Apostasy in the Reorganized Mormons and LDS Mormons

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Kristine1957

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:confused: Why did the Mormon Church (led by Brigham Young ) break away from the Reorganized Mormon Church (later led by Joseph Smith III) since they both claim to have the “correct teachings” of Joseph Smith?

Sounds like both churches were in a state of Apostasy?🤷
 
Teh best I can figure out is that the RLDS (now called the “Community of Christ”) didn’t want to leave Kansas City to go to Utah.

And who could blame them? KC has much better barbeque;)
 
Here is a picture of their temple in Independence MO:

http://www.cofchrist.org.uk/leicester/images/temple.jpg

Why do I suddenly crave a frozen dairy treat??

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

At least I will give them credit for having a cross on thier temple, which is more than I can say for their Brigham Young schismatic brothers.
 
I have some good friend who are RLDS. When Joseph Smith was killed the church went into a state of disarray. Many wanted to assume the Presidency…Brigham was leader of the counsil of 12 and claimed the apostles had control of the church…however Joseph Smith had the right as the Prophet to designate his own replacement, even Brigham recongnized he had designated his own son, but Joseph III was only 12 when his father died.

Emma and her son didn’t want to leave and head west…there was rumor of some interesting new doctrines being circulated among the twelve and some of the high priesthood…most of the “rank and file” members rejected the “Pluality of Gods”, “Celestial Marriage”, “Blood Atonement”.

The group which went west reflected the church as it had developed in Nauvoo…the church that stayed behind reflected the chuch as it had been reflected in Kirtland…other leaders like Sidney Rigdon and James Strange had legitimate claim…Sidney wanted to be JosephIII “regent”, Emma felt that James Strang may have had legitimate claim, she also wanted her son to take over for her husband.

When JosephIII came of age he wanted nothing to do with his father’s church…but he finally relented and assumed leadership…some of the other groups that refused to follow Brigham are the Church of Jesus Christ in Pennsylvania, Church of Christ Temple Lot, and Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Michigan. The Utah group has the “distinctive” doctrines that pretty much took off after the “Saints” ended up in Utah.
 
Publisher said:
I have some good friend who are RLDS. When Joseph Smith was killed the church went into a state of disarray. Many wanted to assume the Presidency…Brigham was leader of the counsil of 12 and claimed the apostles had control of the church…however Joseph Smith had the right as the Prophet to designate his own replacement, even Brigham recongnized he had designated his own son, but Joseph III was only 12 when his father died.

Emma and her son didn’t want to leave and head west…there was rumor of some interesting new doctrines being circulated among the twelve and some of the high priesthood…most of the “rank and file” members rejected the “Pluality of Gods”, “Celestial Marriage”, “Blood Atonement”.

The group which went west reflected the church as it had developed in Nauvoo…the church that stayed behind reflected the chuch as it had been reflected in Kirtland…other leaders like Sidney Rigdon and James Strange had legitimate claim…Sidney wanted to be JosephIII “regent”, Emma felt that James Strang may have had legitimate claim, she also wanted her son to take over for her husband.

When JosephIII came of age he wanted nothing to do with his father’s church…but he finally relented and assumed leadership…some of the other groups that refused to follow Brigham are the Church of Jesus Christ in Pennsylvania, Church of Christ Temple Lot, and Chuch of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Michigan. The Utah group has the “distinctive” doctrines that pretty much took off after the “Saints” ended up in Utah.
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Wow I never knew JSIII was supposed to be in charge…the plot certainly thickens for me…
 
The RLDS church didn’t exist until 1853. In 1844, when Joseph Smith was killed, the church met in general conference and voted unanimously to follow the twelve apostles. At that point, the church voted to appoint new trustees in trust which maintained the legal corporate structure of the Church. A year and a half later, the Mormons were driven out of Illinois (and subsequently the United States). If someone didn’t want to be evicted, all they needed to do was renounce their ties to Mormonism under the direction of Brigham Young. Of those who elected not to leave, several rose up to claim they were Joseph Smith’s legitimate successors. Some followed James J. Strang who claimed he had been secretly appointed by Joseph Smith to succeed him. He took a group of people to Michigan. In 1852 a group of people left Strang’s organization and called themselves the “New Organization” and officially organized in 1853. After Strang was killed in 1856, many of his followers joined the New Organization and began to approach Joseph Smith III to lead them. In 1860 JS III joined the church as its president.

