Ape to man?

[Eliza10]

This post is more of a “Frustration Vent” then anything, but my son came home from school yesterday CONVINCED that man started out as an ape.

My son is new to the Christian Faith having been raised in an Atheist home, so he is shakey at best when it comes to the “invisible”. He told me he would believe in God ONLY if he could see Him with his own eyes. But because we “share” so many DNA traits with primates, it makes logical sense to him that we evolved from them. mad: thank you schools for teaching human evolution).

Yes, I know that when a child is 13 they doubt many things and are searching for their place in the world,but this has upset me and left me frustrated and not just a little angry at the public school system.

Wow, Evolution is my very least favorite thing to talk about!

I am responding to this out of sympathy as a mother because this would be a nightmare to me too.

The people who don’t believe in evolution of people from apes (or ape-like creatures! whatever you want to call them!) and those who do can argue ad nauseum, both absolutely sure they are right. The debates goes nowhere. Abortion debates often seem to be the same way, although somehow abortion debates don’t bother me like evolution debates do.

There is no way I believe that people were once animals. God made animals, then He made people. He made people fresh, not gradually, and he started with two and named them made Adam and Eve. They alone are our most distant ancestors.

Some animals look like people. (Sometimes my cat looks just like a baby to me!). I don’t care what science says (and really, its just *some *of science). Science has been wrong before. I don’t care how well anyone can argue it. I don’t want to argue it; I never will believe that people once were animals.

Ask God to give you His peace and patience with this with your son. You need this because if you come down too hard with your opinion he may dig his heels in and the two of you will remain as endlessly polorized as an evolution thread on CA forum!

Show respect for your son’s opinion. Thats actually possible. He could tell you a Martian delivered your mail today, and you can actually respect his opinion - you just have a different one!

Respect is imperative to him as a teen who is yet green at his power of reasoning and thinking. One wouldn’t criticize a baby making his first steps. Also one must show regard for the fact that he is the male of our species. Respect goes a long way with those creatures.

To do this in the face of hot-button issues, you need the supernatural gift of God - His peace. Ask Him and He will give it to you. He says, “The peace I give is not the Peace the world gives. It is the peace that passes all understanding…” Gods gives the peace that makes no sense!

Since the place of peace is also the place you meet God, and God is first in your life, it is more important that you protect that than just about anything else.

So you can give up some of the angst to God, asking Him to fix it, and asking Him for His peace.

And then:

• pray for wisdom,
• ask the Holy Spirit to give you the words to say, and
• listen more than you talk.

I don’t think you can go wrong with that.

 

[StratusRose]

The people who don’t believe in evolution of people from apes (or ape-like creatures! whatever you want to call them!) and those who do can argue ad nauseum, both absolutely sure they are right. The debates goes nowhere. **Abortion debates often seem to be the same way, although somehow abortion debates don’t bother me like evolution debates do. **

Why do evolution debates bother you more than abortion debates? Evolution is a moot point, who really cares who or what we came from, but the slaughter of 4,000 innocent babies per day, everyday, is WAY more important!

 

[leonie]

web2.airmail.net/~carlsch/MaterDei/Homilies/homily031012.htm

1. The creation of all things wrought by God in the beginning of time. We must believe that a Divine Being is the ultimate cause for the universe. God “creates” in the strict sense which is to say, God brings forth from nothing and this act simultaneously begins time.

1. The special creation of man. We must believe that God uniquely created man with a rational soul. Whether directly from the slime of the earth or indirectly through a succession of other organic bodies is not a concern. We must believe that at one point God infused into some matter a rational soul making the first man.

