Archbishop Dolan blasts anti-Catholicism of New York Times [CWN]

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How I miss the William F. Buckleys of the world and how I loath the Palins, Limbaughs, and Becks…The guys like Victor Davis Hanson and George Will are not the loud GOP voices. It’s the screamers.
You picked two good ones in Hanson and Will. Both sound, smart, and honest conservatives, but Will is probably considered too elitist by the “real Americans” who rely on Limbaugh and Beck to do their thinking for them, and who diminish Hanson, if they even know who he is, as just a historian.
 
Do you know that I had the priviledge to be in Dr. Hanson’s Ancient Greece course at California State University Fresno back in the 90’s? I was top of his class. Myself and another guy were the only A’s in the class out of 35 students. He’s a killer professor, I have to tell ya. Brilliant doesn’t begin. He is the most intelligent human being I’ve personally ever met and I felt like I was in the presence of real exceptional brilliance in his presence. Awesome guy.

But it blew me away how he was a Bill Clinton moderate when I was in his class, somewhat cynical about military folks and U.S. intervention/foreign policies, and a touch liberal on certain issues and then in the new millenium he became a neo-con, pro nation-building, 100% Bush acolyte, and completely a conservative of the very very far right.

I read his pro-nation-building agenda that he preaches bigtime now and it’s a 180 from what he taught us at Fresno State about the dangers of doing what Athens did when it became a colonizing dominator in the Mediterranean with the Delian League after the Persian Wars, etc. He talked about how we were going down the same road as Athens, on a collision course, etc.

Now he is very anti public employees like myself, very anti-teacher, very hawkish, very anti-union, very pro-vouchers, loves Sarah Palin. Honestly I don’t know the guy?

But I guess I still see him through the lens of a 20-something year old kid who was awstruck at the intellect and fine teaching. He is the BEST college instructor I ever had and I have emailed him here and there and he’s always corgial. He lives in our area, about twenty miles from my house. Amazing guy…his scholarship, memory, authorship, experience in the field as a historian, and just overall breadth of knowledge about every single war in every single age is mind-boggling…
You picked two good ones in Hanson and Will. Both sound, smart, and honest conservatives, but Will is probably considered too elitist by the “real Americans” who rely on Limbaugh and Beck to do their thinking for them, and who diminish Hanson, if they even know who he is, as just a historian.
 
You picked two good ones in Hanson and Will. Both sound, smart, and honest conservatives, but Will is probably considered too elitist by the “real Americans” who rely on Limbaugh and Beck to do their thinking for them, and who diminish Hanson, if they even know who he is, as just a historian.
Oh my. We’re back to the liberal myth that conservatives look to Limbaugh and Beck for their marching orders. It plays into the Liberal Elite attitude that thier ideas are so pure & good that the only reason the unwashed masses don’t support them is because they had been duped by demagogues into supporting ideas that are bad for them. Exactly the kind of attitude the New York Times fosters.
 
Do you know that I had the priviledge to be in Dr. Hanson’s Ancient Greece course at California State University Fresno back in the 90’s?
:tiphat: It’s great when you can have a class with any of the “greats” in any subject. In college, one of my Philosophy professors was Quentin Lauer, S.J., one of the foremost Hegelians in the United States. Mind-blowing.
Now he is very anti public employees like myself, very anti-teacher, very hawkish, very anti-union, very pro-vouchers, loves Sarah Palin. Honestly I don’t know the guy?
Sorry to hear that. I didn’t consider him to be such an extremist. I find a lot of conservatism to be right and proper, but not aggressive neo-conservatism.

Still, he is brilliant and worth reading and thinking about.

Lucky you!
 
Oh my. We’re back to the liberal myth that conservatives look to Limbaugh and Beck for their marching orders.
Not a myth, not all conservatives, just the “real Americans” or the “true patriots” as they like to refer to themselves.
the unwashed masses…had been duped by demagogues into supporting ideas that are bad for them.
For the most part, yes.
 
Not a myth, not all conservatives, just the “real Americans” or the “true patriots” as they like to refer to themselves.

For the most part, yes.
I just don’t know how to respond! Hopefully Rush will give me guidance during his program today. …
 
I just don’t know how to respond! Hopefully Rush will give me guidance during his program today. …
I’m sure he will. He’s not at all reticent about giving advice to his followers.
 
I hate to say it, but it’s true that most hardcore conservatives use Rush, Hannity, Savage, Levin, etc. as their filter.

I have a friend who is a total GOP partyline follower and he is very honest with me when I bring up news and says, “well, I have to wait till tomorrow when Rush comments on that. Right now I don’t have anything to say.” Or if I say something about an issue, he replies, “well according to Rush ____________” etc. or “that’s not what Rush claims!”

