Apple CEO Tim Cook comes out: 'I'm proud to be gay'

[NeedsMercy]

Are you saying that pedophilia is okay because God created pedophiles?

To repeat: “God created all sexual orientations.” Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation.

 

[SunnyslopeIII]

To repeat: “God created all sexual orientations.” Pedophilia is not a sexual orientation.

How do you figure that from a logical standpoint? It is a sexual desire. What distinguishes it from a sexual desire from someone of the same sex? Are pedophillic desires not part of God’s creation? If not, why not? How is desire for someone of the same sex different ontologically from desire for someone who is pre-pubescent?

 

[SunnyslopeIII]

How do you figure that from a logical standpoint? It is a sexual desire. What distinguishes it from a sexual desire from someone of the same sex? Are pedophillic desires not part of God’s creation? If not, why not? How is desire for someone of the same sex different ontologically from desire for someone who is pre-pubescent?

Ditto, btw, with bestiality. Did God create those desires, that orientation? If not, why not?

 

[NeedsMercy]

You are the one who introduced medicine, where did you see me refer to a medical condition? If you don’t know
about catholic terms like disorder which are philosophical, better ask than engage strawmen. BOTH blindness and homosexuality are disorders. If it bothers you that one is a physical disorder and one is not, that’s not my problem.::

To repeat: “When you started this discussion, you equated homosexuality with blindness, a physical disorder of the human body. That’s the point that I was arguing. If you want to change the parameters of your discussion every time you comment, just say so, or stay on topic.”

The medical condition that YOU referred to was blindness. Nowhere does the Catholic Church say that homosexuality is a physical disorder similar to blindness. I know the term as used by the Church. You can use the word “disorder” however you want like “Curdling is a disorder of milk” but just because you think that curdling and homosexuality are both “disorders” doesn’t make them equal. That’s it.

Your flippant responses are proof you have no real arguments. Thank you for proving the point that eating granite is a disorder. It appears sense still prevails in some quarters of those erudite psychologists. Now, if only they were consistent ::

If you think I have no argument, it’s because you’re not reading my posts. Or maybe you just don’t understand them.

I see some offence, pedophiles and psychopaths too low on your hierarchy scale to be compared to homosexuals? Perhaps this lot actually chose their own conditions, unlike the precious gay people?

Could somebody translate this into English?

Still, you made the ridiculous claim that homosexuality was made by God, apparently because there are gay people on CAF Why do you drop your own principles when it comes to the conditions you despise? Is it because perhaps you doubt that there ARE pedophiles and psychopaths in this world, or do they have to be on CAF

What I actually said: “Whether you like it or not, God has made some people gay. If you don’t believe me, believe some of the gay people who post on CAF.” Since you believed nothing of which I was saying, I thought you might want to get a confirmation directly from a gay person on CAF that God did indeed make them. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

God made all sexual orientations. He also made all sorts of eye colors and all varieties of root vegetables. If He didn’t, who did? Where did they all come from?

What “principles” of mine are you talking about?
What “conditions” do I “despise”?
“Perhaps * doubt that there ARE pedophiles and psychopaths in this world”?
I have to plead ignorance here because, once again, I have no idea what the freak you’re talking about.

Nice straw man. God made people, he did not make pedophilia, homosexuality, psychopathy, bestiality or any other unchosen disordered predisposition. To say he did IS heresy. Interesting you use the term “heresy” when it suits you, though. Where do you tuck in the rest of your catholic faith when it comes to “disorder”?

Not even close to being a strawman. Get real. You compared gays to pedophiles and psychopaths! Do you expect people not to react negatively when you say things like this? It is extremely uncharitable, at best; and theologically and psychologically incorrect, at the very least.

What I actually said: “Again with the comparison to pedophilia and psychopathy? But, yes, now that you mention it, God did make the pedophiles and psychopaths. All of them. To say otherwise is heresy.”

