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- Status
M
Maccabees
Guest
Even Islamic Arab Cartoons are not funny do these people have a sense of humore or is everything hate America?
N
Norwich
Guest
Has it never occured to you that this is how a large proportion of the world see’s you?
M
MichaelTDoyle
Guest
We’re starving our own citizens to death. Sometimes I see us this way, too. Social Darwinism has arrived.
D
Digitonomy
Guest
I really don’t see the problem with this cartoon. It represents exactly what we hear on this forum often, and in the real world often enough: In Ann Coulter’s words, kill their leaders, invade their country, and convert them to Christianity. Now Ann is more of an entertainer than someone who should be taken seriously, but the cartoon portrays a more limited policy of plucking leaders out of office when they oppose US aims - we did so with Saddam, we tried to do so with Arafat, we encouraged the street protests in Lebanon that would do so, and we are prepared to do similar if and when some hot-head leader becomes a big enough problem.
I think it’s good policy, when exercised judiciously. Although there’s certainly plenty of room to argue whether it’s a good idea to do so in this or that case.
I think it’s good policy, when exercised judiciously. Although there’s certainly plenty of room to argue whether it’s a good idea to do so in this or that case.
C
cestusdei
Guest
I don’t care how the “world” sees us. They hate us no matter what we do. As I see it they envy us. I could do a few cartoons showing what our opinion of many Arabs is like. They would not be flattering. Our English friend should be happy he is writing his posts in English, not German. But maybe someday he will have to write in Arabic, or else.
D
Darrel
Guest
It’s interesting how we are hated by them. Yet there is a big push right now for democracy in the midde east. I dont suppose the people over there are sick and tired of living like it’s the year 1250AD. The people in control in the Arab world are feeling a little insecure after the election in Iraq.
-D
J
jdnation
Guest
I often hear this comment that Europeans should be happy they ‘don’t speak German.’ It’s quite funny really. When one considers the fact that the American Public at the time was strongly opposed to getting involved in the War while the American Government saw opportunity to establish America as a World Power. If it weren’t for ‘Pearl Habor’ which forced America into it (though it is believed that the administration knew the attack was coming and sacrificed their men simply to enter a war that the public didn’t want).
Whatever you think happened, the important point to consider is this, and what we might even say was the US government’s wisdom for entering the war aside from opportunity. If America was consigned to simply ignore the war and let Europe be defeated and controlled by Nazi Germany… then who would come to America’s aid when Germany, Japan and possibly Russia having control of Asia decided to take over America as well? America entered the War not really as an act of goodwill (And who can really blame anyone who doesn’t want to fight and die in a war?) but really because at the very least it would be prudent to help out the Europeans in an effort to stop a growing military might that is bent on world domination which could one day cross over the Atlantic.
There is a quote that applies here:
“First they came for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.”
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Steph700
Guest
I’d like to share some of my own personal background.
From birth to age 20 I was raised to be very, very conservative. I thought being a republican= being a Christian. At the same time, I was also an evangelical protestant living in the midwest. September 11th rolled around my junior year of college and I was ready for war, I was ready for whatever it would take to defend my country from the evil arabs. In fact, if I’d had the opportunity to go, I probably would have. All I wanted was a cause to fight against… I was one of the strongest neo-conservatives you can imagine. I had a picture of George W on my dorm room wall, I’d hosted a huge BUSH election party the year prior.
But, you know, it’s amazing how one’s perspective can change. 4 months after Sept 11 I went to London to study abroad- this experience changed my life. I studied at a college that was not primarily British, it was an international university attended by people from 40 countries from around the world- awesome! Anyway, I found myself in an “American Presidents” class with one other American and the rest internationals.
Ok, as a sidenote… I don’t like to brag, but I think these details can factor into my story in an important way. I wasn’t one of those “smart kids”, I was one of those extremely smart, in the top .5% of standardized test takers, I-could-go-to college-basically-anywhere-in country-I-wanted type people. To top it off I’d had a great education in the States, was extremely steeped in conservative economics and world views etc.
