Archbishop Chaput sees 'subtle hopelessness' in message of Synod working document [CC]
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FollowChrist34
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Spot on.
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7_Sorrows
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I have much admiration for Archbishop Chaput.
He is definitely led by the Holy Spirit. God bless him.
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JimG
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“This leads to a spirit of compromise with certain sinful patterns of life and the reduction of Christian truths about marriage and sexuality to a set of beautiful ideals— which then leads to surrendering the redemptive mission of the Church.”
Archbishop Chaput
Indeed, the temptation is to surrender to the culture, to surrender to the sexual revolution. The Church must not surrender.
Archbishop Chaput
Indeed, the temptation is to surrender to the culture, to surrender to the sexual revolution. The Church must not surrender.
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Cider
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Similar to what many here have been posting.
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franklinstower
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Anyone have a link to the working document in question?
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AnnArbor
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I see hope!
Like this:
"In western countries, the empowerment of women requires a rethinking of the duties of the spouses in their reciprocity and common responsibility towards family life. In developing countries, the exploitation of women and the violence done to their bodies and the tiring tasks imposed on them, even during pregnancy, are oftentimes compounded by abortion and forced sterilization, not to mention the extreme negative consequences of practices connected with procreation (for example, a womb “for rent” or the marketing of embryonic gametes). In advanced countries, the desire for a child “at all costs” has not resulted in happier and stronger family relationships, but, in many cases, has actually exacerbated the inequality between women and men. Sterility in a woman, according to a prejudice in different cultures, is a condition which brings social discrimination.
A contributing factor in acknowledging the determining role of women in society could be a greater appreciation of their responsibility in the Church, namely, their involvement in the decision-making process, their participation — not simply in a formal way — in the governing of some institutions; and their involvement in the formation of ordained ministers."
Like this:
"In western countries, the empowerment of women requires a rethinking of the duties of the spouses in their reciprocity and common responsibility towards family life. In developing countries, the exploitation of women and the violence done to their bodies and the tiring tasks imposed on them, even during pregnancy, are oftentimes compounded by abortion and forced sterilization, not to mention the extreme negative consequences of practices connected with procreation (for example, a womb “for rent” or the marketing of embryonic gametes). In advanced countries, the desire for a child “at all costs” has not resulted in happier and stronger family relationships, but, in many cases, has actually exacerbated the inequality between women and men. Sterility in a woman, according to a prejudice in different cultures, is a condition which brings social discrimination.
A contributing factor in acknowledging the determining role of women in society could be a greater appreciation of their responsibility in the Church, namely, their involvement in the decision-making process, their participation — not simply in a formal way — in the governing of some institutions; and their involvement in the formation of ordained ministers."
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franklinstower
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This is the reason I requested the document because I am not buying it. I am quite certain that this hopeless perception is due to the inherent limitations within certain members of the body of Christ. We all have these limitations but this Pope tends to “see” where the more legalistically inclined cannot “see” and vice versa.
I am not saying anyone is wrong here-- its just that we all seem to only see a piece of it all. At certain times in history and within certain people, or groups of people, different approaches will be more effective for bringing* the most people to salvation. * I think the Pope is dead on for this generation and this time period.
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Usige
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From one of the source articles:
We can only pray that issues in marriage are one small part of the synod and that the Church finds ways to uphold those who are faithful to the teachings, while helping others achieve the ideal rather than simply accepting that some will never be able to achieve the ideal.
He also said that there needs to be a balance between not pushing people away, but still proclaiming the truth.
We can only pray that issues in marriage are one small part of the synod and that the Church finds ways to uphold those who are faithful to the teachings, while helping others achieve the ideal rather than simply accepting that some will never be able to achieve the ideal.
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Usige
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One place where some clerics see submission is for example in section 57, paragraph 2:
Many see this as something akin to giving a kid a trophy for participation. In otherwords good job for trying. For instance, if a couple is living together, then give them friendly praise for not sleeping around. At least they are being committed to sexual fidelity, right? The basic feeling is that you encourage them for what they do right and hope that blossoms into what God intends, without trying to get them to rectify the situation directly. Many feel this is setting the bar of expectations too low and hoping things get better is not the right path.
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franklinstower
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I use this approach with people as my main approach. It works for a large segment of the population. If you accept and give praise for what is good in these situations while helping to bring them closer to Christ you can get them to sin less in the future. This approach absolutely works for some people-- *it is the only approach that works for some people.
*
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Thomas_White
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I am also certain this is true and do not believe that either genuine spirituality or salvation can be attained solely from reading any document. It is not that easy. Humans must have the courage to make moral choices in a temporal world of constant change.
