jihad. They destroyed many of their monuments and things. And to beat all - any scientific, or other achievement, was stolen from the Asian Indians and the muslims claimed it was from them.

This is a long read, but worth it to print off and read later. I read some of the reader’s comments too and found a good deal of information also.:
Fjordman: islam, the Greeks and the Scientific Revolution,

Part 1
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018190.php

Part2
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018278.php

Part3
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/018368.php

The thing with a period of so called peace, the subjugated people live under sharia law, pay higher taxes, do the labor the muslims don’t want to do, are treated next to slaves, they cannot just do what they want or worship as they will, fix their churches or build new ones. In fact, quite often their churches are destroyed by muslims. If a muslim does anything to them they can not do anything about it and basically ANYTHING goes because they are considered infidels.

Many times they end out converting to islam, and some leave. At some times throughout history they have been prohibited from leaving because the muslims need their taxes, labor and basically underclass.

 

[R_not]

For a balanced look at Islam, I would also suggest the videos of former Muslims, as some Muslims use deceit about the Quran and Hadiths to recruit non-Arab-speaking Westerners. For instance, there is a Muslim woman who created a video arguing that the Quran says the earth is shaped like an ostrich egg to illustrate the scientific accuracy of the Quran and posted it on YouTube. In fact, the Quran says the earth is flat. But since most Westerners do not know Arabic and can’t verify this independently, it’s useful to have a Christian Arab-speaker give counterpoints to Muslim claims. Here are some places to start:

youtube.com/ahmadsquran3

youtube.com/investigateislam

Wow, thanks - I saved them in case they get censored.

 

[Aslieas]

I want to be thankful for the responses I got from:

Paarsurrey

R_not

Eden

You all made polite and informative posts, and provided good outside sources for further research.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I feel better educated already.

 

[paarsurrey]

I hear this a lot and it is the same when muslims migrate to a country, before their numbers are sufficient to start their violence. And as we are seeing now in our country the early stages of other tactics of jihad other than the fear, intimidation and terror - although those are also being used because many websites are taken to court by CAIR. Sites like youtube and liveleak have had to censor some things when the truth about islam comes out becuase of the intimidation and threats from muslims.

And the demands have started - segregation due to this reason or that which actually might sound benign but if one looks at islam’s sharia law a little further - it is because us infidels are dirty. So are women - muslim or infidel. So, segregation is starting to have a comeback and I wonder where the ACLU is?!

Every single place muslims migrate to start off as peaceful. Their numbers grow. Demands start. Violence starts and most don’t attribute it to too much as all people have violent ones, unless they start reading the notes left or listen to their words - and they are in a jihad. Basically, where the coy virginal muslimette goes the jihadists are following behind. And the so called ‘moderates’? Well, they are told that they are to support the jihadists, hence muslim charities - many of which our own government shuts down as soon as they open up because they are tied to the violent jihadists killing in other parts of this globe.

article on % of muslim and % of violence:
frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=4DE15EF9-A76C-4DD4-81E2-75683AEED74D

Stages of Islamization:
islam-watch.org/Others/Stages-of-Islamization.htm

And discussed on another thread is the fact that deception is allowed in islam when muslims are in dar al harb (the realm of war - lands not under sharia law)

Hi

I am sorry for that state of affairs of Muslims or followers of MullahIslam, observed by you, which has nothing to do with the peaceful Quran/Muhammad/Islam. If you would kindly check for yourself in the peaceful Quran; you won’t find any sort of Darul-Harb mentioned in Quran. These are wrong concepts of the MullahSharea who are followers of MedievalAge mistaken sholars/concepts.

The state stands however remedied with the advent of the peaceful PromisedMessiah 1835-1908; who has reformed Islam as he has reformed other Revealed Religions. The Muslims and others should follow him; nobody else has come though all are waiting one.

Thanks

 

[dolphinlove]

Hi

I am sorry for that state of affairs of Muslims or followers of MullahIslam, observed by you, which has nothing to do with the peaceful Quran/Muhammad/Islam. If you would kindly check for yourself in the peaceful Quran; you won’t find any sort of Darul-Harb mentioned in Quran. These are wrong concepts of the MullahSharea who are followers of MedievalAge mistaken sholars/concepts.

The state stands however remedied with the advent of the peaceful PromisedMessiah 1835-1908; who has reformed Islam as he has reformed other Revealed Religions. The Muslims and others should follow him; nobody else has come though all are waiting one.

Thanks

Paars,

There is 2 outstanding questions from long ago that you have not answered yet regarding your faith…

1. Mohammed said he was the last prophet, how come you state there is another ‘promised messiah’ after him?
2. Many people have pointed out the violence that is in the quran and have asked you what you thought about it, you have not given reason why you consider these as peaceful?