1. The formation of the first woman from the first man. We must believe that God miraculously formed Eve from Adam. As we read in Genesis, “the Lord God cast a deep sleep upon Adam and when he was fast asleep, He took one of his ribs and filled up flesh for it.” (Gn 2:21)

1. The oneness of the human race. We must believe that every man born into this world shares the same first parents namely, Adam and Eve. The Church condemns polygenism, the false doctrine that mankind has several first parents. For if such were true not all mankind would be stained with original sin and, thereby, not all mankind would need redemption. (see Rm 5:12)

1. The original happiness of our first parents. Adam and Eve were perfectly happy in their pristine condition. They were created in a state of justice having intimate friendship of God; a state of integrity, they had perfect control over their passions; a state of immortality, they could not die. The privileges of our first parents makes it difficult to find a reason for their disobedience… a question the Church studies under the title: the mystery of iniquity.

1. The command given to man by God to prove his obedience. We must believe God tested Adam to prove his obedience. The meaning of “Thou shall not eat of the tree of knowledge” awaits a full explanation but it is enough to know Adam was tested by God for his obedience and his response would affect all mankind.

1. The transgression of the divine command through the devil’s persuasion under the guise of a serpent. We must believe that the devil exists and that Adam failed his test through demonic persuasion. In persuading Adam to sin, the devil takes possession of an organic life form recognizable as a serpent… perhaps even as a dragon as read in other scriptures.

1. The casting out of our first parents out of that first state of innocence. We must believe that by his sin, Adam and Eve, the purest human persons outside our Blessed Lady, lost God’s intimate friendship and became subject to concupiscence, suffering, and death

1. The promise of a future restorer. We must believe that God promised to send someone to restore the friendship He had with mankind in the beginning. This promise is recorded in Genesis 3:15 wherein God tells the serpent, “I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heal.” This woman may be taken as our Lady or the Church either of which has the upper hand, “she shall crush thy head;” however, the seed of this woman must expect some suffering, “thou shalt lie in wait for her heal.”

Every thing else is just minor details

 

[Eliza10]

Why do evolution debates bother you more than abortion debates? Evolution is a moot point, who really cares who or what we came from, but the slaughter of 4,000 innocent babies per day, everyday, is WAY more important!

That’s exactly why abortion debates don’t bother me so much. Evolution is so moot, and abortion matters so much. In the course of an abortion debate there is always hope that someone’s pro-life truth stated therein will plant a seed in someone’s heart. That bit of hope is what elevates an entire go-nowhere debate into a very good reason for existance.

 

[love4mary]

As a Catholic Christian, I do believe in evolution, but NOT that we started out as primates. God created ALL things, and those living things have evolved over time to adapt to their living environment.

My Frustration comes with the fact that his science teacher, ( who RARELY uses the text book) has spent so much time telling the students how ALIKE we are to apes and planting serious seeds of doubt into their minds of any other possibility, that it makes sense that we evolved from them.

Looks like I am on Major “Damage Control” with this one. My fear is that once this doubt takes place in my son’s mind about HOW we got here, he might start doubting other aspects of our faith and of God Himself.

As Jack Webb once said,“The Facts,ONLY the Facts”,leave the theories to higher grade levels when a child’s thought process is better formed for reasoning.

 

[apricot_yogurt]

I don’t give that much of a monkeys about evolution. The danger with the evolution argument could be that we are just animals and can therefore treat each other like animals.

 

[Mirdath]

As a Catholic Christian, I do believe in evolution, but NOT that we started out as primates. God created ALL things, and those living things have evolved over time to adapt to their living environment.

We’re still primates, actually. Just a different species (homo sapiens sapiens) than apes, orangutans, or chimps, and we happen to be sentient and ‘civilized’. Speciesation occurs through evolution, when enough changes have been made that the new creature is significantly different from the old. To say that humans evolved from the same primate ancestors as did apes does not contradict Catholic teaching.

My Frustration comes with the fact that his science teacher, ( who RARELY uses the text book) has spent so much time telling the students how ALIKE we are to apes and planting serious seeds of doubt into their minds of any other possibility, that it makes sense that we evolved from them.

Some of the best teachers I’ve had have barely touched the textbook.

