Archbishop Chaput: Denying Biden Communion is ‘Pastoral’ Not ‘Political’

  • Thread starter Thread starter JimG
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Chaput has always kind of been a voice for conservative politics.
 
Feanor2 said:
Chaput has always kind of been a voice for conservative politics.
Click to expand...
Hes definitely long been a favorite of conservatives but I don’t know if I’d call him a voice for conservative politics.
 
StudentMI said:
48.png
Feanor2:
Chaput has always kind of been a voice for conservative politics.
Click to expand...
Hes definitely long been a favorite of conservatives but I don’t know if I’d call him a voice for conservative politics.
Click to expand...
I have found that if there is a side to take on an issue he goes right. He speaks up for GOP policy. I don’t think i’ve ever heard him speak on immigration or the environment for example.

There are a few prelates I would place on the right. One or two I would even put more towards the fringe.
 
Mmm. Rather than using the term ‘right’ (with its political undertones) might I suggest the term “Orthodox” as in compliance with Catholic teachings?

I do not think that a prelate is conservative in wishing to uphold Catholic teachings. I do not think that a prelate is liberal or left if he does not uphold the teachings; I think the term ‘heterodox’ is more accurate.

Unfortunately because of the decades’ long use of ambiguity in terminology and a propensity for hierarchy and laity to use political terms, it seems that the clear and distinct terminology is frowned upon.

A person who wishes to follow ALL the teachings is then dubbed ‘conservative’ and considered politically right, while a person who does not wish to follow all the teachings is ‘thinking for himself’, ‘meeting people where they are’, not slaves to rigidity, having a more nuanced view than ‘rules’, etc.

It all comes down though to making excuses to NOT follow all the teachings.
 
stpurl said:
Rather than using the term ‘right’ (with its political undertones) might I suggest the term “Orthodox” as in compliance with Catholic teachings?

I do not think that a prelate is conservative in wishing to uphold Catholic teachings. I do not think that a prelate is liberal or left if he does not uphold the teachings; I think the term ‘heterodox’ is more accurate.
Click to expand...
I do not think it would be correct to call Chaput “heterodox.”

“Right” otoh places the comment in a political context instead of judging the religious implications of his opinions, something that would be presumptuous.
 
From the article:

"“To his credit,” Archbishop Chaput noted, Biden “has championed many causes and issues that do serve the common good. However, many of his actions and words have also supported or smoothed the way for grave moral evils in our public life that have resulted in the destruction of millions of innocent lives.”

“Mr. Biden has said that he will continue to advance those same policies as president, and thus should not receive Holy Communion. His stated intention requires a strong and consistent response from Church leaders and faithful.”"
 
I take it you didn’t read the “First Things” article which the NC Register draws from? He draws from the CDF and the Catechism to make theological arguments. He even goes on to say:
This is not a “political” matter, and those who would describe it as such are either ignorant or willfully confusing the issue.
Click to expand...
So, from a theological perspective, is what he wrote wrong? What, theologically, do you disagree with?
 
What would St. Paul have to say about Joe Biden being a proponent of abortion for 40 years?
 
St Paul was a good and faithful Jewish male. That meant he followed all the Jewish teachings . . .which included a condemnation of abortion.

Furthermore the earliest teachings of Christianity as found in the Didache, attributed to the apostles, written in the early years of Christianity, condemn abortion.

Do you truly think that just because we do not find, in red letters in a leatherette Bible in the gospels, Jesus saying, “And I say unto you that abortion is wrong’ that the condemnation of abortion was never discussed by Jesus?

Scripture itself states that Jesus spoke ‘much more than what was found in ‘this book’ (one of the gospels). Scripture of course is not limited to the New Testament. And Christian teaching is not simply limited to the Scriptures, but to Sacred Tradition and to the Magesterium.

ALL three condemn abortion.

Therefore God, who gave us Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and the Church, condemns it as well.
 
KMC said:
So, from a theological perspective, is what he wrote wrong? What, theologically, do you disagree with?
Click to expand...
I disagree with the extent that Archbishop Chaput has inserted himself in all sorts of political issues; always from a conservative viewpoint. This is not about theology – it is on prelates being involved in politics.
 
I cant imagine biden attending mass 😆 only if theres a camera following him
 
This is not a “political” matter, and those who would describe it as such are either ignorant or willfully confusing the issue.
Click to expand...
By stating it publicly, Abp. Chaput has made it a political matter, or at least ensured it would be politicized. If he didn’t want the issue politicized, then he should have corrected Mr. Biden privately.

Does he even have jurisdiction over Mr. Biden other than if he comes forward for communion in his diocese? I believe Mr. Biden’s own bishop has said he wouldn’t deny him communion.
 
OraLabora said:
This is not a “political” matter, and those who would describe it as such are either ignorant or willfully confusing the issue.
Click to expand...
But Abp Chaput’s article is on the heels of Card. Gregory’s comment:


Gregory made it public…which by your apparent definition, makes him the one who made it political. Chaput has a moral responsibility (as do all Catholics for that matter) to call out scandal in the public arena. Gregory KNOWS Biden’s current and active positions on abortion and SSM, yet seems to be a willing accomplice in sin if he gives Biden communion.

The Catechism is quite clear in this matter:
2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged.
Click to expand...
Gregory is putting Biden’s soul in further risk, and the souls of others who support abortion rights and SSM (by implying they too can receive the Eucharist). It is Chaput who is being a witness to the truth…and if people care about Biden’s soul, they should be thanking Chaput for speaking up.
Click to expand...
 
So you are comfortable stating St. Paul might have been a proponent for abortion but we will never know because he never specified it?
 
TepeyacTraveler said:
So you are comfortable stating St. Paul might have been a proponent for abortion but we will never know because he never specified it?
Click to expand...
I will reiterate.
We will never know since Paul never wrote about it explicitly in his epistles.
 
OraLabora said:
Does he even have jurisdiction over Mr. Biden other than if he comes forward for communion in his diocese? I believe Mr. Biden’s own bishop has said he wouldn’t deny him communion.
Click to expand...
Mr Biden’s own bishop is Malooly of Wilmington, but will be cardinal Gregory when he moves to Washington. These are the ones who can treat this as a pastoral issue.

The time for Chaput to intervene in this would have been when he was abp in the archdiocese next to Wilmington. He may have done it for all I know, as it would have been done quietly if it was pastoral.

Maybe we could get a real controversy going, like when the bishop of Rome tried to tell the clergy in Avignon what to do?
 
Why is it bad that it’s political? As the Catechism notes:
2246 It is a part of the Church’s mission "to pass moral judgments even in matters related to politics, whenever the fundamental rights of man or the salvation of souls requires it.
Click to expand...
Fundamental rights and the salvation of souls are both at issue here.

Let’s not forget, Caesar is not exempt to giving to God what is God’s. And when a Catholic leader of all things provides a direct, explicit, consistent, and public advocacy of a very serious violation of the Commandments which directly and always diminishes the common good and undermines public morality, it makes sense for prelates who actually care to speak out and make use of all the means available to them to counter that scandal.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top