So what happened in my classes, specifically in my American Presidents class? I was blown out of the water. I didn’t stand a chance. I left class in tears many days. Not because the other students were smarter than me- at least intelligence wise- but because these people had such and INCREDIBLE advantange on me of knowing things I had never been taught, of being aware of policies and presidents I had barely even heard of. These students knew my country better than I did, and it was HUMILIATING! I’d never been in a situation like that before, and I ate more than my fair share of humble pie.
The fact of the matter was, the perceptions of the world I had been fed in my safe little conservative upbringing were a bunch of lies. These people weren’t evil-loving pagans- they were my friends, they were intellectuals, they cared about people, they were just wonderful! And all of the highly intellectual and “highy moral” arguments about America and the “liberty” it so-called gives to other countries was just… made up. Those arguments didn’t hold water! I tried them in the real world and they didn’t work! I felt defeated, I felt like the background of everything I had believed was obliterated in a matter of weeks. It didn’t matter what a “great Christian, moral person” I was, it didn’t matter how smart I was. The fact was what I had been taught growing up (with a great American education!) was nothing compared to the truth my friends and classmates had been exposed to all of their lives.
Friends, it is not that people from other countries hate us (although they very well may hate our policies and rightfully so!), it’s that they have a completely different and often times better perspective on America than we do ourselves. It hurts to hear that, it’s embarassing to hear that, but unfortunately it’s just true. And the sooner we stop being so righteous about our country and as soon as we stop acting like we’re smarter than everyone else, the sooner we can realistically work towards peace.
I challenge those of you who have never been out of the country to do so if you have the means. If not, befriend someone from another country/culture and try to be openminded while learning from them. Non-Americans have a lot to teach us, we need to keep our attitudes in check as we are all God’s children and there should be some warning flags going up in our own heads when we realize the vast majority of the world (including our Catholic brothers and sisters abroad) are completely against our policies. They aren’t a bunch of stupid pagans, they have reasons for believing what they do. We have been indoctrinated with so many lies from the time we were kids.
Just my own :twocents:
From birth to age 20 I was raised to be very, very conservative. I thought being a republican= being a Christian. At the same time, I was also an evangelical protestant living in the midwest. September 11th rolled around my junior year of college and I was ready for war, I was ready for whatever it would take to defend my country from the evil arabs. In fact, if I’d had the opportunity to go, I probably would have. All I wanted was a cause to fight against… I was one of the strongest neo-conservatives you can imagine. I had a picture of George W on my dorm room wall, I’d hosted a huge BUSH election party the year prior.
But, you know, it’s amazing how one’s perspective can change. 4 months after Sept 11 I went to London to study abroad- this experience changed my life. I studied at a college that was not primarily British, it was an international university attended by people from 40 countries from around the world- awesome! Anyway, I found myself in an “American Presidents” class with one other American and the rest internationals.
Ok, as a sidenote… I don’t like to brag, but I think these details can factor into my story in an important way. I wasn’t one of those “smart kids”, I was one of those extremely smart, in the top .5% of standardized test takers, I-could-go-to college-basically-anywhere-in country-I-wanted type people. To top it off I’d had a great education in the States, was extremely steeped in conservative economics and world views etc.
So what happened in my classes, specifically in my American Presidents class? I was blown out of the water. I didn’t stand a chance. I left class in tears many days. Not because the other students were smarter than me- at least intelligence wise- but because these people had such and INCREDIBLE advantange on me of knowing things I had never been taught, of being aware of policies and presidents I had barely even heard of. These students knew my country better than I did, and it was HUMILIATING! I’d never been in a situation like that before, and I ate more than my fair share of humble pie.
The fact of the matter was, the perceptions of the world I had been fed in my safe little conservative upbringing were a bunch of lies. These people weren’t evil-loving pagans- they were my friends, they were intellectuals, they cared about people, they were just wonderful! And all of the highly intellectual and “highy moral” arguments about America and the “liberty” it so-called gives to other countries was just… made up. Those arguments didn’t hold water! I tried them in the real world and they didn’t work! I felt defeated, I felt like the background of everything I had believed was obliterated in a matter of weeks. It didn’t matter what a “great Christian, moral person” I was, it didn’t matter how smart I was. The fact was what I had been taught growing up (with a great American education!) was nothing compared to the truth my friends and classmates had been exposed to all of their lives.