Please stop bearing so much false witness. You know very well that I did not say that God made pedophilia, psychopathy or bestiality.

Which one is that one true faith? The catholic faith or your liberal ideology? At least be consistent. Should you decide on the former, you might want to acquaint yourself with what the Bible and the catechism have to say about homosexuality. Of course it might help if you don’t approach them as "spouting twisted, anti-diluvian values with no basis in real spirituality

."

I know what the Bible and the CCC have to say about homosexuality. And as much as you hate it, I’m a Catholic too. The One Truth Faith does not foment hatred but preaches love. That’s the one for me. *

 

[NeedsMercy]

How do you figure that from a logical standpoint? It is a sexual desire. What distinguishes it from a sexual desire from someone of the same sex? Are pedophillic desires not part of God’s creation? If not, why not? How is desire for someone of the same sex different ontologically from desire for someone who is pre-pubescent?

Ditto, btw, with bestiality. Did God create those desires, that orientation? If not, why not?

Logic is not required here. These are basic definitions. I believe another poster has already addressed your comments, but here we go again. Pedophilia and bestiality are not sexual orientations. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder. Bestiality is a paraphilia.

Sexual orientations:

Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of romantic or sexual attraction (or a combination of these) to persons of the opposite sex or gender, the same sex or gender, or to both sexes or more than one gender. These attractions are generally subsumed under heterosexuality, homosexuality, and bisexuality,[1][2] while asexuality (the lack of sexual attraction to others) is sometimes identified as the fourth category.[3][4][5][6] These categories are aspects of the more nuanced nature of sexual identity.[1] For example, people may use other labels, such as pansexual or polysexual,[7] or none at all.[1] According to the American Psychological Association, sexual orientation “also refers to a person’s sense of identity based on those attractions, related behaviors, and membership in a community of others who share those attractions”.[1][8]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

Pedophilia:

Pedophilia or paedophilia is a psychiatric disorder in which an adult or older adolescent experiences a primary or exclusive sexual attraction to prepubescent children, generally age 11 years or younger. As a medical diagnosis, specific criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13.[1][2][3][4] A person who is diagnosed with pedophilia must be at least 16 years of age; adolescents must be at least five years older than the prepubescent child for the attraction to be diagnosed as pedophilia.[1][2]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Bestiality or zoophilia:

Zoophilia is a paraphilia involving cross-species sexual activity between human and non-human animals or a fixation on such practice. The term zoophilia derives from the combination of two nouns in Greek: ζῷον (zṓion, meaning “animal”) and φιλία (philia, meaning “(fraternal) love”). As a suffix, -philia indicates an abnormal liking for or tendency towards a given thing. Thus, the term denotes an abnormal human sexual attraction to animals.[1]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia

 

[NeedsMercy]

Falsehood. God did not make anyone gay, any more than he made anyone selfish, lazy, angry, envious, lustful or murderous. Those conditions are consequences of the fall of creation from grace. God permits them because he made free will too, and allows its consequences to play out to completion while drawing good out of it all even though he didn’t cause it all. Homosexuals are not the only people who have predispositions that God never intended for them, we all do and there is lots of it in us all around. Its called original sin. Look it up in the catechism

God gave us our sexual orientations. You just happen to not like the orientations that some people have been given.

I think we should end our discussion right now. We’re going in circles.

 

[One_point]

To repeat: “When you started this discussion, you equated homosexuality with blindness, a physical disorder of the human body. That’s the point that I was arguing. If you want to change the parameters of your discussion every time you comment, just say so, or stay on topic.”

The medical condition that YOU referred to was blindness. Nowhere does the Catholic Church say that homosexuality is a physical disorder similar to blindness. I know the term as used by the Church. You can use the word “disorder” however you want like “Curdling is a disorder of milk” but just because you think that curdling and homosexuality are both “disorders” doesn’t make them equal. That’s it.