Any response would be welcomed
Thanks
Dolphinlove

 

[paarsurrey]

The violence, or violent jihad, in islam has its ebbs and flows throughout history. Right now we are in a flow. It started in the 1920s and was helped along by Hitler and the Nazis.

You will find the tie between these beginnings and the muslim brotherhood which has ties not only to the wahabbism that the saudis are pushing on us, but also the MSA (muslim Student Association) in our Universities.

Hi

This concept of Jehad- War for Conversion, is quite alien to the peaceful Quran/Islam/Muhammad and is entirely an innovation of the MullahSharea. The PromisedMessiah 1835-1908 took exception to it, well in time, and from a Word of GodAllahYHWH he abolished it; in fact it was altogether wrong to start with.

If you like you may study from the PromisedMessiah in this connection:
alislam.org/library/books/jesus-in-india/intro.html

I just give here the first paragraph from the above book for my friends here:

I have written this book, so that, by adducing proofs from established facts, from conclusive historical evidence of proved value and from ancient documents of non-Muslims, I might remove the serious misconceptions which are current among Muslims and among most Christian sects regarding the earlier and the later life of Jesus (on whom be peace) - misconceptions, the dangerous implications of which have not only injured and destroyed the conception of Divine Unity, but the unwholesome and poisonous influence of which has for long been noticed in the morals of the Muslims of this country.

Spiritual maladies, i.e., want of good morals, evil thoughts, callousness, want of sympathy, are spreading among most Islamic sects, being the result of beliefs in unfounded stories and anecdotes of this kind. Human sympathy, pity and love of justice, humility and humble-mindedness - all good qualities - are disappearing day by day, as if they will soon bid a last farewell to this community. This callousness and this immorality make many a Muslim appear no better than the beasts of the jungle. A Jain or a Buddhist is afraid of and avoids killing even a mosquito or a flea, but, alas! there are many among us Muslims who, while they kill an innocent man or commit wanton murder, are not afraid of the powerful God, who rates human life higher than that of all the animals.

What is this callousness and cruelty and want of sympathy due to? It is due to this - that from their very childhood, stories and anecdotes and wrong views of the doctrine of Jihad are dinned into their ears and inculcated into their hearts, the result being that gradually they become morally dead and cease to feel the heinousness of their hateful actions; nay, rather, the man who murders another man unawares and thus brings ruin to the murdered man’s family thinks that he has done a meritorious deed; or rather, that he has made the most of an opportunity to win favour with his community. As no lectures or sermons are delivered in our country to stop such evils - and if there are any such lectures they have an element of hypocrisy in them - the common people think approvingly of such misdeeds. Accordingly, taking pity upon my own people, I have compiled several books in Urdu, Persian and Arabic, in which I have stated that the popular view of Jihad prevalent among Muslims, that is, the expectation of a bloody Imam, full of spite and hostility for other people, is a texture of false beliefs inculcated by shortsighted Ulema; otherwise, Islam does not allow the use of the sword for the Faith; except in the case of defensive wars, or in the case of wars waged to punish a tyrant or to uphold freedom. The need of a defensive war arises when the aggression of an adversary threatens one’s own life.

These are the three kinds of Jihad permitted by the Shariat, and, apart from these three kinds, there is no other kind of war which is permitted by Islam for the propagation of the Faith. I have, in short, spent a large sum of money on such books, and have published them in this country and in Arabia and Syria and Khurasan, etc. But, by the grace of God, I have now discovered powerful arguments which are meant to eradicate these unfounded beliefs from the hearts of the people. I have clear proofs, circumstantial evidence of a conclusive character, and historical evidence the light of whose truth holds out the promise that soon after their publication there will be brought about against such beliefs a wonderful change in the hearts of the Muslims.

And I hope - I am sure - that after these truths have been comprehended, there will flow out of the hearts of the righteous sons of Islam the sweet and beautiful springs of lowliness, humility and mercy, and that there will come about a spiritual change which will have a wholesome and a blessed influence on the country. I am also sure that Christian investigators and all other people who hanker after the truth and thirst for it, will benefit from my books. And the fact just now stated by me, that the real object of this book is to correct the wrong beliefs which have become part and parcel of the creeds of Muslims and Christians, requires a little explanation which I set out below

Thanks

 

[wina]

Where would you rather live in? Those countries? Or these muslim ones:

Saudi Arabia.

Indonesia.

Turkey.

Tunisia.

Iran.

Where would a Catholic have a better life?

