Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò gives his first extended interview since calling on the pope to resign

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . . .

For example, what kind of ministry can one have in hiding?

Archbishop Vigano is retired.

If half of these charges turn out to be true (many already have), despite being retired, Vigano’s ministry will be one of exposing corruption by a sexual deviant subculture who have hijacked the Church and abused their positions of authority.

People will be reading in Catholic seminaries and homes about Archbishop Vigano’s action and heroism for centuries.

 

[Hoosier-Daddy]

I would argue he has an incredible ministry and staying safe enables him to continue it.

 

[Trader]

Yes, we need to hear from Pope Francis, but the pope who so frequently speaks off the cuff has chosen to remain silent on this topic. Didn’t Watergate teach us all that the cover-up is always worse than the initial crime?

 

[Cathoholic]

NEWS CATHOLIC CHURCH, HOMOSEXUALITY Thu Jul 4, 2019 - 12:37 pm EST

Pope Francis ignored ‘terrifying dossier’ on top Vatican official’s sex abuse: Abp. Viganò​

Matthew Cullinan Hoffman

July 4, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) – Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò, a former papal ambassador who has accused Pope Francis of covering up sex abuse, has stated that the Vatican’s third most powerful prelate, Archbishop Peña Parra, was never given an “open and thorough investigation” for troubling accusations of sex abuse that date back decades. Archbishop Viganò said the high-ranking prelate was not investigated despite the existence of what he calls a “terrifying dossier” sent to Pope Francis that gives names and dates regarding his alleged misbehavior.

Archbishop Viganò told the Washington Post in an unpublished section of an interview that was recently obtained and published by LifeSiteNews that Pope Francis “essentially ignored” the dossier on Archbishop Peña Parra while appointing the Venezuelan to a top position in the Vatican.

Viganò states that one accusation, involving Peña Parra seducing two candidates for the seminary in 1990, was reported by the alleged victims’ parents to the police, and the veracity of the accusations were confirmed in writing to the Secretariat of State by both the rector of the major seminary and by seminary’s spiritual director. Viganò told the Post that “I have seen these documents with my own eyes,” and the documentation as well as that of other accusations should still be on file in the Holy See, “if it has not been destroyed.” . . .

. . . However, the accusations mentioned by Archbishop Viganò are far more serious, including sexual predation against seminarians, adultery, and even a deadly sex game. . . .

. . . However, according to Archbishop Viganò, the Vatican for decades has been in possession of much more damning accusations against Peña Parra, information which has never been revealed publicly. Viganò mentions a “terrifying dossier” sent to Francis by a group of faithful Catholics from Peña Parra’s home diocese of Maracaibo in Venezuela, led by one “Dr. Enrique W. Lagunillas Machado.” . . .

. . . Viganò says that the accusations made in the letter have been known by the Vatican’s Secretariat of State since 2002 . . .

. . . In addition, Viganò claims that a journalist from Maracaibo, Gastón Guisandes López, made “serious accusations” implicating Peña Parra and other priests of the diocese in the sex abuse of minors . . .

Pope Francis ignored ‘terrifying dossier’ on top Vatican official’s sex abuse: Abp. Viganò - LifeSite

 

[Cathoholic]

Now is the chance for those in the Vatican to totally discredit archbishop Vigano.

After all. Archbishop Vigano mentions
police reports about some of these “goings on”.

It should be easy enough for the Vatican to call upon the police departments mentioned and have those police departments just deny Vigano’s claims.

Ask some of the other people too.

Archbishop Vigano named enough names to check on many of these things. That should be easy enough too.

All these people will deny these claims, and whaaa laah! Instant discrediting.

Or maybe . . . ? . . . .

 

[KMG]

If Vigano could have been discredited, it would have happened ages ago.

On the contrary, slowly but surely more evidence emerges to corroborate his testimony.

What is not so credible is the chorus of “we had no idea about Uncle Ted”…

 

[Cathoholic]

KMG . . . .

If Vigano could have been discredited, it would have happened ages ago.

Right.

This is exactly WHY Vigano’s claims will NOT be discredited.

If there was a public call from the Vatican to reveal such information, and they DID, that would further BOLSTER Archbishop Vigano’s claims.

It has been a couple of weeks since these claims were made and there has been a lot of silence.

Very disappointing.

