Appropriate Punishment: Please read before voting.

[InnocentIII]

Ghosty:

While I’m very tempted to have 10 minutes alone in a dark, sound-proof place, I know that isn’t a holy thought worthy of a Christian.

Life in prison, NO parole, and in extreme lockdown and solitary. I’m talking solitary to the point of near sensory-depravation. No talking to others, minimal “recreation” time during the day (still isolated with snipers up in a tower watching their every move in a lock-down yard). I would also ideally have a special order of religious dedicated to praying for the souls of those who are locked up like this; someone needs to pray for them.

Honestly, I’d prefer death to this kind of lock-up, so I think it would be a perfectly suitable punishment.

I have a question - just to think about. If you were this person, knew you were guilty, had confessed and were then offered a choice - to die quickly or rot for 30 years in prison which would you choose?

Personally I think rotting in prison is a cruel punishment. This doesn’t mean I don;t think it is appropriate but it is easy for us to decide that death is a cruel punishment when we don’t think we will have to suffer either way.

 

[byzmelkite]

InnocentIII:

I have a question - just to think about. If you were this person, knew you were guilty, had confessed and were then offered a choice - to die quickly or rot for 30 years in prison which would you choose?

Personally I think rotting in prison is a cruel punishment. This doesn’t mean I don;t think it is appropriate but it is easy for us to decide that death is a cruel punishment when we don’t think we will have to suffer either way.

Exactly! The question of which punishment is worse (i.e. causes more pain and suffering) is subjective. That is why objective standards are used in justice and not subjective. A strict retributive view of justice is the most impartial and objective. A person who murders should be put to death, not because it is painful and horrible to be put to death, but because the murderer is forfeiting a life for the life taken.

 

[Petertherock]

If rotting in prison is such cruel punishment why do people always fight to avoid the death penalty? It’s because life in prison isn’t that bad. You get free meals, free TV, and a roof over your head. Maybe if they brought back hard labor and made jail a punishment and not a country club with free education and weight rooms we would have less people committing crimes.

Homeless people often commit crimes in the winter time just so they can go to a warm place to “live” during the cold months. Jail should be someplace where no one wants to be. Not a place to spend the winter months.

As for the death penalty, Jesus had plenty of opportunity to speak against the death penalty, but he didn’t. Even when the thief told the other thief “we are getting what we deserve.” Jesus could have rebuked him and said “No one deserves to die for sins they have repented for.” Or something else to that effect, but he didn’t. Death is an acceptable and appropriate punishment for the most heinous sins.

Of course with crimes like child molestation it doesn’t matter anyway because if you go to jail you are probably going to die anyway. Just look what happened to Father Goegan from Boston. He was in protective custody and the inmates got to him. It’s too bad they didn’t execute all the scum that molest children and maybe some more children would still be alive and others might not have had scarred lives. Of all the crimes out there, child molestation and murder are the worst of the worst.

On an unrelated note, they said on the news that Democrats are the best friends a child molester has because the Democrats are against a national registry of sex offenders. The trouble is without a national registry of sex offenders, these people can move out of state and not register and no one knows they are there until other children end up dead. It’s a proven fact that sex offenders cannot and will never be rehabilated. So death is the only way to truly protect the children from these animals.

 

[otm]

Life in prison, no parole, living in the general population.

Child molesters are either the bottom rung in prison society, or the second lowest rung.

In the general population they have a nickname - “short eyes”; and if you don’t understand, you probably don’t want to know.

 

[qmvsimp]

Petertherock:

If rotting in prison is such cruel punishment why do people always fight to avoid the death penalty? It’s because life in prison isn’t that bad. You get free meals, free TV, and a roof over your head. Maybe if they brought back hard labor and made jail a punishment and not a country club with free education and weight rooms we would have less people committing crimes.

Homeless people often commit crimes in the winter time just so they can go to a warm place to “live” during the cold months. Jail should be someplace where no one wants to be. Not a place to spend the winter months.