Most of this information can be found in the 1844-1846 editions of the Nauvoo newspaper “Times and Seasons” and the RLDS and LDS Histories.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
 
Alma147 said:
The RLDS church didn’t exist until 1853. In 1844, when Joseph Smith was killed, the church met in general conference and voted unanimously to follow the twelve apostles. At that point, the church voted to appoint new trustees in trust which maintained the legal corporate structure of the Church. A year and a half later, the Mormons were driven out of Illinois (and subsequently the United States). If someone didn’t want to be evicted, all they needed to do was renounce their ties to Mormonism under the direction of Brigham Young. Of those who elected not to leave, several rose up to claim they were Joseph Smith’s legitimate successors. Some followed James J. Strang who claimed he had been secretly appointed by Joseph Smith to succeed him. He took a group of people to Michigan. In 1852 a group of people left Strang’s organization and called themselves the “New Organization” and officially organized in 1853. After Strang was killed in 1856, many of his followers joined the New Organization and began to approach Joseph Smith III to lead them. In 1860 JS III joined the church as its president.

Most of this information can be found in the 1844-1846 editions of the Nauvoo newspaper “Times and Seasons” and the RLDS and LDS Histories.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
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🙂 Thank you for all your information! I was always told that the Mormon church in Salt Lake City was the one that Joseph Smith created and that the RLDS was a breakoff from them. I find it interesting though that Joseph Smiths first wife and thier son belonged to the other one (RLDS). Do you know what the differences (if any) are between the two?
 
Alma147 said:
The RLDS church didn’t exist until 1853. In 1844, when Joseph Smith was killed, the church met in general conference and voted unanimously to follow the twelve apostles. At that point, the church voted to appoint new trustees in trust which maintained the legal corporate structure of the Church. A year and a half later, the Mormons were driven out of Illinois (and subsequently the United States). If someone didn’t want to be evicted, all they needed to do was renounce their ties to Mormonism under the direction of Brigham Young. Of those who elected not to leave, several rose up to claim they were Joseph Smith’s legitimate successors. Some followed James J. Strang who claimed he had been secretly appointed by Joseph Smith to succeed him. He took a group of people to Michigan. In 1852 a group of people left Strang’s organization and called themselves the “New Organization” and officially organized in 1853. After Strang was killed in 1856, many of his followers joined the New Organization and began to approach Joseph Smith III to lead them. In 1860 JS III joined the church as its president.

Most of this information can be found in the 1844-1846 editions of the Nauvoo newspaper “Times and Seasons” and the RLDS and LDS Histories.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
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So JS III was never thought to be nor considered himself successor after JS JR died?
 
In my own study, much historical “myth” from both the RLDS and the LDS have developed.

The church was “disorganized” in 1844 when Joseph Jr was killed and “reorganized” under Joseph III in 1860. When the two court cases happened later…the case to see who was the rightful owners of the Kirtland Temple in Ohio, it fell to the RLDS church as the rightful successor to Joseph Jr’s church…when the Temple Lot case took place to see who would get the Temple Lot in Independence…it too went to the RLDS…a later court overturned the decision and awarded it to the Church of Christ Temple Lot…not because they were the rightful and lawful continuation of the church established by Joseph Smith Jr, but because the RLDS had waited so long to press their claim.

Brigham Young was never to be the next President of the church…it was Joseph III…but Brigham and most of the 12, not all of the 12 led a large majority of the church west to Salt Lake…many stayed behind…eventually Sidney Rigdon, Lyman Wright, William Smith, James Strange and a few others claims fell through…in 1860 many of the “Prairie Saints” rallied around Emma and Joseph III…Brigham did lead the majority west…and re-ordained and rebaptized those that went with him…the RLDS church accepted all on their original baptism and ordination…the “myths” of both organizations do conflict…there is no doubt about that one…the RLDS, Bickerton Organization, Church of Christ Temple Lot all rejected polygamy, Adam God doctrine, secret Temple rituals and baptism for the dead…all these doctrines took hold in Salt Lake…today we have the Mormon Church as the largest and most agressive of the churches that trace their founder as Joseph Smith Jr…
 
Publisher said:
In my own study, much historical “myth” from both the RLDS and the LDS have developed.

The church was “disorganized” in 1844 when Joseph Jr was killed and “reorganized” under Joseph III in 1860. When the two court cases happened later…the case to see who was the rightful owners of the Kirtland Temple in Ohio, it fell to the RLDS church as the rightful successor to Joseph Jr’s church…
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You’ve got some bad information, there Publisher. I don’t blame you though, because the RLDS Church falsely claimed the same thing for over 50 years.

