Applause during Mass

[quiet52]

Father David I don’t doubt your words that “applause” isn’t mentioned in the Book of Blessings. In my hurried remark that the commissioning service is on the USCCB website, I was inadequately trying to illustrate that the fact that the Catechists’ Commissioning Service Rite (which allows applause) is on the bishops’ website implies that it is approved by the bishops.

In one of your posts, you stated:

The only time applause can licitly occur within the Mass is at an ordination Mass when the congregation expresses it’s support (and historically, it’s approval) of the ordinand.

Is there any official Vatican document which expressly forbids applause during a liturgy, or calls it illicit?

I am wondering if you would disallow applause after a man and woman are declared man and wife during the Rite of Matrimony, whether during a Mass or outside of Mass?

I believe that applause can be overdone – or “over-allowed” – by some priests to the point where it does distract from the liturgy of the Mass. I think I understand where Pope Benedict might have been coming from, when, as Cardinal, he wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievment, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” However, this is his personal opinion, shared in a book. Unless there is something in canon law, an encyclical or apostolic letter, we are not bound to agree with him that applause “is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared” – nor that applause always indicates religious entertainment.

Although I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of a congregation applauding, I have seen that it can have value without detracting from our worship. It does not necessarily negate the reverence toward Jesus and the awesomeness of the shared experience of, or full/active participation in, the liturgy. I think the words are a sweeping generalization and are unjust in many circumstances – no one but our Lord can judge our hearts and motivations as we celebrate the liturgy. I’ve seen applause done with sincere joy and spirit of shared celebration and which does not distract from the solemnity of the Mass and which is not done to boost anyone’s egos.

If you as a priest, Father David, personally object to applause being allowed in a Rite which is being promoted by the U.S. bishops, have you, or have other priests, shared your objections with them? If so, what was the response?

Again, there will be a lot of applause being done throughout the nation this coming Sunday, Catechetical Sunday, as catechists are commissioned, because the Rite allows for it. Since it’s being officially allowed, I say, “look for the good” with a spirit of joy and celebration, rather than with criticism and condemnation. The fact that people are stepping forward to pass on the faith as catechists IS something to celebrate nowadays – and it IS all about Jesus and the participating in His Great Commission, not about giving undue attention to individuals. Just my two cents’ worth.

 

[Malkin71]

Father David I don’t doubt your words that “applause” isn’t mentioned in the Book of Blessings. In my hurried remark that the commissioning service is on the USCCB website, I was inadequately trying to illustrate that the fact that the Catechists’ Commissioning Service Rite (which allows applause) is on the bishops’ website implies that it is approved by the bishops.

In one of your posts, you stated:

Is there any official Vatican document which expressly forbids applause during a liturgy, or calls it illicit?

I am wondering if you would disallow applause after a man and woman are declared man and wife during the Rite of Matrimony, whether during a Mass or outside of Mass?

I believe that applause can be overdone – or “over-allowed” – by some priests to the point where it does distract from the liturgy of the Mass. I think I understand where Pope Benedict might have been coming from, when, as Cardinal, he wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievment, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” However, this is his personal opinion, shared in a book. Unless there is something in canon law, an encyclical or apostolic letter, we are not bound to agree with him that applause “is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared” – nor that applause always indicates religious entertainment.

Although I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of a congregation applauding, I have seen that it can have value without detracting from our worship. It does not necessarily negate the reverence toward Jesus and the awesomeness of the shared experience of, or full/active participation in, the liturgy. I think the words are a sweeping generalization and are unjust in many circumstances – no one but our Lord can judge our hearts and motivations as we celebrate the liturgy. I’ve seen applause done with sincere joy and spirit of shared celebration and which does not distract from the solemnity of the Mass and which is not done to boost anyone’s egos.

If you as a priest, Father David, personally object to applause being allowed in a Rite which is being promoted by the U.S. bishops, have you, or have other priests, shared your objections with them? If so, what was the response?