Hi Agnos, I live in Indonesia and I’m catholic. I think the most important that the wrong is not because of the religion but the people who use religion just for their purposes. Sorry I haven’t read all statements, but I just want to say that I live okay in Indonesia as catholic although there’re some problems but it’s not because of the religion but it’s because the people who just use religion to devide all people

 

[paarsurrey]

dolphinlove; 3659111:

Paars,

There is 2 outstanding questions from long ago that you have not answered yet regarding your faith…

1. Mohammed said he was the last prophet, how come you state there is another ‘promised messiah’ after him?
2. Many people have pointed out the violence that is in the quran and have asked you what you thought about it, you have not given reason why you consider these as peaceful?

Any response would be welcomed
Thanks
Dolphinlove

Hi

I think I did explain it; but in short I would explain again. Muhammad is highest or the most outstanding among the ProphetsMessengesr of GodAllahYHWH in rank; that is there in the peaceful Quran but it is nowhere mentioned in Quran that Muhammad was the last prophet in period of time. Muhammad himself prophesised for the coming of the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, in so many words; hence it must be a wrong concept of the MullahIslam, except that a canonical PorphetMessenger cannot logically come.

The PromisedMessiah has to be peaceful; so the second also stands corrected.

If you think there is a place in peaceful Quran where violence has been mentioned in your opinion; then kindly select only **one such most violent verse **with its usual context of five preceding and five following verses, that could be discussed here.

I think that helps

Thanks

 

[Delta2]

If you think there is a place in peaceful Quran where violence has been mentioned in your opinion; then kindly select only **one such most violent verse **with its usual context of five preceding and five following verses, that could be discussed here.

I think that helps

Thanks

Sura 9:5

But if you want I must say all that infamous 9th sura

The Medina verses had a number of paragraphs negative towards the Jews and Christians, full of hate

If the qu’ran is the the verbatim word of God then you must understand it literally

Or do you change by yourself the Verbatim Word of God ?

If you do that then your CLAIM that it is the absolute word of God revealed to man…FAILS !!! PERIOD !!!

Bin Laden is a better muslim than you, He doesn’t change or abrogate verses

Qu’ran online :

quranexplorer.com/

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi

I think I did explain it; but in short I would explain again. Muhammad is highest or the most outstanding among the ProphetsMessengesr of GodAllahYHWH in rank; that is there in the peaceful Quran but it is nowhere mentioned in Quran that Muhammad was the last prophet in period of time. Muhammad himself prophesised for the coming of the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, in so many words; hence it must be a wrong concept of the MullahIslam, except that a canonical PorphetMessenger cannot logically come.

The PromisedMessiah has to be peaceful; so the second also stands corrected.

If you think there is a place in peaceful Quran where violence has been mentioned in your opinion; then kindly select only **one such most violent verse **with its usual context of five preceding and five following verses, that could be discussed here.

I think that helps

Thanks

Delta is right. Look at the WHOLE Sura 9 (Al-Tawba), but especially these words of endearment found below. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside after reading it.

From Quran Explorer

1. *Fight against such of those *who have been given the Scripture *as believe not in Allah *nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. (29) And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! (30) They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God.There is no god save Him. Be He glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)! (31) Fain would they put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah disdaineth (aught) save that He shall perfect His light, however much the disbelievers are averse. (32) He it is Who hath sent His messenger with the guidance and the Religion of Truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religion, however much the idolaters may be averse. (33) O ye who believe! Lo! many of the (Jewish) rabbis and the (Christian) monks devour the wealth of mankind wantonly and debar (men) from the way of Allah. They who hoard up gold and silver and spend it not in the way of Allah, unto them give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom, (34) On the day when it will (all) be heated in the fire of hell, and their foreheads and their flanks and their backs will be branded therewith (and it will be said unto them): Here is that which ye hoarded for yourselves. Now taste of what ye used to hoard.

Surely you would agree that this is an incitement to resort to violence. I have no patience for a faith that tells me that this is okay. I also have no patience with those who seek to hide that truth of violence, those who defend that truth of violence and those that carry out this venemous doctrine of violence.

MW

 

[swariffin]

Hi Agnos, I live in Indonesia and I’m catholic. I think the most important that the wrong is not because of the religion but the people who use religion just for their purposes. Sorry I haven’t read all statements, but I just want to say that I live okay in Indonesia as catholic although there’re some problems but it’s not because of the religion but it’s because the people who just use religion to devide all people

Hi Wina, you say that you are living in Indonesia. Are you an Indonesian? Good to know another Indonesian in this forum.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

christianity’s mortal enemy is islam, not secularism. afterall, a non-practicing christian is secular. you wouldnt want to attack your own. you dont want a civil war.

You have it backwards.