I am also disappointed in the press. (LifeSiteNews and The Washington Post are exempt from my criticism in this case. Both have seemed willing to investigate and report here).

After all. Pope Francis urged them on to do their own investigating.

 

[KMG]

One of the worst consequences of the Uncle Ted years = the untold number of lost vocations.

I remember those days well, having been close to the scene in New Jersey.

Men were rejected/kicked out of formation for being too “rigid” (a popular word back then). Any interest in the traditional liturgy was a death sentence for your vocation.

“Uncle Ted” was insufferable: everyone knew about his favourites and the beach house. His favourites openly made fun of men in formation who were considered overly pious/traditional. They were mocked.

Meanwhile, the charisma of Uncle Ted carried the day. He could do no wrong.

 

[Cathoholic]

KMG . . .

One of the worst consequences of the Uncle Ted years = the untold number of lost vocations.

True enough KMG.

.

Mr. McCarrick should be in a Vatican jail. And be regularly interrogated there.

And the metastasis of this
objectively disordered behavior
rooted out within the clerical state.

And transparency should be adhered to while doing this (unless it harms the investigation).

 

[pnewton]

If Vigano could have been discredited, it would have happened ages ago.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is hard to discredit someone in hiding. I am sure that all new evidence from LSN is quite convincing, for those already convinced, that all he has slandered Pope Francis with is true. I prefer patience and charity.

 

[KMG]

Slander? Hardly.

 

[Toledo]

Archbishop Carlo Maria Viganò gives his first extended interview since calling on the pope to resign Catholic News

One of the worst consequences of the Uncle Ted years = the untold number of lost vocations. I remember those days well, having been close to the scene in New Jersey. Men were rejected/kicked out of formation for being too “rigid” (a popular word back then). Any interest in the traditional liturgy was a death sentence for your vocation. “Uncle Ted” was insufferable: everyone knew about his favourites and the beach house. His favourites openly made fun of men in formation who were considered ov…

In my 20’s (whole process from age 24-25, 1994-1995 or a year later), I was discerning whether God was calling me to be a priest. I went to the diocesan meetings, met with priests, was psychologically tested, etc. and eventually filled out the formal application. I had a bachelor’s degree in engineering, and had just finished paying off my car (and college).

When the final decision was made by the diocese, I received a call from the vocations director. He said that the diocese with great trepidation was going to permit me to enter pre-seminary. He said the diocese thought I was too rigid (his exact word) as that I wanted to live (and they presume) preach exactly what was written in the CCC and wouldn’t be flexible enough. He said that he didn’t think I had enough life experience (ie that I was a virgin and lived with my parents when my money was low) and that I didn’t have a good enough multi-cultural background.

Basically I was told that they were doing me a big favor and they would be watching me very closely as they were very suspicious. I felt no joy and was apprehensive and felt no support from the Church I wanted to serve.

Maybe my faith wasn’t deep enough and I didn’t enter the pre-seminary then. Perhaps I had a true vocation, perhaps I didn’t, but I felt scared and perhaps even ashamed of how I was trying to live my faith. I didn’t know why I wasn’t a good candidate - virgin, never did drugs or smoked, rarely drank, taught RE at my parish, didn’t look at pornography, was straight yet thought I could give live a celibate life without a wife and family. I wanted to please God…but now was told I was too rigid and not a good candidate.

Oddly enough, this same vocations director a decade later was found to be a major thief and was stealing from his parish/the diocese (forget which) to fund a very serious gambling problem here in Illinois (illegal gambling in this state). Previously this priest had been pointed out to me as a great example of a modern priest as he liked to go out and play volleyball and have a drink with others. I don’t remember holiness being described at all. The bishop also had an issue with shuffling predator priests around (found out later).

Both the bishop and this particular diocesan vocations priest said they were sorry and asked for Christian compassion as they addressed their flaws. I would personally have appreciated a little love as I thought I might have had a chance to serve God and not been made to feel about 1" tall.

 

[KMG]

The 80s in particular were a horror show in US seminaries.

 

[Cathoholic]

pnewton . . .

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. It is hard to discredit someone in hiding. I am sure that all new evidence from LSN is quite convincing . . .

Forget about LSN.

Look at the Washington Post. That is in this thread too.

Look at the charges made by Archbishop Vigano.