Also, we are a lot like apes. We’re genetic cousins, after all. We didn’t evolve from modern apes, but there is commonality – and that indicates a common ancestor. Fossil records show a chain of ancient humanoids, with Australopithecus, Pithecanthropus, the Cro-Magnons, and others, gradually becoming less ‘ape-like’ and more like modern humans.

Looks like I am on Major “Damage Control” with this one. My fear is that once this doubt takes place in my son’s mind about HOW we got here, he might start doubting other aspects of our faith and of God Himself.

I won’t tell you how to raise your kid, but please, trust me – coming down on him over this is highly likely to do more ‘damage’ than just letting it go. Evolution isn’t contradictory to Catholicism, it won’t harm his spirituality. Since, as you say, he’s already very empirically-minded, he’s probably going to resent conflict over this non-issue, and that will harm his faith because you present it as a religious issue.

As Jack Webb once said,“The Facts,ONLY the Facts”,leave the theories to higher grade levels when a child’s thought process is better formed for reasoning.

As has been pointed out, theories are as close to absolute fact as you’re going to get. If you don’t teach tested and respected theories, you might as well drop science from the curriculum entirely, because the only ‘fact’ there’ll be is ‘we are here’. And then the philosophy department will come over and dispute even that

 

[Melchior]

You are correct. The fossil record supports the fact that men and apes have a common ancestor.

Peace

Tim

Or maybe it support that God created them uses most of the same materials? Hmmm.

 

[BLB_Oregon]

Just a slight correction. It is the best explanation if one eliminates God from the equation. I know that in science that is the way it is supposed to be but it does leave them having to fill a lot of holes in the theory based on “faith” that the answers will some day be found.

Why this presumption that God is eliminated by science? I have never understood this argument. It kind of implies that since we pray to God for rains to give us our crops in due time, that we must hold it as a real likelihood that modern meterology is entirely bogus. The one does not imply the other at all. Sure, the science may be bad, but that fact has nothing to do with religion. There is every reason to believe that the science is sound. Why harp on the rather small possibility that it is not?

From my point of view, God operates in two ways: one is in ways which are and have been consistent from the beginning of time, which God foresaw when time began. This is the natural order, which is open to the investigation of science.

The other way is in ways which do not appear consistent with the behavior of nature in the past. This is the realm of the supernatural and the miracle.

It is God’s perogative to act in either way, but it is my personal theory that God gave us a rational mind because it is the will of God that the physical world normally act in a consistent manner, and that this is the normal way in which the Will of God is achieved. We are made to intellectually order the consistency of God in our minds. It is in the nature God gave us. By this view, scientific investigation is itself an investigation into the Will of God.

So why would it be irreligious to say, as science always does, “in the absense of information of which we are not or cannot be aware, this is the best explanation of the known facts”?

And, by the way, I get so sick of this “ONLY” a theory stuff that I could lose my lunch. We are talking about hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of observations, made over more than 100 years by people who spent their lives looking for what natural forces might be behind the world as we see it today.

Nobody in science can disprove God. They can say that there is not a need to invoke supernatural explanations for the known facts. To be ignorant of what the known facts are, and yet to swoop in and insist that the known facts can have no natural explanation…well, it takes some cheek to do that and then claim that it is the scientists who are arrogant.

 

[Melchior]

I don’t give that much of a monkeys about evolution. The danger with the evolution argument could be that we are just animals and can therefore treat each other like animals.

It’s a fact. The greatest atrocities in human history all in the 20the century were were birthed by Darwinism. Enough reason for me to think it a satanic lie. Communism, The Holocaust, Margaret Sanger’ s Eugenics (she was the founder of planned parenthood) abortion on demand, etc.) all justified with speciation. Evolution needs to be judged by it’s fruit. It’s fruit is devaluing humanity, racism and genocide.

Mel

 

[Orogeny]

Or maybe it support that God created them uses most of the same materials? Hmmm.

Of course God created them. Evolution is the process He used as seen in the fossil record and genetics.

