Archbishop Chaput sees election days as ‘tough times’ for Catholics

[Rence]

No, they don’t like the fact that they are being required by the federal government to buy a product which violates their conscience.

And why should insurance companies–or the HHS–decide on healthcare decisions anyway? Many people would benefit from being able to buy a catastrophic policy only, paying cash for routine medical costs. But it’s hard to find such a policy because of all the federal regulations which restrict what can be offered.

Neither the insurance companies, nor the HHS, is deciding on healthcare decisions by providing benefits. The employee actually decides on the healthcare benefits they will utilize.

And I certainly don’t blame the government from trying to make ABCs more available because it’s cheaper to pay for everyone’s birth control as opposed to paying for quite a bit of the populations kids, particularly those who draw from medicaid to pay for them. The healthcare mandate not only offers ABCs to everyone, but also requires everyone to participate in the system, thereby putting back into the pot that everyone will eventually use.

 

[ProVobis]

No, they don’t like the fact that they are being required by the federal government to buy a product which violates their conscience.

And why should insurance companies–or the HHS–decide on healthcare decisions anyway? Many people would benefit from being able to buy a catastrophic policy only, paying cash for routine medical costs. But it’s hard to find such a policy because of all the federal regulations which restrict what can be offered.

That would be ideal. Or at least have a high deductible. The “routine” medical visits because of all the administrative red tape are very costly, which of course, adds to the cost.

 

[JaMc]

Freedom to push religion on other people?

So, if I go to a Jewish kosher butcher, demand that he sell me a ham, and he refuses, he’s “pushing his religion” on me?

 

[JimG]

That would be ideal. Or at least have a high deductible. The “routine” medical visits because of all the administrative red tape are very costly, which of course, adds to the cost.

Yes, the health insurance bureaucracy has indeed taken over the field of medicine. Now the insurance companies are starting to buy up and employ doctors and clinics, so the docs really are employed by them. I read a lot of Doug Farrago’s blog, formerly the Placebo Journal, now the Authentic Medicine Gazette. In a recent issue he linked to this doctor’s write up of his own experience with his own health insuror:

getbetterhealth.com/the-joys-of-health-insurance-bureaucracy/2012.10.15

 

[JMJSHJ]

Neither the insurance companies, nor the HHS, is deciding on healthcare decisions by providing benefits. The employee actually decides on the healthcare benefits they will utilize.

And I certainly don’t blame the government from trying to make ABCs more available because it’s cheaper to pay for everyone’s birth control as opposed to paying for quite a bit of the populations kids, particularly those who draw from medicaid to pay for them. The healthcare mandate not only offers ABCs to everyone, but also requires everyone to participate in the system, thereby putting back into the pot that everyone will eventually use.

I certainly blame the government for trying to force Catholic institutions to provide for ABC’s as part of the healthcare and so should any sincere Catholic. You like to quote the USCCB with regard to voting for Obama by somehow suggesting that its permitted but then when a large number of those same Bishops are suing the Government because of this, it clearly shows that you only agree with the USCCB when it suits you.

How very Cafeteria Catholic you are.

 

[JMJSHJ]

So, if I go to a Jewish kosher butcher, demand that he sell me a ham, and he refuses, he’s “pushing his religion” on me?

Or if I work for a Jewish hospital and they don’t provide ham in the cafeteria, they are depriving me of my right to have ham!

 

[Tigg]

----But the “root of the crisis” is found in the Catholic Church, because the "Protestant reformation grew out of dismay at the failure of Church prelates to live out their faith, creating an intolerable gap between Christian preaching and practice.”

That’s an interesting assessment.

It’s an accurate one which he’s hit upon before in the '08 election:

“November showed us that 40 years of American Catholic complacency and poor formation are bearing exactly the fruit we should have expected. Or to put it more discreetly, the November elections confirmed a trend, rather than created a new moment, in American culture.”

……too many Catholics just don’t really care. That’s the truth of it. If they cared, our political environment would be different. If 65 million Catholics really cared about their faith and cared about what it teaches, neither political party could ignore what we believe about justice for the poor, or the homeless, or immigrants, or the unborn child. If 65 million American Catholics really understood their faith, we wouldn’t need to waste each other’s time arguing about whether the legalized killing of an unborn child is somehow ‘balanced out’ or excused by three other good social policies.”

hotair.com/archives/2009/03/22/chaput-scolds-american-catholics-and-the-church/

 

[Tigg]

Here’s an opinion I can agree with:

…… I believe that the bishops err when they transfer responsibility for the fulfillment of those concepts from the venue of the individual, the family, and small organizations controlled by individuals (all with the oversight of the Church), into the hands of a government that is not prepared to be the moral arbiter of all things human, which healthcare nearly encompasses.