Again, there will be a lot of applause being done throughout the nation this coming Sunday, Catechetical Sunday, as catechists are commissioned, because the Rite allows for it. Since it’s being officially allowed, I say, “look for the good” with a spirit of joy and celebration, rather than with criticism and condemnation. The fact that people are stepping forward to pass on the faith as catechists IS something to celebrate nowadays – and it IS all about Jesus and the participating in His Great Commission, not about giving undue attention to individuals. Just my two cents’ worth.

My opinion is “Applause” during Mass takes away the focus from the Mass. When there is “Applause” it creates a different atmosphere. Before, it people are concentrating and un union. After the “Applause” you have to get yourself back into focus of the Mass. Also the Mass is a prayer. I do not like it when someone distracts me from prayer. I like to remain focus.

 

[quiet52]

My opinion is “Applause” during Mass takes away the focus from the Mass. When there is “Applause” it creates a different atmosphere. Before, it people are concentrating and un union. After the “Applause” you have to get yourself back into focus of the Mass. Also the Mass is a prayer. I do not like it when someone distracts me from prayer. I like to remain focus.

Just a suggestion … next time the priest and/or congregation applauds in your parish (which is generally done either just before Dismissal or after the closing hymn), pray “thank you, God, thank you” as you clap.

 

[Malkin71]

Just a suggestion … next time the priest and/or congregation applauds in your parish (which is generally done either just before Dismissal or after the closing hymn), pray “thank you, God, thank you” as you clap.

It still will distract me.

 

[FrDavid96]

Father David I don’t doubt your words that “applause” isn’t mentioned in the Book of Blessings. In my hurried remark that the commissioning service is on the USCCB website, I was inadequately trying to illustrate that the fact that the Catechists’ Commissioning Service Rite (which allows applause) is on the bishops’ website implies that it is approved by the bishops.

In one of your posts, you stated:

Is there any official Vatican document which expressly forbids applause during a liturgy, or calls it illicit?

I am wondering if you would disallow applause after a man and woman are declared man and wife during the Rite of Matrimony, whether during a Mass or outside of Mass?

I believe that applause can be overdone – or “over-allowed” – by some priests to the point where it does distract from the liturgy of the Mass. I think I understand where Pope Benedict might have been coming from, when, as Cardinal, he wrote “Whenever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievment, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment.” However, this is his personal opinion, shared in a book. Unless there is something in canon law, an encyclical or apostolic letter, we are not bound to agree with him that applause “is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared” – nor that applause always indicates religious entertainment.

Although I’m not entirely comfortable with the idea of a congregation applauding, I have seen that it can have value without detracting from our worship. It does not necessarily negate the reverence toward Jesus and the awesomeness of the shared experience of, or full/active participation in, the liturgy. I think the words are a sweeping generalization and are unjust in many circumstances – no one but our Lord can judge our hearts and motivations as we celebrate the liturgy. I’ve seen applause done with sincere joy and spirit of shared celebration and which does not distract from the solemnity of the Mass and which is not done to boost anyone’s egos.

If you as a priest, Father David, personally object to applause being allowed in a Rite which is being promoted by the U.S. bishops, have you, or have other priests, shared your objections with them? If so, what was the response?

Again, there will be a lot of applause being done throughout the nation this coming Sunday, Catechetical Sunday, as catechists are commissioned, because the Rite allows for it. Since it’s being officially allowed, I say, “look for the good” with a spirit of joy and celebration, rather than with criticism and condemnation. The fact that people are stepping forward to pass on the faith as catechists IS something to celebrate nowadays – and it IS all about Jesus and the participating in His Great Commission, not about giving undue attention to individuals. Just my two cents’ worth.

I wish I could find some way to get you to understand this, other than by repeating it, but (that famous word): it is not in the ritual. It simply is not there. The US Bishops did not approve it, and Rome did not grant recognition to this text. It is not officially allowed. You aren’t reading (and quoting) an official text of the Church.

The issue of applause itself aside for the moment. My primary concern here is that you (and many others) are under the impression that the text you are reading is an official approved text: which it is not. Simply because we find something on a webpage, that does not make it an offical text. That’s why I am so concerned right now, because it is difficult for Catholics to discern the difference between a legitimate text approved by Rome on the one hand, and someone else’s private alteration of the text on the other hand.