Many of them are easy to affirm or prove false. All a media outlet (or the Vatican) has to do is go to the primary sources.

Like going to the police as a primary source that I have already mentioned (“Officer. Is there any record of such reports being made by this person at such and such a time?”)

Did you read the thread?
Did you read the articles?

What do you think is “charitable” (“charity”) about letting children be molested while others did or do nothing in silence?

This is EXACTLY the sort of thing the Holy Father has discussed when he said we (the bishops) failed the little ones.

It is hard to discredit someone in hiding.

No it’s not. (At least in this case.)

Just trot out the witnesses Archbishop Vigano discusses and check the documentation.

 

[Cathoholic]

Toledo . . . .

. . . I received a call from the vocations director. He said that the diocese with great trepidation was going to permit me to enter pre-seminary. He said the diocese thought I was too rigid (his exact word) as that I wanted to live (and they presume) preach exactly what was written in the CCC and wouldn’t be flexible enough. He said that he didn’t think I had enough life experience (ie that I was a virgin and lived with my parents when my money was low) and that I didn’t have a good enough multi-cultural background. . . .

. . . I didn’t know why I wasn’t a good candidate - virgin, never did drugs or smoked, rarely drank, taught RE at my parish, didn’t look at pornography, was straight yet thought I could give live a celibate life without a wife and family. I wanted to please God…but now was told I was too rigid and not a good candidate. . . .

Wow!

Thanks for sharing.

I have heard MANY stories that roughly parallel yours.

This MUST stop.

 

[KMG]

Those who didn’t live through it don’t know just how insidious it all was. The vocations crisis was manufactured. Show an interest in Latin? Gone. Be seen with a rosary by the wrong person? Gone. (Homosexuality was okay though, if one were reasonably discreet). Some bishops were known to be refuges from the insanity. Other bishops were known to be the root of the problem. McCarrick was in the latter category.

 

[Cathoholic]

KMG . . . .

The vocations crisis was manufactured.

I know three guys from one diocese who were all rejected by their diocese (an example here of the manufacturing that you mentioned KMG).

They all went to other diocesan “homes” with a better reputation.

All three of them are now fine ordained ministerial Catholic priests.

 

[billy15]

Thank you for sharing this, Toledo. There are only 6 dioceses in Illinois, so it was pretty easy for me to figure out what diocese you were speaking of. I live there now, and while things are better. We really could’ve used men like you in the priesthood here, so it breaks my heart that the bishop turned you away like this. Please know of my prayers.

I remember when I moved to this diocese from the Archdiocese of Chicago, my former pastor told me to “watch out” because of how “wacky” the diocese had become over the years. For the record, the former vocations director you speak of is still serving in the diocese, and is a “priest in residence” at a fairly large, suburban parish. Fortunately, being two bishops removed from the bishop you experienced in the 90’s has helped matters greatly.

We just got a new vocations director a few months ago. He’s younger, and I recently went to a Mass he celebrated. The Mass intention was for all the intentions of our Lady, as she knows what’s best for the Church. I was deeply moved by this, and it was the first time I had ever heard of such a Mass intention. Things are hopefully looking up here.

 

[pnewton]

Did you read the thread?
Did you read the articles?

yes

What do you think is “charitable” (“charity”) about letting children be molested while others did or do nothing in silence?

Nothing, and you know that was not what I meant or said.

The whole subject of AB Vigano is filled with false logic, shotgun evidence and switching of topics. Speaking for me alone, I do not take seriously the reasoning of such approaches. The initial accusations against the Holy Father about him lying is the only accusation I deem uncharitable. Exposing anyone who has molested children is not only the right thing to do, but long overdue.

Anyone, from bishop to sanitation worker, who knew of a child who was abused had the duty, at that time, to report that situation to the civil authorities.

 

[Cathoholic]

Cathoholic . . .

Did you read the thread?
Did you read the articles?

pnewton . . .

yes

.

Then WHY bring up LSN?

The same type of issues were reported in the Washington Post article
which was also cited.
As a matter of fact, that is the story my OP article was based on.

Forget about LSN, and deal with the issues.
At least that is my suggestion.

.

pnewton . . .

Exposing anyone who has molested children is not only the right thing to do, but long overdue.

Agreed.

Now what about these objectively disordered men, going after adult seminarians?

Do you think THAT is OK?