Blindness is a medical condition, I did not refer to it as a medical condition, that was you. I referred to is an example of something that does not follow the natural order which is the power of sight, and that is the catholic philosophical understanding of nature. Another example of something that does not follow the proper order of things, homosexuality.

If you think I have no argument, it’s because you’re not reading my posts. Or maybe you just don’t understand them.

I understand what you are saying perfectly. Your sole “argument” is that gay people exist therefore God made homosexuality. Whats difficult to understand there? It’s just that it is a clearly illogical argument to make. That things exist doesn’t mean God caused them all. Homosexuality is one of those things that exist because human nature is fallen, which means it is the result of someone’s sin, not God’s creative action.

What I actually said: “Whether you like it or not, God has made some people gay. If you don’t believe me, believe some of the gay people who post on CAF.” Since you believed nothing of which I was saying, I thought you might want to get a confirmation directly from a gay person on CAF that God did indeed make them. Is that so difficult for you to understand?

You were responding to my post that nobody was made naturally, beautifully homosexual in this world, is that so difficult for you to understand?

God made all sexual orientations. He also made all sorts of eye colors and all varieties of root vegetables. If He didn’t, who did? Where did they all come from?

God made eye clous and vegetables, he did not make homosexuality. It “came from” Adam’s sin. Just like my selfishness and other disordered tendencies. God never put any tendency to sin in anyone.

What “principles” of mine are you talking about?
What “conditions” do I “despise”?
“Perhaps * doubt that there ARE pedophiles and psychopaths in this world”?
I have to plead ignorance here because, once again, I have no idea what the freak you’re talking about. *I will explain “what the freak” I am talking about: Again, your BIG argument here: Gay people exist therefore God made homosexuality. That is the principle: A condition exists…God must have made it! Except of course psychopathy and pediophilia, they exist but God didn’t make them, you say? So where, to put it right back at you, did they come from? And why is the fact that they exist not enough to show “God made them”. Perhaps its because no one in CAF claims to be a pedophile or a psychopath.

Not even close to being a strawman. Get real. You compared gays to pedophiles and psychopaths! Do you expect people not to react negatively when you say things like this? It is extremely uncharitable, at best; and theologically and psychologically incorrect, at the very least.

Explain the lack of charity, explain how it is theologically incorrect. Which theological principles are you using to make these declarations? Psycopathy and pedophilia are all unchosen and predispose one to commit grave sin, just like homosexuality. If that offends you then truth offends you and theres nt much I can do to help with that since I wont lie for you either .

What I actually said: “Again with the comparison to pedophilia and psychopathy? But, yes, now that you mention it, God did make the pedophiles and psychopaths. All of them. To say otherwise is heresy.”

Please stop bearing so much false witness. You know very well that I did not say that God made pedophilia, psychopathy or bestiality.

Please stop bearing false witness yourself. You have been doing it all over your posts. In this quote of yourself here, you were making a non-sequitor. No one here is arguing that God did not make people who are gay. A total strawman. The argument is that God did not make them gay! Which is what YOU are arguing under the guise of “God made everyone” which no one denies.

I know what the Bible and the CCC have to say about homosexuality. And as much as you hate it, I’m a Catholic too. The One Truth Faith does not foment hatred but preaches love. That’s the one for me.

That’s the one that excludes “homosexuality is a disorder” bit of Catholicism? The one true faith teaches true love, it does not send people to hell by calling their sins God’s creation and then labelling itself “love”, it actually cares about what that term means. And of course, you may call yourself whatever you want. Mormorns believe they are the true Christians. A label does not affect the reality.

 

[One_point]

God gave us our sexual orientations. You just happen to not like the orientations that some people have been given.

Since you don’t care for the Bible or the Catechism, just what are you using to declare so confidently that God created homosexuality? God allows us to go through all sorts of difficulty, he allows us to exist in an imperfect condition–ALL of us, not just gay people–that does not mean God created all those conditions. Since you are speaking on behalf of God it would be good to help with sources, if its not the catholic church and Bible, just where did you aquire your insights on God’s creative action?