 

[quiet52]

I wish I could find some way to get you to understand this, other than by repeating it, but (that famous word): it is not in the ritual. It simply is not there. The US Bishops did not approve it, and Rome did not grant recognition to this text. It is not officially allowed. You aren’t reading (and quoting) an official text of the Church.

The issue of applause itself aside for the moment. My primary concern here is that you (and many others) are under the impression that the text you are reading is an official approved text: which it is not. Simply because we find something on a webpage, that does not make it an offical text. That’s why I am so concerned right now, because it is difficult for Catholics to discern the difference between a legitimate text approved by Rome on the one hand, and someone else’s private alteration of the text on the other hand.

Dear Father,
I see you’re earnest about me and others embracing your perspective, but I hope you’ll consider mine without thinking I’m just being contentious.

We run-of-the-mill Catholics, even when active in our parishes, don’t exactly have ready access to the Book of Blessings or other official Church texts (except for those on the Internet). The double-checking to discern authenticity or “official-ness” shouldn’t be left up to us. I think it’s quite natural for us to assume that when a rite is posted on the official USCCB website, that it carries the weight of authority by the bishops. It seems you disagree, and you may or may not be right; however, we lay people (at least in my diocese) are taught by our diocesan officials to look to the guidance of the USCCB in a variety of ministries (I know this, because I’m involved with more than one ministry / outreach activity and have been thus advised). If the US bishops are using “private alterations” of officially-approved texts, then shame on them, but we lay faithful should not be criticized for trusting the source. We should not be considered disobedient, or ignorant of or failing to realize anything, when it’s the bishops who are telling us to use a particular rite.

So the reality is – when applause is allowed in a rite that is posted on the U.S. bishops’ website or that is provided by a bishop, people are going to clap. They and their pastors shouldn’t be faulted for this cultural adaptation - perhaps the bishops should be. In light of the reality that congregations will be led in applause by their pastors or Religious Education directors during the catechists’ commissioning rite this weekend because the bishops say it’s okay, well, let’s just try to keep our focus on Jesus while we do so, rather than squirm or make anything negative out of it.

Dear Lord Jesus, may the catechists answering your call to evangelize in this very important way celebrate the gift of faith they are handing down to others. Thank you Lord for sending children, teens and adults to them, so that they may continue to grow in their understanding of the faith and to more fully know you. Amen.
:clapping:
usccb.org/catecheticalsunday/
(click on liturgy materials, then on Commissioning Service Rite)

 

[FrDavid96]

Dear Father,
I see you’re earnest about me and others embracing your perspective, but I hope you’ll consider mine without thinking I’m just being contentious.

We run-of-the-mill Catholics, even when active in our parishes, don’t exactly have ready access to the Book of Blessings or other official Church texts (except for those on the Internet). The double-checking to discern authenticity or “official-ness” shouldn’t be left up to us. I think it’s quite natural for us to assume that when a rite is posted on the official USCCB website, that it carries the weight of authority by the bishops. It seems you disagree, and you may or may not be right; however, we lay people (at least in my diocese) are taught by our diocesan officials to look to the guidance of the USCCB in a variety of ministries (I know this, because I’m involved with more than one ministry / outreach activity and have been thus advised). If the US bishops are using “private alterations” of officially-approved texts, then shame on them, but we lay faithful should not be criticized for trusting the source. We should not be considered disobedient, or ignorant of or failing to realize anything, when it’s the bishops who are telling us to use a particular rite.

So the reality is – when applause is allowed in a rite that is posted on the U.S. bishops’ website or that is provided by a bishop, people are going to clap. They and their pastors shouldn’t be faulted for this cultural adaptation - perhaps the bishops should be. In light of the reality that congregations will be led in applause by their pastors or Religious Education directors during the catechists’ commissioning rite this weekend because the bishops say it’s okay, well, let’s just try to keep our focus on Jesus while we do so, rather than squirm or make anything negative out of it.