Israel Smith (President of the RLDS Church) admitted in the RLDS Herald (their official publication) that the RLDS Church lost the suit against the LDS Church and was ordered to pay the costs thereof. Even though they claimed victory in the past, and other supporters continue to claim that the civil courts supported the RLDS contention of being the legitimate successor to the Church founded by Joseph Smith in 1830, the assertion is false and a matter of public record available at the Lake County Courthouse in Ohio and by reading the January 9, 1943 Saints’ Herald article where they come clean by including the actual words dismissing the suit:

"And thereupon the court finds as a matter of law that the plaintiff is not entitled to the judgment or relief prayed for in its petition. And thereupon it is ordered and adjudged that this action be dismissed at the costs of the plaintiff.”
.when the Temple Lot case took place to see who would get the Temple Lot in Independence…it too went to the RLDS…a later court overturned the decision and awarded it to the Church of Christ Temple Lot…not because they were the rightful and lawful continuation of the church established by Joseph Smith Jr, but because the RLDS had waited so long to press their claim.
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Not entirely true. The Federal Appeals Court determined that that the original judged erred in 20 cases of fact, overturned the judgment and ordered the case dismissed on the basis that the RLDS Church had no legal right to seek relief from the court.
Brigham Young was never to be the next President of the church…it was Joseph III…but Brigham and most of the 12, not all of the 12 led a large majority of the church west to Salt Lake…many stayed behind…eventually Sidney Rigdon, Lyman Wright, William Smith, James Strange and a few others claims fell through…in 1860 many of the “Prairie Saints” rallied around Emma and Joseph III…Brigham did lead the majority west…and re-ordained and rebaptized those that went with him…the RLDS church accepted all on their original baptism and ordination…the “myths” of both organizations do conflict…there is no doubt about that one…the RLDS, Bickerton Organization, Church of Christ Temple Lot all rejected polygamy, Adam God doctrine, secret Temple rituals and baptism for the dead…all these doctrines took hold in Salt Lake…today we have the Mormon Church as the largest and most agressive of the churches that trace their founder as Joseph Smith Jr…
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The above might be plausible except for a few facts of history and LDS doctrine. The Church structure established by Joseph Smith stipulated that the presiding quorums (1st presidency, 12 apostles and Quorum of 70) could only be overruled by the vote of the entire church in conference. From the time of Joseph Smith’s death, the church voted unanimously to sustain the actions of Brigham Young and the 12 Apostles. That makes any action of “Prairie Saints” or other ex-Mormons moot. Once the conference voted to support the appointment of Brigham Young as church president, it was an established fact.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
 
Kristine1957 said:
🙂 Thank you for all your information! I was always told that the Mormon church in Salt Lake City was the one that Joseph Smith created and that the RLDS was a breakoff from them. I find it interesting though that Joseph Smiths first wife and thier son belonged to the other one (RLDS). Do you know what the differences (if any) are between the two?
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It would probably be quicker to list the similarities. They both believe that Jesus Christ died for sinners and rose the third day. Both churches have a president with two counselors and 12 apostles who lead the church, but in the RLDS (now called Community of Christ) the position of church president is not for life while it is in the LDS church. All of Joseph Smith’s children stayed with their mother and didn’t join the Mormons who went west. Emma Smith (Joseph Smith’s first wife) had an invincible antipathy towards polygamy. Since Brigham Young supported Joseph Smith’s theology in polygamy, she felt the same way about Young as she did about polygamy. The two didn’t get along–putting it mildly. Most RLDS people will agree that the RLDS Church is Emma’s Church and the Mormon Church is Joseph Smith’s.

The Mormon church believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet to his last breath and the RLDS believes he was a fallen prophet. That probably is the most succinct distinction between the two churches.

Alma
byteline.blogspot.com
 
Amazing…I knew that the Mormon church believed that Joseph Smith was their prophet but I never knew the RLDS believed he was a ** fallen prophet.**

Does anyone know which church (Mormon or RLDS) follows closer to the teachings that Joseph Smith had intended from the beginning?
 
Keikiolu said:
Arghhh,… they worship the Cosmic Nautilus…!!?

And the “cross” is just a calibration mark to establish north-south’edness so that when the Cosmic Nautilus comes, He won’t “mate” badly and injure Himself.
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The RLDS are Trinitarian Mormons with an Evangelical Protestant flavor.
 
Kristine1957 said:
Amazing…I knew that the Mormon church believed that Joseph Smith was their prophet but I never knew the RLDS believed he was a fallen prophet.

Does anyone know which church (Mormon or RLDS) follows closer to the teachings that Joseph Smith had intended from the beginning?
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Kristine, Joseph Smith often changed his opinions on doctrine so it’s hard to p(name removed by moderator)oint which church follows the ‘true Mormon’ doctrine. The Prairie Saints (RLDS) Book of Mormon uses the unedited edition and the Rocky Mountain Saints (LDS) use a version that has been highly edited by various Presidencies.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Christ (a good starting point but not a good reference).
 
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