Friends, it is not that people from other countries hate us (although they very well may hate our policies and rightfully so!), it’s that they have a completely different and often times better perspective on America than we do ourselves. It hurts to hear that, it’s embarassing to hear that, but unfortunately it’s just true. And the sooner we stop being so righteous about our country and as soon as we stop acting like we’re smarter than everyone else, the sooner we can realistically work towards peace.
I challenge those of you who have never been out of the country to do so if you have the means. If not, befriend someone from another country/culture and try to be openminded while learning from them. Non-Americans have a lot to teach us, we need to keep our attitudes in check as we are all God’s children and there should be some warning flags going up in our own heads when we realize the vast majority of the world (including our Catholic brothers and sisters abroad) are completely against our policies. They aren’t a bunch of stupid pagans, they have reasons for believing what they do. We have been indoctrinated with so many lies from the time we were kids.
Just my own :twocents:
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Steph you ought to blame our school system, not your conservative friends, for your lack of knowledge. Quite honestly as I look back at history, poli sci and social studies classes I am astonished at how LITTLE I learned. They seemed fixated on the Revolution and the Civil War and after that I learned absolutely nothing, other than a smattering about the Industrial Revolution.
I have learned a lot more about history from the History Channel, reading, and Great Courses on Tape than I ever learned in either high school or college where I had a history minor. All we get is what they want to teach us
Lisa N
I have learned a lot more about history from the History Channel, reading, and Great Courses on Tape than I ever learned in either high school or college where I had a history minor. All we get is what they want to teach us
Lisa N
L
Lance
Guest
Steph700 said:
Be honest, yes you do like to brag. You grades have nothing to do with you story. As for my part, since you detest America so much, you would be doing the US a favor to stay in Europe and become a citizen of what ever country you like. Just my two cents worth.
R
Richardols
Guest
Where does he say that he detests America?
God forbid that an American citizen criticizes our country, which is a model of perfection in every way possible.
M
Mac6yver
Guest
This attitude is a large part of why the rest of the world considers us arrogant.
F
Fiat
Guest
Steph:
I agree with LisaN here. Your conservative upbringing has nothing to do with your lack of knowledge regarding the world’s view of the U.S. I know a number of conservative folks who are well aware of anti-American sentiment and the reasons which exist for it.
Also, I have a difficult time believing that a conservative/liberal dichotomy is the linch pin in determining the world’s view of the United States. I have a feeling that certain terrorist groups would still refer to the U.S. as “The Great Satan,” whether a conservative or liberal is in power.
I agree with LisaN here. Your conservative upbringing has nothing to do with your lack of knowledge regarding the world’s view of the U.S. I know a number of conservative folks who are well aware of anti-American sentiment and the reasons which exist for it.
Also, I have a difficult time believing that a conservative/liberal dichotomy is the linch pin in determining the world’s view of the United States. I have a feeling that certain terrorist groups would still refer to the U.S. as “The Great Satan,” whether a conservative or liberal is in power.
B
Brendan
Guest
That’s kinda funny. I do the same thing to my Canadian in-laws. I leave them disillusioned with their socialistic system and their country’s overall disregard for defending the REAL rights of the helpless worldwide.
On the plus side, all my relatives in Ireland think the US is the greatest thing since sliced soda bread.
They’ve seen how the US stands up for not just pro life issues, but is willing to disregard ‘international opinion’ to do the right thing. And if we tweek France’s nose in the process, all the better
C
cestusdei
Guest
Jd,
Why did we avoid European wars? Because Washington in his wisdom knew the Europeans hated us colonials. I guess they still do. Maybe we should have let Hitler take over and kill millions more. It might have been so much more horrific that when we finally had to deal with him you would have stayed grateful for a lot longer. When it suits you then you want the US to intervene ie. Kosovo, but when it doesn’t then we are not supposed to “meddle”. You are just as selfish as any American in your pursuit of your own self-interest. Look at the French in Ivory Coast? Where are all the protests?