Dear Lord Jesus, may the catechists answering your call to evangelize in this very important way celebrate the gift of faith they are handing down to others. Thank you Lord for sending children, teens and adults to them, so that they may continue to grow in their understanding of the faith and to more fully know you. Amen.
:clapping:
usccb.org/catecheticalsunday/
(click on liturgy materials, then on Commissioning Service Rite)

Yes, I agree that it is quite natural for people to assume that what is published on the USCCB website is the approved ritual of the Church–I said as much in my very first response to you.

But still, you keep saying that “the bishops approved this” and I’m simply pointing-out to you that that statment is not true–it’s not a true fact, but it is what you were led to believe. The bishops did not approve it–they can only suggest changes, which must ultimately be approved by Rome. That means that if there was a vote by the bishops, such a vote would have to have been submitted to Rome for approval, and this obviously did not happen. Someone (and I don’t know who, but I do know it was not “the bishops”) took the text and altered it. I don’t know who that someone was, but I know that it was not the Conference of Bishops because if that happened, the Book of Blessings would have to be re-printed (in part or in whole)–since it alters the text which Rome already approved.

The text doesn’t have the weight of authority of the USCCB–even though it might be presented in that way by whoever composed the webpage. Is this misleading? In my opinion, absolutely yes.

I don’t think you’re being contentious here–I do think you’re being misled, and that’s what I’m trying to address.

Let me give an example. Let’s say that I print in my parish bulletin that the USCCB guidelines for Communion say that from now on, Communion in the hand is forbidden. People might read that and easily come to the conclusion that it can’t be done anymore. But the fact that it’s printed in the bulletin doesn’t mean that the bishops have actually done this. No matter how many people read the bulletin and say “the bishops say we can’t do it”, that still doesn’t change the objective fact that the bishops never actually voted on this. That’s precisely what we see happening with this webpage.

 

[ChibiViolet]

I dont applause nor hold hands during the Our Father nor do I Orans Posture. Funny thing is according to what I know Im doing the right things but look like the odd man out…LOL

Ive even been scoffed at for my unwillingness to participate in holding hands.

I dont go to Mass for entertainment.

Its only 1 hour why do people feel the need to add things? Is not the presence of Christ enough? Have people lost faith in the true presence and thats why we feel the need to clap,hold hands, flail hands out (and also with you) To me this is all show. Is it any wonder applause has crept in?

I thought holding hands during the Our Father had gone out of style. Also, I didn’t know it was wrong. I don’t like it personally as it makes it hard for me to focus on the actual prayer I’m praying (the Our Father,) but for some it brings a sense of connection and we are connected really, as the body of Christ. Why is it wrong exactly and is there a Church document that says not to do it?

 

[ChibiViolet]

Yes, I agree that it is quite natural for people to assume that what is published on the USCCB website is the approved ritual of the Church–I said as much in my very first response to you.

But still, you keep saying that “the bishops approved this” and I’m simply pointing-out to you that that statment is not true–it’s not a true fact, but it is what you were led to believe. The bishops did not approve it–they can only suggest changes, which must ultimately be approved by Rome. That means that if there was a vote by the bishops, such a vote would have to have been submitted to Rome for approval, and this obviously did not happen. Someone (and I don’t know who, but I do know it was not “the bishops”) took the text and altered it. I don’t know who that someone was, but I know that it was not the Conference of Bishops because if that happened, the Book of Blessings would have to be re-printed (in part or in whole)–since it alters the text which Rome already approved.

The text doesn’t have the weight of authority of the USCCB–even though it might be presented in that way by whoever composed the webpage. Is this misleading? In my opinion, absolutely yes.

I don’t think you’re being contentious here–I do think you’re being misled, and that’s what I’m trying to address.

Let me give an example. Let’s say that I print in my parish bulletin that the USCCB guidelines for Communion say that from now on, Communion in the hand is forbidden. People might read that and easily come to the conclusion that it can’t be done anymore. But the fact that it’s printed in the bulletin doesn’t mean that the bishops have actually done this. No matter how many people read the bulletin and say “the bishops say we can’t do it”, that still doesn’t change the objective fact that the bishops never actually voted on this. That’s precisely what we see happening with this webpage.

So then would it be of grave matter to clap during Mass when everyone else is clapping or to not bring this up to the priest of my parish and or the Bishop of my diocese?