I think we should end our discussion right now. We’re going in circles.

You mean you cannot substantiate any of your claims with logic or scripture and simply demanding they be accepted because you declare them is not working.

 

[One_point]

Logic is not required here. These are basic definitions. I believe another poster has already addressed your comments, but here we go again. Pedophilia and bestiality are not sexual orientations. Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder. Bestiality is a paraphilia.

Sexual orientations:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_orientation

Pedophilia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

Bestiality or zoophilia:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoophilia

Good references for scientific categories. If only Wikipedia could also be referenced to prove that “God made all sexual orientations.” which is the assertion the poster you are responding to challenged.

 

[NeedsMercy]

Good references for scientific categories. If only Wikipedia could also be referenced to prove that “God made all sexual orientations.” which is the assertion the poster you are responding to challenged.

First, these were not given as “references for scientific categories”. Such references were not requested nor required. These serve as definitions only.

Second, if SunnyslopeIII has a problem with these, he or she should tell me him- or herself. I won’t hold a virtual discussion with SunnyslopeIII through you. Got that?

 

[NeedsMercy]

You mean you cannot substantiate any of your claims with logic or scripture and simply demanding they be accepted because you declare them is not working.

No, I said that we were going in circles. But Momma didn’t raise no wuss.

That God created all things is not a claim. It’s truth. And I don’t demand you to accept anything, except maybe your own sexuality

Since you don’t care for the Bible or the Catechism, just what are you using to declare so confidently that God created homosexuality?

So you discern hearts now too? I said God created our sexual orientations. SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS. I never said that God created homosexuality. Bearing false witness again. :tsktsk: And being purposefully dense is not a good debate strategy.

You God allows us to go through all sorts of difficulty, he allows us to exist in an imperfect condition–ALL of us, not just gay people–that does not mean God created all those conditions. Since you are speaking on behalf of God it would be good to help with sources, if its not the catholic church and Bible, just where did you aquire your insights on God’s creative action?

I am not speaking on behalf of God. Don’t be uncharitable.

338 Nothing exists that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history are rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun.207 (297)

If, as you say, God did not create and give us our sexual orientations, how exactly did you get your heterosexuality? (Making another assumption here)

 

[One_point]

First, these were not given as “references for scientific categories”. Such references were not requested nor required. These serve as definitions only.

Second, if SunnyslopeIII has a problem with these, he or she should tell me him- or herself. I won’t hold a virtual discussion with SunnyslopeIII through you. Got that?

First, your comment is on a public forum. Anyone can respond. You don’t get to determine who can challenge your claims on a public forum, got that?

 

[One_point]

No, I said that we were going in circles. But Momma didn’t raise no wuss.

That God created all things is not a claim. It’s truth. And I don’t demand you to accept anything, except maybe your own sexuality

It is a truth that no one debates, except you and…well, no one, just you. The debate is that God made the people, not the disordered sexual orientation they suffer from.

So you discern hearts now too? I said God created our sexual orientations. SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS. I never said that God created homosexuality. Bearing false witness again. :tsktsk: And being purposefully dense is not a good debate strategy.

And then you referenced articles that say homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Now look whose being purposefully dense; homosexuality is not a sexual orientation? What is it, a fruit?

I am not speaking on behalf of God. Don’t be uncharitable.