Peace

Tim

 

[Orogeny]

It’s a fact. The greatest atrocities in human history all in the 20the century were were birthed by Darwinism. Enough reason for me to think it a satanic lie. Communism, The Holocaust, Margaret Sanger’ s Eugenics (she was the founder of planned parenthood) abortion on demand, etc.) all justified with speciation. Evolution needs to be judged by it’s fruit. It’s fruit is devaluing humanity, racism and genocide.

Mel

Sorry, but that is just an ignorant statement. Evolution is a scientific theory. That is like blaming the theory of gravity for Florida demolishing Ohio State last night.

Peace

Tim

 

[estesbob]

Sorry, but that is just an ignorant statement. Evolution is a scientific theory. That is like blaming the theory of gravity for Florida demolishing Ohio State last night.

Peace

Tim

A scientific theory that was used by some very bad people to justify doing some very bad things.

 

[Em_in_FL]

Sorry, but that is just an ignorant statement. Evolution is a scientific theory. That is like blaming the theory of gravity for Florida demolishing Ohio State last night.

Peace

Tim

GO GRAVITY!.. err… I mean… GO GATORS!

(sorry for the off-topic… I had to!)

 

[Em_in_FL]

A scientific theory that was used by some very bad people to justify doing some very bad things.

True… there are extreme sinners in this world. But you can’t blame their actions on scientific evidence… that doesn’t make sense.

 

[estesbob]

True… there are extreme sinners in this world. But you can’t blame their actions on scientific evidence… that doesn’t make sense.

I wasnt.

 

[Jennifer_J]

It’s a fact. The greatest atrocities in human history all in the 20the century were were birthed by Darwinism. Enough reason for me to think it a satanic lie. Communism, The Holocaust, Margaret Sanger’ s Eugenics (she was the founder of planned parenthood) abortion on demand, etc.) all justified with speciation. Evolution needs to be judged by it’s fruit. It’s fruit is devaluing humanity, racism and genocide.

Mel

Really, Darwinism caused all these people to do horrible things? Maybe they were just evil and used the nearest available excuse to do evil things?

With logic like that, we’ll be blaming the Church for all the religious problems in the world…

Jennifer

 

[Courtneyjo]

Ann Coulter’s book Godless is an absolute must read for those interested in the evolution debate. Chapters 7-11 will open your eyes. She reveals the agenda of Darwin’s followers, and how the Theory of Evolution is taught as fact in schools, even though all evidence contradicts it. She points out that it is actually against the law to teach Intelligent Design. She draws a line from Darwinism to Margaret Sanger to Hitler to Peter Singer.

The chapters are a must-read. The book has substantial end-notes. Many find Coulter’s style irritating, but these chapters in the book are amazing.

 

[Orogeny]

Ann Coulter’s book Godless is an absolute must read for those interested in the evolution debate. Chapters 7-11 will open your eyes. She reveals the agenda of Darwin’s followers, and how the Theory of Evolution is taught as fact in schools, even though all evidence contradicts it. She points out that it is actually against the law to teach Intelligent Design. She draws a line from Darwinism to Margaret Sanger to Hitler to Peter Singer.

The chapters are a must-read. The book has substantial end-notes. Many find Coulter’s style irritating, but these chapters in the book are amazing.

If you want a mis-informed non-scientific take on evolution, read that book. If you want a book that deals with the science honestly and is written by a Catholic biologist, get Ken Miller’s “Finding Darwin’s God”. If it makes you feel any better, Miller has been slammed by Richard Dawkins because of his faith.

Peace

Tim

 

[Melchior]

Of course God created them. Evolution is the process He used as seen in the fossil record and genetics.

Peace

Tim

Actually it is not seen at all in the fossil record. A lie repeated often enough, no matter how absurd, and all that…) I don’t mean you, you have have just bought into it). There are HUGE gaps in the fossil record and more questions than answers with the existing fossil record itself. It is arrogant and dissingenuous of those in the field to pretend the record tells us more than it does.

Mel