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sarah_j
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I just came across this article on another thread >
He particularly reflected on paragraphs 7-10 of the working document, which discussed anthropological changes, cultural and social contradictions, and the weaknesses and strengths of the family.
While the archbishop praised these sections’ description of the condition of contemporary families, he worried that “overall, the text engenders a subtle hopelessness.”
“This leads to a spirit of compromise with certain sinful patterns of life and the reduction of Christian truths about marriage and sexuality to a set of beautiful ideals - which then leads to surrendering the redemptive mission of the Church,” he said. “The work of this synod needs to show much more confidence in the Word of God, the transformative power of grace, and the ability of people to actually live what the Church believes. And it should honor the heroism of abandoned spouses who remain faithful to their vows and the teaching of the Church.”
Archbishop Chaput cited the French writer George Bernanos’ definition of hope: “despair, overcome.”
“We have no reason to despair. We have every reason to hope. Pope Francis saw this himself in Philadelphia. Nearly 900,000 people crowded the streets for the papal Mass that closed the World Meeting of Families,” he added.
People attended the World Meeting of Families both because they love the Pope and because they believe in marriage and the family, he said. They were “hungry to be fed by real food from the Vicar of Jesus Christ.”
Archbishop Chaput made several recommendations to the synod.
"We need to call people to perseverance in grace and to trust in the greatness God intended for them - not confirm them in their errors.
Marriage embodies Christian hope – hope made flesh and sealed permanently in the love of a man and a woman,” he said.
“This synod needs to preach that truth more clearly with the radical passion of the Cross and Resurrection.”
davidgibson.religionnews.com/2015/10/07/archbishop-charles-chaput-synod-document-engenders-a-subtle-hopelessness/
catholicnewsagency.com/news/archbishop-chaput-we-need-more-accurate-translations-of-synod-docs-28503/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+catholicnewsagency%2Fdailynews+%28CNA+Daily+News%29&utm_term=daily+news
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Rau
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But how do you imagine it will work for the “remarried”? How do you define “success”?
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franklinstower
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That is far to narrow a question to cover all of the many and varied circumstances conceivable. Clearly you have an opinion, why don’t you state it?
Also isn’t that what the synod is putting considerable time and energy into discussing? I am very interested in being open to what they discover and discern with the help of the Holy Spirit.
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franklinstower
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Exactly-- and if you spend the time to help them grow closer to Christ they will listen to Him and His words. Depending on how far away from God a person is, it could be quite some time before they stop certain kinds of sin,*** before they can,*** but it does happen. For many it cannot happen without ***certain knowledge ***of Christs love for them and the healing that Christ brings. They need a personal relationship with someone who knows Christ in their corner all along the way demonstrating Gods love.
Agreed.
The pope keeps talking about making people feel more welcome and using words that are less harsh; the church is losing followers and new joiners because the church feels overly judgmental to many.
There is nothing wrong with having a more gentle approach–then people feel welcome and comfortable, and they will* listen* to you.
.
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Rau
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Thinking about the persons who have remarried (without annulment), it is self-evident that being “welcoming” requires more than criticism and sanction for past and ongoing acts.
Beyond that, I don’t know how your strategy is to be applied in this case, or what end you would hope to achieve - which is why I asked you how you anticipate your approach could work in that situation. And surely the fact that the question is narrow aids in answering it?
So yes, let’s wait and see what the synod comes up with.
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Vouthon
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Others see it as a pragmatic, realistic approach to serving the truth of the Gospel in this era.
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dans0622
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Hello,
In his actual address, he mentioned paragraphs 7-10. Since the phrase used was “subtle hopelessness” I wouldn’t be surprised if other people read those paragraphs and didn’t detect the same thing. Personally, I can see what he means.
Edit: here is his address: catholicphilly.com/2015/10/think-tank/homilies-speeches/marriage-as-a-witness-to-hope/
Dan
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clem456
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While finding the good in all people and all situations, we must not give the impression that what is not good, is good. What is not good is not good.
As a pastoral approach, it is important to encourage those living in less than full sacramental situations to pursue the good that God has called them to.
It is also important to recognize that many (most) human beings have a predisposition to self-justify their own actions, lifestyles, passions, beliefs. In other words, an approach that gives consolation where it is not due is not a loving approach. It is simply lying to those who need to hear truth. Lying to people is not loving.
Conversion requires facing reality. It’s unavoidable. While there is much good involved in some of these situations where people work and sacrifice for one another, we are always called to be more.
It is indeed hopeless to believe that human beings cannot be more than their current selves, or that we should store up our barns and be satisfied because we have “some good” in the way we live. It is hopeless to merely encourage people to stay where they are as their ultimate good. This applies to everyone always, not just to those living “irregular” lifestyles.
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