As for the death penalty, Jesus had plenty of opportunity to speak against the death penalty, but he didn’t. Even when the thief told the other thief “we are getting what we deserve.” Jesus could have rebuked him and said “No one deserves to die for sins they have repented for.” Or something else to that effect, but he didn’t. Death is an acceptable and appropriate punishment for the most heinous sins.

Of course with crimes like child molestation it doesn’t matter anyway because if you go to jail you are probably going to die anyway. Just look what happened to Father Goegan from Boston. He was in protective custody and the inmates got to him. It’s too bad they didn’t execute all the scum that molest children and maybe some more children would still be alive and others might not have had scarred lives. Of all the crimes out there, child molestation and murder are the worst of the worst.

On an unrelated note, they said on the news that Democrats are the best friends a child molester has because the Democrats are against a national registry of sex offenders. The trouble is without a national registry of sex offenders, these people can move out of state and not register and no one knows they are there until other children end up dead. It’s a proven fact that sex offenders cannot and will never be rehabilated. So death is the only way to truly protect the children from these animals.

And don’t forget St. Paul in Acts. He was acccused of a crime and was going to be put to death for it. He said that he wouldn’t be fighting the penalty against him (death), if he had commited the crime. See Acts 25:11

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

Exactly! The question of which punishment is worse (i.e. causes more pain and suffering) is subjective. That is why objective standards are used in justice and not subjective. A strict retributive view of justice is the most impartial and objective. A person who murders should be put to death, not because it is painful and horrible to be put to death, but because the murderer is forfeiting a life for the life taken.

But it won’t bring the victims back. Also, two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, it costs more than a life sentance

 

[777]

“Self defense” is not the primary purpose of punishment according to Aquinas and the tradition of the Church. That is an innovation of Pope John Paul II and while it has merit, it is not equal in merit to the traditional retributive purpose of punishment as proved from Scripture, Tradition, and Natural Law. Self defense of high society is important, but as St. Paul points out in his epistle to the Romans (Romans 13:4), “for s/he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for s/he does not bear the sword in vain; s/he is the servant of God to execute his/her wrath,hatred and revenge on the evildoer.”

Scripture is clear and STRONG. The state is God’s agent to administer wrath, hatred and vengeance on those who break the law. Notice that St. Paul is not talking about a Christian state or Catholic state. Paul is saying that the pagan empire of Rome is God’s agent of vengeance in the world. This is a far cry from the current anti-death penalty sentiment that is being promoted by our Bishops. But I will stick to divine revelation.

What’s with all that “he” stuff? Why not include “she” as well.
Only the secular would say that.

 

[pnewton]

777:

Also, two wrongs don’t make a right.

While this makes a good sound bite, it is a classic example of begging the question. It assumes the “wrong” it tries to prove wrong.

 

[byzmelkite]

777:

But it won’t bring the victims back. Also, two wrongs don’t make a right. Also, it costs more than a life sentance

As pnewton has also pointed out, this is begging the question. One must assume that the death penalty is wrong in order to make this statement. But punishment is not about bringing the victim back. Punishment is about re-establishing the balance of justice by requiring the offender to forfeit the equivalent of what was taken. After all, giving someone 15 years in prison for manslaughter won’t bring the victim back either.

 

[byzmelkite]

777:

What’s with all that “he” stuff? Why not include “she” as well.
Only the secular would say that.

I don’t know what your agenda is but you have changed my post. Apparently because I did not include the so-called “inclusive” language demanded by today’s feminazis. I find your tactics offensive.

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

I don’t know what your agenda is but you have changed my post. Apparently because I did not include the so-called “inclusive” language demanded by today’s feminazis. I find your tactics offensive.

Whatever…

 

[qmvsimp]

“My name is Grunch!! It rhymes with crunch!!”

What does this mean and where is it from?