“God made all sexual orientations,” Sure, that’s not speaking on God’s behalf at all. And before you go out dolling advice on being “charitable”, spend some time reading through your responses, but before that, remove that log out under you eye, it’s making things blurry…

If, as you say, God did not create and give us our sexual orientations, how exactly did you get your heterosexuality? (Making another assumption here)

“As I say” God made heterosexuality, not homosexuality (the disorder). I get that from a very simple reading of the bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I got my sexuality from him, as did gay people. The orientation of their sexuality came from their fallen humanity, same place I got my impatience with “the purposefully dense.” Such choicy words, And you talk of “charitable”? Such a tease

 

[One_point]

Quote:
338 **Nothing exists **that does not owe its existence to God the Creator. The world began when God’s word drew it out of nothingness; all existent beings, all of nature, and all human history are rooted in this primordial event, the very genesis by which the world was constituted and time begun.207 (297)

Just highlighted the crucial bits for others who may be easily misled by references to irrelevant (to the argument) doctrines. God made all that exists. An orientation is a direction and tendency, it does not have “being”. The proper orientation is that which puts things together that are MEANT for each other. Homosexuality, like pedophilia or an attraction for animals is a misdirection of sexuality. It has the wrong object, and that is why it is declared disordered by the church. God did not create that misdirection, any more than he created the misdirection of love that makes us proud and selfish. Now, let no one confuse you readers that this text proves that God made homosexual orientation or any other unnatural inclination. That is another religion, not Christianity.

Also, Now that I’ve answered all your questions (needsmercy), maybe you could also answer where you think psychopathy and pedophilia come from?

 

[One_point]

It is a truth that no one debates, except you and…well, no one, just you. The debate is that God made the people, not the disordered sexual orientation they suffer from.

And then you referenced articles that say homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Now look whose being purposefully dense; homosexuality is not a sexual orientation? What is it, a fruit?

“God made all sexual orientations,” Sure, that’s not speaking on God’s behalf at all. And before you go out dolling advice on being “charitable”, spend some time reading through your responses, but before that, remove that log out under you eye, it’s making things blurry…

“As I say” God made heterosexuality, not homosexuality (the disorder). I get that from a very simple reading of the bible and the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I got my sexuality from him, as did gay people. The orientation of their sexuality came from their fallen humanity, same place I got my impatience with “the purposefully dense.” Such choicy words, And you talk of “charitable”? Such a tease

Now that I’ve answered, maybe you could also answer where you think psychopathy and pedophilia come from?

 

[NeedsMercy]

Blindness is a medical condition, I did not refer to it as a medical condition, that was you. I referred to is an example of something that does not follow the natural order which is the power of sight, and that is the catholic philosophical understanding of nature. Another example of something that does not follow the proper order of things, homosexuality.

“Blindness is a medical condition, I did not refer to it as a medical condition, that was you.”

HUH?

What you actually said: All of things are good in themselves and perfectly according to God’s design. I’ve never heard of people being “proud” of blindness or other disorders, but rather of their ability to be their best despite them. In other words these are more like unchosen challenges to normal human living, they are not in anyway like looks or talent. In any case, Christians should not really be “proud” even of the good things they have. They should be grateful to God for them and accepting of whatever is in their lives that they cannot change, because we know we and everything we have belongs to God is a gift, so pride should not be a normal part of our vocabulary. We should rather say, I am thankful for what God has done for me than I am proud to be x, y, z, no matter how positive it is.

What I actually said: The DSM has not defined homosexuality as a medical disorder since 1986. Being homosexual is not a choice.

PERIOD. End of story. End of this stupid discussion about semantics and who said what, when.

I understand what you are saying perfectly. Your sole “argument” is that gay people exist therefore God made homosexuality. Whats difficult to understand there? It’s just that it is a clearly illogical argument to make. That things exist doesn’t mean God caused them all. Homosexuality is one of those things that exist because human nature is fallen, which means it is the result of someone’s sin, not God’s creative action.

Well, let’s just say there’s probably a reason why you are choosing so vehemently to “not understand”. God created all sexual orientations, even the ones you don’t like. Not hard to understand at all.

We currently do not know why homosexuality exists. There are too many variables to say with any certainty. I’ll leave it to you to figure out all the reasons why God created homosexuals. Perhaps you’ll see fit to share the Divine Plan with us mere mortals one day.

