Anyone notice the irony here: Catholics criticising Muslims and Islam on this forum

[morning_star777]

Dear Brother,

Not that I disagree with you. Just be careful when you touch the issue of Trinity. Non Christian has different way of thinking about this, and is no wonder if they disagree.

sure my brother,i will always be very carefull.actually i think every non christian should understand that in my previous post i just prayed to my lord.so it was nothing but a pray..but brother thanks for ur concern to me

 

[Memaw]

i want to add something in my previous post.i wont discuss about islam soon that not meant that i am leaving the field.i will just wait&see.then i will say something with more prove.but it will depend upon the next situation.as an ex muslim how can i stop argue with them?after all i am in life threat.if the peacefull muslim will know that i became christian secretly then they will cut me in piece!(its the order of islam)is it peace?maybe YES

NO it is not peace. they must be a tormented people to carry all that in them. God bless you and I will keep you always in my prayers. And them too.

 

[R_not]

Love the sinner, hate the sin, no matter who is committing it.

I have never said I didn’t. I just think that we are being blind when we compare islam to any other religion. It is a political movement - in fact, it is even more than that - it is a complete set of laws to control the person.

And islam’s beginnings are not Jewish or Christian - all that was just a wish on mohammed’s part who was a pagan of his time. islam is not an ‘Abrahamic’ religion. Read the koran and hadiths - he messed up the stories.

 

[morning_star777]

God bless you and I will keep you always in my prayers.

thank you my friend

 

[Lapell]

forget about logical answers…there are none…the answer is : Muhammad said so.

Which explains, I think, why no matter what we say to explain the Christian position (and ours) about the dogma of the Holy Trinity and Jesus being a divine person assuming the human nature, they’ll keep saying our position is wrong. No maybes!
If they just said: “I (or “We Muslims”) don’t believe it”, I can accept that.
But to immediately tell us that we are wrong, or that we made that up, is forcing an opinion on us if they don’t prove it absolutely! They haven’t proved that yet, and I believe they just can’t, so they are forcing a conclusion. That’s not right.
If they just would say: “We don’t agree with you, we don’t believe it.” Then, it’s quite different. I would accept such an answer. Not the “you made that up” thing!

 

[Lapell]

Dear all,

Can we conclude from this thread that :

1. We agree to disagree about theology
2. No holybook can be interpreted literally
3. Religion without spirituality is non-sense
4. Human must love God, and show that love by unity in humanity
5. There shall be no judging against each other

What else? and what do you think?

Good question, really! Maybe that:
6. In the “afterlife” we’ll be far more certain who is God and how he is. (Right now, it’s like in a blur… or a fog!)

 

[Lapell]

It is very ironic.

“Muslims” and “Catholics” are so so so alike.

Despite this there seems to be a desire to be different.

Unity is the better path.

What makes you say that they are so so so alike, Steven John? In the teachings there are a good number of different things at least, and not just slightly!

 

[Lapell]

Muslims and Christians (Catholics included) are humans. Humans who seek true happiness in their lives, who believe in one God whom we believe to be the One true God. We differ on certain things right here: Muslims believe in One God as one and only person, while we Christians (not just we Catholics) believe in One God, but as three divine persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s a major difference!
Which explains another major difference: we believe that Jesus of Nazareth, also called the Christ, is a divine person who assumed a human nature (hence he is God), and the Muslims believe Jesus is not God. A prophet and a man of God, yes, but not God.
Major differences, not tiny ones. So just as with the Jews, Jesus is the stumbling block, really.

 

[rinnie]

Muslims and Christians (Catholics included) are humans. Humans who seek true happiness in their lives, who believe in one God whom we believe to be the One true God. We differ on certain things right here: Muslims believe in One God as one and only person, while we Christians (not just we Catholics) believe in One God, but as three divine persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s a major difference!
Which explains another major difference: we believe that Jesus of Nazareth, also called the Christ, is a divine person who assumed a human nature (hence he is God), and the Muslims believe Jesus is not God. A prophet and a man of God, yes, but not God.
Major differences, not tiny ones. So just as with the Jews, Jesus is the stumbling block, really.

excellent response lapell, clear and to the point, again excellent response!

 

[R_not]

It is very ironic.

“Muslims” and “Catholics” are so so so alike.

Despite this there seems to be a desire to be different.

Unity is the better path.

Well, this isn’t true.

Christ taught to ‘turn the other cheek’.
mohammed taught to kill, convert or subjugate the infidel.