And my reading of the CCC backs up that view. Nowhere does the Church remove itself or the family from the responsibility of these things, and nowhere does the CCC give that responsibility into the hands of the civil authorities

You don’t need to be a theologian to realize that a government that legalizes abortion, contraception, and fosters all sort of other immoral practices is not prepared to legislate and rule the morally delicate territory of healthcare. And in such an environment the bishop’s embrace of government mandated healthcare is mind-boggling. Indeed it goes beyond mind-boggling. It’s irrational.

So, why then are the bishops so anxious for the government to do such a thing? I think it’s because they have inadvertently given up their God given responsibility to be moral leaders. They see themselves as impotent and unable to persuade their sheep to follow them. Their laxness in publicly excommunicating various politicians like Nancy Pelosi is an example of their avoidance of conflict, hoping to foster respect by tolerating evil. They believe that government coercion will work better than Christ’s love as exampled in the Church…….

The solution is for the bishop’s to humbly re-embrace their leadership role as society’s moral leaders and actively and publicly guide the work of solidarity and the distribution of goods. How should that be done? Certainly not through government taxation and coercion, which violates the principles of true charity and marginalizes an individual’s accountability to live out the Golden Rule. But rather the bishops should lobby vigorously for laws that encourage individual responsibility, and that facilitate individual generosity and accountability. And then the bishops need to motivate the laity to live out the beauty of Christ’s teachings to care for those in need around us.

crossingnineveh.blogspot.com/2012/02/in-bishops-own-words.html

 

[JimG]

Here’s an opinion I can agree with:

“You don’t need to be a theologian to realize that a government that legalizes abortion, contraception, and fosters all sort of other immoral practices is not prepared to legislate and rule the morally delicate territory of healthcare”.
Amen, brother! Thanks for this quote and link!

 

[manofart]

Nothing new about tough times for the Catholic Church. It was, is and will be to the end of the times; but I believe when the times get tough or tougher, the tough in us gets going. Victory is always at hand.
Viva Cristo Rey

 

[irishpatrick]

As with ancient Rome, the USA has now become a huge mission field. The vast majority of all Christians simply ignore their faith and often have no clue what their own church teaches.

How many people go to Mass or Church every week and on Holy Days?

How many Catholics go to confession?

How many Catholics abort their unborn?

How many Catholics fornicate and live with another person outside marriage?

How many Catholics use contraception?

The list goes on and one…

If all Christians truly practiced their faith, everything else would fall into place. Our politicians reflect the culture, not the other way.

It takes converting people one person at a time (just like in ancient Rome) and not by arguing and debating–we must simply learn how to present the truth, and then trust in the Holy Spirit to do His work. The apostles were sent out in many directions and they went house to house, and person to person, and they spoke the truth and if people rejected the truth, they would then shake the dust off their sandals and move on.

We are all being call to SAINTHOOD through our work to help convert souls for Christ!

There would be no battles about life, or marriage, or Christmas trees, or any of those other hot button issues, IF Christians actually walked like Christians.

 

[Tigg]

If all Christians truly practiced their faith, everything else would fall into place. Our politicians reflect the culture, not the other way.

We are all being call to SAINTHOOD through our work to help convert souls for Christ!

There would be no battles about life, or marriage, or Christmas trees, or any of those other hot button issues, IF Christians actually walked like Christians.

Absolutely and the Catholic blogs are full of posts like this…want to change this nation? Become a saint! But now, we’ve entered a period of persecution and there will be much suffering ahead. Submitting to our penance is in order so that those who still do not see, might yet come into the mercy of God. One thing for certain - things are so bad now that only the Lord can fix them.

 

[irishpatrick]

Absolutely and the Catholic blogs are full of posts like this…want to change this nation? Become a saint! But now, we’ve entered a period of persecution and there will be much suffering ahead. Submitting to our penance is in order so that those who still do not see, might yet come into the mercy of God. One thing for certain - things are so bad now that only the Lord can fix them.

Yes, yet I believe the Lord will fix them through people who are destined to be Saints. Each faithful Catholic must search their hearts for the call our Lord is making.

Do not forget, troubled times are nothing new to the world, or to the Church. Just 67 years ago the worst war in history ended, and I feel certain a great many people thought they were living in the last days during WWII…yet here we are 67 years later and history is repeating itself.

Humans have very short memories. Even going back to the American Revolution, which is just a scant 236 years ago, it seems the citizens of this blessed nation cannot even retain the roots of their own country–and the American Revotion took place just 3 1/2 to 4 average lifespans ago.

People who do not know their past, are doomed to repeat it and there is a lot of “repeating the mistakes and sins of history” going on, with a few new ones added in for good measure.

“The most effective way to destroy people is to deny and obliterate their own understanding of their history.” [George Orwell]