Why did we avoid European wars? Because Washington in his wisdom knew the Europeans hated us colonials. I guess they still do. Maybe we should have let Hitler take over and kill millions more. It might have been so much more horrific that when we finally had to deal with him you would have stayed grateful for a lot longer. When it suits you then you want the US to intervene ie. Kosovo, but when it doesn’t then we are not supposed to “meddle”. You are just as selfish as any American in your pursuit of your own self-interest. Look at the French in Ivory Coast? Where are all the protests?
C
cestusdei
Guest
Steph,
I have lived and studied abroad. Did you check what they told you or just accept it as fact? Did you look at the context of what they said? Did you compare it to the glories of their nations and national leadership of the past? In Japan during the month of August they discussed the Atomic bomb with my group. The US students fell all over themselves apologizing for WWII. I was the only one to stand up and just say “Pearl Harbor, if that hadn’t happened there would have been no Hiroshima. My uncle fought in the Pacific in the Navy”. That is all I said. It was all I had to say. It stopped the little hate American fest in its tracks.
A friend of mine studied in Geneva. I asked her what she learned. She said she learned “that America is the most horrible country in the world”. She had returned filled with hate. When I pointed out the errors of what they told her and what they convienently left out she got very defensive. Don’t just buy what they told you. You want to think? Then THINK. I assure you that we have less to be sorry about then most European nations.
I have lived and studied abroad. Did you check what they told you or just accept it as fact? Did you look at the context of what they said? Did you compare it to the glories of their nations and national leadership of the past? In Japan during the month of August they discussed the Atomic bomb with my group. The US students fell all over themselves apologizing for WWII. I was the only one to stand up and just say “Pearl Harbor, if that hadn’t happened there would have been no Hiroshima. My uncle fought in the Pacific in the Navy”. That is all I said. It was all I had to say. It stopped the little hate American fest in its tracks.
A friend of mine studied in Geneva. I asked her what she learned. She said she learned “that America is the most horrible country in the world”. She had returned filled with hate. When I pointed out the errors of what they told her and what they convienently left out she got very defensive. Don’t just buy what they told you. You want to think? Then THINK. I assure you that we have less to be sorry about then most European nations.
L
Lisa_N
Guest
Excellent point. Why Steph do you think that the teaching in Europe wasn’t slanted but anything you learned here IS slanted? Do you think European countries put the best face on their past transgressions?
I’d be really interested in any Japanese defending what the did to and in China. I had a college friend whose parents barely escaped the Japanese who came through towns killing everyone in sight. Her family to this day will not have Japanese goods in their home. They said the Japanese were barbaric.
And no, it certainly doesn’t justify any egregious actions on the part of the US. But it does point out that there are no angels in the World’s Play. Every country has it’s brutal past, even countries like Sweden that are now seemingly peaceful. They had quite the history of raiding Europe…
Lisa N
M
Maccabees
Guest
THe world hate’s me? I am not aware I was that famous.
Just love it when liberals go personal.
The world hated christ too so we are in good company. The world hated Reagan and America when we battling the cold war also.
Of course you guys hated us when we kicked your but during the Revolution. But you did’t seem to mind when we saved your but during world war 2 or you would be speaking German right now and worhsipping the Nazi leader right now. OF course your a Chamberlin type Euro cow towing to evil. Sorry you forgot about the wisdom of Churchill who looked to America to defeat evil in the world.
M
Maccabees
Guest
Well you forget that Europe kept telling us there was no problem. Chamberlin said Hitler was a nice guy the French told us he was no problem. Of corse you liberals would critisize america for getting involved in a war when we were not attacked at all. WE can’t win either way with you. We stepped up to plate in Europe we did’t have to fight the war on both fronts but we did. We could have a just cause to focus on Japan only but FDR recognized that the evil in the Pacific had philosophical ties with the Evil in Europe. They both hated America.
- Status