Christ stopped a stoning.
mohammed sanctioned them.

We follow the 10 commandments.
No where in the koran or hadiths are there any orders to follow them - and if they are there and I missed them over all the other nasty stuff - then they do not apply to how muslims treat infidels (by the way - infidels means us Christians too.)

In fact, they have no law to even hold a muslim accountable for what they do to infidels. and the koran sanctions deception as a jihad tactic, and even to get a woman.

Christ forgave the ones who put him to the cross.
mohammed fought in over 35 of the 80+ battles that were fought for islam.

Christians are murdered for Christ and are called martyrs.
muslims murder and, if they die while doing it or trying to do it, they are called martyrs.

A Christian’s primary duty is to be Christlike.
A muslim’s primary duty is jihad - and I am not talking that peaceful kind since that is on the bottom of the stack of what jihad is most holy. The violent kind is the most holy of the jihads.

Our priest, Bishops, etc all preach Christ’s words.
Imams, ayatollahs, clerics (whatever sect calls their ‘religious’ leaders) are more like officers in a jihad compared to our officers in the military.

The ‘holy’ books are very different. The koran is more of a book of battle tactics against infidels.

I could go into the beginnings of islam and what allah is - but that is for other threads.

 

[R_not]

Major differences, not tiny ones. So just as with the Jews, Jesus is the stumbling block, really.

‘Stumbling block’ is certainly sure - it has caused more muslims to make martyrs out of Christians, not only in this century but for 1400 years.

I disagree also because unless a Christian disavows Christianity and becomes a muslim (or dies or is subjugated) they will continue their jihad against us. And this is because no matter what one believes in, they are labeled infidels - or kufir.

 

[Memaw]

Muslims and Christians (Catholics included) are humans. Humans who seek true happiness in their lives, who believe in one God whom we believe to be the One true God. We differ on certain things right here: Muslims believe in One God as one and only person, while we Christians (not just we Catholics) believe in One God, but as three divine persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s a major difference!
Which explains another major difference: we believe that Jesus of Nazareth, also called the Christ, is a divine person who assumed a human nature (hence he is God), and the Muslims believe Jesus is not God. A prophet and a man of God, yes, but not God.
Major differences, not tiny ones. So just as with the Jews, Jesus is the stumbling block, really.

Humans who seek ‘true’ happiness while hanging their wives for their veil falling off or if the man just accuses them of adultery without any defense, (her word is worthless,) sending their young sons, or anyone else for that matter, out to be suicide bombers, thats not even coming close to happiness. That isn’t even human.

 

[inJESUS]

Which explains, I think, why no matter what we say to explain the Christian position (and ours) about the dogma of the Holy Trinity and Jesus being a divine person assuming the human nature, they’ll keep saying our position is wrong. No maybes!
If they just said: “I (or “We Muslims”) don’t believe it”, I can accept that.
But to immediately tell us that we are wrong, or that we made that up, is forcing an opinion on us if they don’t prove it absolutely! They haven’t proved that yet, and I believe they just can’t, so they are forcing a conclusion. That’s not right.
If they just would say: “We don’t agree with you, we don’t believe it.” Then, it’s quite different. I would accept such an answer. Not the “you made that up” thing!

good answer and it explains exactly Islam’s position. Islam lives on degrading other books and beliefs simply because the Bible opposes it.

 

[Steven_John]

What makes you say that they are so so so alike, Steven John? In the teachings there are a good number of different things at least, and not just slightly!

I dont say they dont differ, but they have much in common, the absolute basic.

One God,
Above all,
Knows all,
Sees all,
Cant be divided,
Worship no one but God,
Seek protection from satan,
Give to those in need
etc

 

[Steven_John]

Muslims and Christians (Catholics included) are humans. Humans who seek true happiness in their lives, who believe in one God whom we believe to be the One true God. We differ on certain things right here: Muslims believe in One God as one and only person, while we Christians (not just we Catholics) believe in One God, but as three divine persons: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It’s a major difference!
Which explains another major difference: we believe that Jesus of Nazareth, also called the Christ, is a divine person who assumed a human nature (hence he is God), and the Muslims believe Jesus is not God. A prophet and a man of God, yes, but not God.
Major differences, not tiny ones. So just as with the Jews, Jesus is the stumbling block, really.

Im not sur this is true Jesus (PBWH) said the Father is greater than I? no one is good but the Father? both christians and muslims seek the guidance of God.
Its spiritual, cant be seen or weighed, guidance holy spirit same for me.