You were responding to my post that nobody was made naturally, beautifully homosexual in this world, is that so difficult for you to understand?

God made eye clous and vegetables, he did not make homosexuality. It “came from” Adam’s sin. Just like my selfishness and other disordered tendencies. God never put any tendency to sin in anyone.

Yeah, got your point. No natural homosexuals. No beautiful homosexuals. Blah, blah, blah. Going in circles.

I will explain “what the freak” I am talking about: Again, your BIG argument here: Gay people exist therefore God made homosexuality. That is the principle: A condition exists…God must have made it! Except of course psychopathy and pediophilia, they exist but God didn’t make them, you say? So where, to put it right back at you, did they come from? And why is the fact that they exist not enough to show “God made them”. Perhaps its because no one in CAF claims to be a pedophile or a psychopath.

First, I never said God made homosexuality. I said God created homosexuals and all sexual orientations. You know this, but just choose to ignore my real position, in favor of your trumped-up version. Any casual reader can tell the difference between the two. Give it up.

Secondly, what you actually said: “Why do you drop your own principles when it comes to the conditions you despise? Is it because perhaps you doubt that there ARE pedophiles and psychopaths in this world, or do they have to be on CAF”.

I wish you could be more concise in your language. A “principle” is defined as “a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning”. If one “drops one’s principles” it means that they have abandoned one of their beliefs. Further, since you failed to specify anything, I have to assume that “conditions * despise” would be pedophilia, bestiality or psychopathies.

In reality, I abandoned none of my beliefs. God created all sexual orientations. Pedophilia, bestiality and psychopathies ARE NOT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS. ‘kay? Please don’t let me, or anyone else, have to repeat this to you. You would like for me to have said that God created pedophilia, bestiality and psychopathies, but I just didn’t. And you know it. Again, a casual reader could see the difference.
.*

 

[NeedsMercy]

Except of course psychopathy and pediophilia, they exist but God didn’t make them, you say?

That is correct, because they are not sexual orientations.

So where, to put it right back at you, did they come from?

Sorry, but I am not learned as to the causes of psychopathies and pedophilia. Perhaps you should consult a psychiatrist for more information on these subjects.

And why is the fact that they exist not enough to show “God made them”. Perhaps its because no one in CAF claims to be a pedophile or a psychopath.

We just don’t know the causes of these things. Suppose we found out that the tendency to pedophilia is caused by a genetic mutation. We could then say the tendency was given by God who ordained the mutation. We just don’t know.

Explain the lack of charity, explain how it is theologically incorrect. Which theological principles are you using to make these declarations? Psycopathy and pedophilia are all unchosen and predispose one to commit grave sin, just like homosexuality. If that offends you then truth offends you and theres nt much I can do to help with that since I wont lie for you either .

What I actually said: “You compared gays to pedophiles and psychopaths! Do you expect people not to react negatively when you say things like this? It is extremely uncharitable, at best; and theologically and psychologically incorrect, at the very least."

You didn’t answer my question, but, no matter. First, there is absolutely no scientific or medical evidence which has been shown to link homosexuality with either pedophilia or psychopathies. Second, even the Church doesn’t make such an asinine comparison. Third, linking homosexuals to pedophilia and psychopathies offends not just gays, but everyone, except, of course, you, which I can’t explain.

Please stop bearing false witness yourself. You have been doing it all over your posts.

Repeating my post:

What I actually said: “Again with the comparison to pedophilia and psychopathy? But, yes, now that you mention it, God did make the pedophiles and psychopaths. All of them. To say otherwise is heresy."

Please stop bearing so much false witness. You know very well that I did not say that God made pedophilia, psychopathy or bestiality.

Where are the lies?

In this quote of yourself here, you were making a non-sequitor. No one here is arguing that God did not make people who are gay. A total strawman. The argument is that God did not make them gay! Which is what YOU are arguing under the guise of “God made everyone” which no one denies.