CDL

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Hi

I think I did explain it; but in short I would explain again. Muhammad is highest or the most outstanding among the ProphetsMessengesr of GodAllahYHWH in rank; that is there in the peaceful Quran but it is nowhere mentioned in Quran that Muhammad was the last prophet in period of time. Muhammad himself prophesised for the coming of the PromisedMessiahImamMahdi, in so many words; hence it must be a wrong concept of the MullahIslam, except that a canonical PorphetMessenger cannot logically come.

The PromisedMessiah has to be peaceful; so the second also stands corrected.

If you think there is a place in peaceful Quran where violence has been mentioned in your opinion; then kindly select only **one such most violent verse **with its usual context of five preceding and five following verses, that could be discussed here.

I think that helps

Thanks

Quran: “Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)”

Footnotes: Comments from the foot notes of the translation of Sheikh (Minister) Abdullah Yusuf Ali; may Allah Almighty rest his soul and make Heaven his final destiny: “When a document is sealed, it is complete, and there can be no further addition. The Holy Prophet Muhammad closed the long line of Messengers. Allah’s teaching is and will always be continuous, but there has been and will be no Prophet after Muhammad. The later ages will want thinkers and reformers, not Prophets. This is not an arbitrary matter. It is a decree full of knowledge and wisdom, 'for Allah has full knowledge of all things.”

Me: So, it does seem that Muhammed was supposed to be the last prophet. He was the “seal of the prophets”. If something is sealed it is done, no?

From: Answering Islam

I’ve already answered about the “peaceful” Islam you proclaim in another post.

MW

 

[JonW]

I have not read most of this thread, and I apologize if I am being redundant. I for one welcome a certain kind of alliance with Muslims to combat secularism within the bounds of the law and always with an eye towards greater freedom from the dictatorship of relativism. I fear that, as a Catholic, mine and Islam’s ideals of freedom are at variance, but that shouldn’t eliminate the possibility of working together in any way.

God Bless

Jon Winterburn

 

[paarsurrey]

Quran: “Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (The Noble Quran, 33:40)”

Footnotes: *

Me*: So, it does seem that Muhammed was supposed to be the last prophet. He was the “seal of the prophets”. If something is sealed it is done, no?

I’ve already answered about the “peaceful” Islam you proclaim in another post.

MW

Hi

In Islam Quran is the source of guidance; no scholars or minister are intermediaries between GodAllahYHWH and man. He might have his own interpretation; but that is not binding on me. Quran mentions the word “Seal”. What does it signify? Kindly check up for the word “Seal” in any encyclopedia or dictionary of any language; you will get the meaning.

Thanks

 

[swariffin]

Hi

In Islam Quran is the source of guidance; no scholars or minister are intermediaries between GodAllahYHWH and man. He might have his own interpretation; but that is not binding on me. Quran mentions the word “Seal”. What does it signify? Kindly check up for the word “Seal” in any encyclopedia or dictionary of any language; you will get the meaning.

Thanks

No way, Paar. You should first get the original word of “SEAL” as it is written in the Arabic Quran. Then, you can search the meaning as such word is translated to another language. You cannot then based on your argument on the word “Seal” in English as translated into others. How do I know that the word “Seal” is the true meaning as written in Quran?

This is the same problem if you learn Christian theology based on the English or Urdu bible version only. You should have to go back to the original language. And to be the expert, you must master the original language at least on the passive level. Can I get my master in Islamic theology without learning Arabic? I don’t think so.

 

[AgnosTheist]

You have it backwards.

You may be correct there. Islam can be seen as a friend to Catholicism. Afterall Islam helped catholics destroy Constantinople and scatter your enemies the Orthodox. And because muslims turned the Hagia Sophia into a Mosque, there is no way that your Orthodox enemies would get it back. And yeah even your Pope kissed the Koran, which can be seen as acknowledging its holiness.

 

[ralphinal]

You may be correct there. Islam can be seen as a friend to Catholicism. Afterall Islam helped catholics destroy Constantinople and scatter your enemies the Orthodox. And because muslims turned the Hagia Sophia into a Mosque, there is no way that your Orthodox enemies would get it back.

You kill me. How about this view: only the Catholic nations (Ireland and the Vatican) and Muslim nations oppose Abortion in the UN.

 

[R_not]

Wow, thanks - I saved them in case they get censored.

I spent HOURS saving all of them! Some of them in the sequence I cannot find, but I got the majority.

Thanks again!

 

[AgnosTheist]

You kill me. How about this view: only the Catholic nations (Ireland and the Vatican) and Muslim nations oppose Abortion in the UN.

thats true. allies against abortion.

Here is another point to consider:

Most muslim women look like the Virgin Mary.