If Jesus (PBWH) is part of God then did he not order killing of those idol worshipers?
Thats where difference comes about, Muslims dont attribute killing to Jesus (PBWH).

 

[R_not]

I dont say they dont differ, but they have much in common, the absolute basic.

One God,
Above all,
Knows all,
Sees all,
Cant be divided,
Worship no one but God,
Seek protection from satan,
Give to those in need
etc

too bad we don’t see that point about ‘giving to those in need’ - the oil rich muslim nations don’t give anything except to jihadists to buy more bombs, or to train more 6-8 year olds as jihadists. Or unless they are under heavy scrutiny as they were when that tsunami hit a while back. Otherwise there certainly has been a lot of muslim charities shut down for their terror ties. I am sure that the ‘charity’ is still going on - ‘underneath the table’ now.

Most of the money from such nations as the oil rich saudi arabia also goes to such organizations tied to the muslim brotherhood (a terror organization) such as the MSA (muslim Student Association), CAIR, to build more mosques and madrassas that are pushing wahabbism, to our media and Universities by which to control them in many ways, etc.

so, if you can tell us what nations, or peoples, are getting any of that charity money that are not terrorist related? For example, our Christian charities not only go to help out Hindus, Christians, Jews (I give to a Jewish organization that helps out Israelis that are in need after hamas, hezbollah and the palestinians bomb them), etc. worldwide.

I do know that the cast off slaves in saudi arabia usually crowd around the mosques for handouts since they are banned from being eligible for any sort of job to sustain themselves.

 

[Steven_John]

too bad we don’t see that point about ‘giving to those in need’ - the oil rich muslim nations don’t give anything except to jihadists to buy more bombs, or to train more 6-8 year olds as jihadists. Or unless they are under heavy scrutiny as they were when that tsunami hit a while back. Otherwise there certainly has been a lot of muslim charities shut down for their terror ties. I am sure that the ‘charity’ is still going on - ‘underneath the table’ now.

Most of the money from such nations as the oil rich saudi arabia also goes to such organizations tied to the muslim brotherhood (a terror organization) such as the MSA (muslim Student Association), CAIR, to build more mosques and madrassas that are pushing wahabbism, to our media and Universities by which to control them in many ways, etc.

so, if you can tell us what nations, or peoples, are getting any of that charity money that are not terrorist related? For example, our Christian charities not only go to help out Hindus, Christians, Jews (I give to a Jewish organization that helps out Israelis that are in need after hamas, hezbollah and the palestinians bomb them), etc. worldwide.

I do know that the cast off slaves in saudi arabia usually crowd around the mosques for handouts since they are banned from being eligible for any sort of job to sustain themselves.

You stayed away from my post, you did not need to quote it.

May God bless you and keep you in His peace

 

[swariffin]

If Jesus (PBWH) is part of God then did he not order killing of those idol worshipers?
Thats where difference comes about, Muslims dont attribute killing to Jesus (PBWH).

Dear Steven,

Why do you think that God must order the killing of those idol worshipper? To whom that God gave the order?

You are correct, the Muslims did not contribute to the crucifiction of Jesus, because there wasn’t any Muslims at that time. But, especially after the Vatican council 2, we don’t put the blame to the Jewish nor the Romans either.

 

[Steven_John]

Dear Steven,

Why do you think that God must order the killing of those idol worshipper? To whom that God gave the order?

You are correct, the Muslims did not contribute to the crucifiction of Jesus, because there wasn’t any Muslims at that time. But, especially after the Vatican council 2, we don’t put the blame to the Jewish nor the Romans either.

Peace and blessings to you,
If one says Jesus (PBWH) is God then they say Jesus (PBWH) ordered the killing of the people that made and worshiped the shinny yellow calf of the egyption god.

Never made any connection between muslims and crucifiction.

Just said muslims dont attribute killing to Jesus (PBWH) they say he was of pure spirit / holy spirit.

for me Holy spirit not need do justice of taking life only be mercy.

I never blaming any one, sorry you think i am.

Peace to you and yours

 

[Steven_John]

Definition of Muslim, man who submit to 1 true God,
All monotheistic Muslim then.
So they there at crucification.
some Christians muslim hey.
and if Christain mean believe in Jesus (PBWH) muslims must be christians hey.
Before stating this in room of people read (a)

Tv definition of Mulsim man who drive car full of explosive. only recent times.

(a) Your definition of Muslim different to everyone as is mine. We hold definition of words from experience.

Blessings to you and yours