I have been saying in this thread that (1) God made gay people and that (2) He made all sexual orientations. I have never departed from these positions. You have been making up so many false stances and attributing them to me, that you have lost track of what I have actually said. These statements now appear like “strawmans” and “non sequiturs” to you only because of all the post manipulation that you have done.

That’s the one that excludes “homosexuality is a disorder” bit of Catholicism? The one true faith teaches true love, it does not send people to hell by calling their sins God’s creation and then labelling itself “love”, it actually cares about what that term means. And of course, you may call yourself whatever you want. Mormorns believe they are the true Christians. A label does not affect the reality.

Blah, blah, blah.

 

[One_point]

“Blindness is a medical condition, I did not refer to it as a medical condition, that was you.”

HUH?

What you actually said: All of things are good in themselves and perfectly according to God’s design. I’ve never heard of people being “proud” of blindness or other disorders, but rather of their ability to be their best despite them. In other words these are more like unchosen challenges to normal human living, they are not in anyway like looks or talent. In any case, Christians should not really be “proud” even of the good things they have. They should be grateful to God for them and accepting of whatever is in their lives that they cannot change, because we know we and everything we have belongs to God is a gift, so pride should not be a normal part of our vocabulary. We should rather say, I am thankful for what God has done for me than I am proud to be x, y, z, no matter how positive it is.

What I actually said: The DSM has not defined homosexuality as a medical disorder since 1986. Being homosexual is not a choice.

Exactly, you ran to the DSM and what it considers a “medical disorder”. Read that quote of mine and look for the phrase “medical disorder.” and when you don’t find it realize my quote had nothing to do with what you think are “medical disorders” but what are disorders. Simple.

PERIOD. End of story. End of this stupid discussion about semantics and who said what, when.

Right. You should realize by now your orders, tantrums, accusations don’t work with me. They are no substitutes for arguments. when you make claims you cannot substantiate, you will get responded to .

Well, let’s just say there’s probably a reason why you are choosing so vehemently to “not understand”. God created all sexual orientations, even the ones you don’t like. Not hard to understand at all.

There it is, “God created all sexual orientations, even those I don’t like”, after all those words denying that you claimed homosexuality is made by God. I understand you perfectly. Its just not my fault if your arguments are incoherent and self-contradictory at every turn. Now you say X, the next moment “Not X”, I will just highlight the incoherency as long as you keep exposing it in every post.

We currently do not know why homosexuality exists. There are too many variables to say with any certainty. I’ll leave it to you to figure out all the reasons why God created homosexuals. Perhaps you’ll see fit to share the Divine Plan with us mere mortals one day.

Why wait for one day? Pick the catechism today, find “original sin” and consequences of the fall… Also, I didn’t ask you to explain why homosexuality exists, I have a Bible, catechism and the online catholic encyclopedia for all that.

Yeah, got your point. No natural homosexuals.

Correct!

No beautiful homosexuals.

False.

First, I never said God made homosexuality. I said God created homosexuals and all sexual orientations…Give it up.

First, stop trying to issue orders to strangers on an anonymous board. It just wont work.

I asked you before, is homosexuality not a “sexual orientation” according to you? Is it a species of a tree? A dog? A TV station? Which are those orientations you accused me of not liking? Here are your words in case you missed them the several times you’ve typed them “God created all sexual orientations, even the ones you don’t like. Not hard to understand at all” Which are these sexual orientations God made that I don’t like, what are you referring to here if not homosexuality?

Secondly, what you actually said: “Why do you drop your own principles when it comes to the conditions you despise? Is it because perhaps you doubt that there ARE pedophiles and psychopaths in this world, or do they have to be on CAF”.

I wish you could be more concise in your language. …

Further, since you failed to specify anything, I have to assume that “conditions * despise” would be pedophilia, bestiality or psychopathies.*I explained what “principle” I was referring to, and that is the logic you were using for your argument that homosexuality is God-created: Gay people exist! (On CAF, no less), therefore their orientation was made by God. So your reference to your beiefs is another polemical game to ditch the actual debate. Just like the “God made people” one.