 

[Viki59]

Question:
Do we have more child molesters now, or does it just seem that way because of the media coverage?
I hate seeing a new child murder every time I open a newspaper.

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

I don’t know what your agenda is but you have changed my post. Apparently because I did not include the so-called “inclusive” language demanded by today’s feminazis. I find your tactics offensive.

What’s wrong with that? That way, it’ll avoid confusion twixt males and females. No woman in her right mind wants to be treated as a subhuman. Besides, closure or not, a LOT of people (me too) voted a lot on life in jale with no parole

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

As pnewton has also pointed out, this is begging the question. One must assume that the death penalty is wrong in order to make this statement. But punishment is not about bringing the victim back. Punishment is about re-establishing the balance of justice by requiring the offender to forfeit the equivalent of what was taken. After all, giving someone 15 years in prison for manslaughter won’t bring the victim back either.

But it’s also playing God and Jesus. Shouldn’t justice be for our lord alone?

 

[777]

qmvsimp:

What does this mean and where is it from?

I got that line from an old 70’s cartoon show titled, “Help!! It’s The Hair Bear Bunch!!”

 

[byzmelkite]

777:

But it’s also playing God and Jesus. Shouldn’t justice be for our lord alone?

Its not playing God and Jesus. God has given the state explicit permission to use the death penalty. Look at both the book of Genesis and the book of Romans.

 

[byzmelkite]

777:

But it’s also playing God and Jesus. Shouldn’t justice be for our lord alone?

One more thought. If justice is for the Lord alone, then is it a sin to have a police force? Perhaps we shouldn’t have any laws. Maybe having laws is judgmental. Maybe criminals just need a hug, a smile, and a coca cola.

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

One more thought. If justice is for the Lord alone, then is it a sin to have a police force? Perhaps we shouldn’t have any laws. Maybe having laws is judgmental. Maybe criminals just need a hug, a smile, and a coca cola.

That would help. Only I prefer Pepsi.

 

[777]

byzmelkite:

Its not playing God and Jesus. God has given the state explicit permission to use the death penalty. Look at both the book of Genesis and the book of Romans.

The Book Of Romans also said, “Vengance is mine, saieth The Lord.” Which means such can ONLY be used by our heavenly father. What hurts the most is placing thease people to death, without giving them a chance to repent. Is it right for them to die in a state of evil, regardless of what they did? And like I said, it costs more than a life sentance, and it’s tough on the taxpayers. In fact, remember what Blanka said:

We would not be human if we didn’t feel horror and outrage at a crime such as this.
But as our holy priest told us during his homily at mass for Pentecost: when we allow the Holy Spirit to come into us, we become people of forgiveness and we cease holding anger, grudges, and seeking revenge.

I believe that if we seriously want to become Christ-like in our lives, we must strive to see the criminal as from the eyes of God. Surely God is horrified and hurting when someone commits such a terrible crime. But Christ would also look at the criminal as a person whose life has gone terribly twisted and spiraled out of control. I think the questions we must ask ourselves are: What has happened in this person’s life to cause a human being to reach a point that they would harm/kill someone? What has made them choose the evil path and reject goodness? How can we see the criminal as human when we are so horrified by his or her crime?
It is also very interesting that people who commit sex crimes (with real DSM diagnoses) are dealt with only for their crime and not the underlying illness. That is by no means an excuse for a terrible crime but why are we talking only about prison or the death penalty rather than incarceration and treatment so that the criminal can really see what his/her illness and actions have done to another person and receive treatment. And of course, if the criminal can find his or her way to a spiritual life, then a soul can be saved.
We do not know God’s timing for this person. God wants everyone to reconcile to Him and we cannot presume to take on God’s role of determining the man’s death.
In the case being discussed, I recall reading that the child’s (Protestant) minister asked his congregation to remember that we are asked by God to forgive.
We all hope for God’s forgiveness and mercy. How can we deny it to another?