In reality, I abandoned none of my beliefs. God created all sexual orientations. Pedophilia, bestiality and psychopathies ARE NOT SEXUAL ORIENTATIONS. ‘kay?

And homosexuality is NOT a sexual orientation? Havent you just denied in this SAME post that you claimed God made homosexuality? Talk about confusion!

*“I said B! I never said B!! You liar” * …not just from the same poster but in the same post. We live in interesting times.

Please don’t let me, or anyone else, have to repeat this to you. You would like for me to have said that God created pedophilia, bestiality and psychopathies, but I just didn’t. And you know it. Again, a casual reader could see the difference.
.

I wouldn’t like you to have said anything. What you said was that God made the homosexual orientation because he made people who are gay. I referred to those “abhorred” conditions precisely because I guessed you’d rather eat your own hair than admit they were made by God, hence proving the illogical premise of your singular argument, “it exists, therefore God made it”.

 

[Brendan]

And the meaning of the term “disorder” as used by the Church is not clearly defined, IIRC…

It is, it is a moral disorder. Faith and morals are the subjects of which the Church can speak definitively on.

The object to which a homosexual inclination is ordered towards is an immoral one. Ergo, the inclination is a disorder (wrongly ordered towards) and of a nature relating to morals.

 

[One_point]

That is correct, because they are not sexual orientations.

Sorry, but I am not learned as to the causes of psychopathies and pedophilia. Perhaps you should consult a psychiatrist for more information on these subjects.

We just don’t know the causes of these things. Suppose we found out that the tendency to pedophilia is caused by a genetic mutation. We could then say the tendency was given by God who ordained the mutation. We just don’t know.

But you DO know where homosexuality is from, right? Because THAT one is a sexual orientation and of course by executive fiat you have declared on your own authority that “God made all sexual orientations.”

What I actually said: “You compared gays to pedophiles and psychopaths! Do you expect people not to react negatively when you say things like this? It is extremely uncharitable, at best; and theologically and psychologically incorrect, at the very least."

You didn’t answer my question, but, no matter.

Of course I answered, it is neither uncharitable nor theologically incorrect. You don’t get to make up your own theology and try to bully other view-points to toeing your line.

First, there is absolutely no scientific or medical evidence which has been shown to link homosexuality with either pedophilia or psychopathies.

So? Who said there was a medical link? Is medicine your source for truths about God and what “sexual orientations he made”? You may be learning your faith from some medical book, but I find it best to stick to the magisterium and catholic theology.

Second, even the Church doesn’t make such an asinine comparison

Asinine, yet you cannot demonstrate why, you just stick to name-calling and hope people don’t notice you’ve made no intelligent response anywhere in there.

Third, linking homosexuals to pedophilia and psychopathies offends not just gays, but everyone, except, of course, you, which I can’t explain.

Of course. And “everyone” hired you the chief, spokesman, did they? I dont care who you think it offends. If it is illogical, you should be able to demonstrate that without attempting emotional blackmail as a debate tactic.

I have been saying in this thread that (1) God made gay people and that (2) He made all sexual orientations. I have never departed from these positions. You have been making up so many false stances and attributing them to me, that you have lost track of what I have actually said. These statements now appear like “strawmans” and “non sequiturs” to you only because of all the post manipulation that you have done.

Lets see, the assortment of your claims;

1. You have said that you did NOT say God made “homosexuality”
2. Yet you said “God made all sexual orientations”
3. You clearly include homosexual orientation as a sexual orientation

Naah. Anyone reading this unless they are also confused would have to wonder if this statements are from the same individual and why this individual cannot just make up his mind about whether God made homosexuality or not?

Blah, blah, blah.

They might also wonder if this individual is a teenager.