In my area, the central valley of CA, it is so uber conservative that you’ll hear Rush in everybody’s cars and trucks, radios, businesses all over the place.

Conservatives hate the “lamestream” media but have created their own braintrust in Fox and EIB, etc. to tell them how to think.

The left wing liberals use the NY Times, MSNBC, sometimes CNN, Time Magazine, Newsweek and PBS to brainwash them.

The days of objective journalism, integrity, reporting the news and letting the individual interpret it without bias or yellow journalism as well as un-American partisanship are over. 😦
 
The days of objective journalism, integrity, reporting the news and letting the individual interpret it without bias or yellow journalism as well as un-American partisanship are over. 😦
But if you agree that the high-brow establishment media have always had a hidden bias, that might not be a bad thing. One thing that bugs me about the media is the uniformity of the opinion their punditry offers on just about every topic. I think it’s healthy to have Fox News et al out there as a corrective to liberal group think.

But I can also agree with your larger point – nostalgia for the days when there was at least the appearance of a national consensus on certain broad things, which the national establishment media simultaneously fostered and reflected.
 
I hate to say it, but it’s true that most hardcore conservatives use Rush, Hannity, Savage, Levin, etc. as their filter.

I have a friend who is a total GOP partyline follower and he is very honest with me when I bring up news and says, “well, I have to wait till tomorrow when Rush comments on that. Right now I don’t have anything to say.” Or if I say something about an issue, he replies, “well according to Rush ____________” etc. or “that’s not what Rush claims!”

In my area, the central valley of CA, it is so uber conservative that you’ll hear Rush in everybody’s cars and trucks, radios, businesses all over the place.

Conservatives hate the “lamestream” media but have created their own braintrust in Fox and EIB, etc. to tell them how to think.

The left wing liberals use the NY Times, MSNBC, sometimes CNN, Time Magazine, Newsweek and PBS to brainwash them.

The days of objective journalism, integrity, reporting the news and letting the individual interpret it without bias or yellow journalism as well as un-American partisanship are over. 😦
I basically agree with that. Sad. 😦
 
But if you agree that the high-brow establishment media have always had a hidden bias, that might not be a bad thing. One thing that bugs me about the media is the uniformity of the opinion their punditry offers on just about every topic. I think it’s healthy to have Fox News et al out there as a corrective to liberal group think.

But I can also agree with your larger point – nostalgia for the days when there was at least the appearance of a national consensus on certain broad things, which the national establishment media simultaneously fostered and reflected.
I also agree with that as well.
 
Agreed. Fox is definitely a necessary evil to balance the ludicrous leftist positions of MSNBC that is really just a pseudonym for “The Obama Network.” But in a better republic, we’d need neither as our media would be unbiased and trust the populace to draw their own conclusion and use their own brains…
But if you agree that the high-brow establishment media have always had a hidden bias, that might not be a bad thing. One thing that bugs me about the media is the uniformity of the opinion their punditry offers on just about every topic. I think it’s healthy to have Fox News et al out there as a corrective to liberal group think.

But I can also agree with your larger point – nostalgia for the days when there was at least the appearance of a national consensus on certain broad things, which the national establishment media simultaneously fostered and reflected.
 
The days of objective journalism, integrity, reporting the news and letting the individual interpret it without bias or yellow journalism as well as un-American partisanship are over. 😦
Excuse my cynicism, but was there ever such a time? The very term, “yellow journalism” goes back to the beginning of the last century.
 
Do you know that I had the priviledge to be in Dr. Hanson’s Ancient Greece course at California State University Fresno back in the 90’s? I was top of his class. Myself and another guy were the only A’s in the class out of 35 students. He’s a killer professor, I have to tell ya. Brilliant doesn’t begin. He is the most intelligent human being I’ve personally ever met and I felt like I was in the presence of real exceptional brilliance in his presence. Awesome guy.

But it blew me away how he was a Bill Clinton moderate when I was in his class, somewhat cynical about military folks and U.S. intervention/foreign policies, and a touch liberal on certain issues and then in the new millenium he became a neo-con, pro nation-building, 100% Bush acolyte, and completely a conservative of the very very far right.

I read his pro-nation-building agenda that he preaches bigtime now and it’s a 180 from what he taught us at Fresno State about the dangers of doing what Athens did when it became a colonizing dominator in the Mediterranean with the Delian League after the Persian Wars, etc. He talked about how we were going down the same road as Athens, on a collision course, etc.

Now he is very anti public employees like myself, very anti-teacher, very hawkish, very anti-union, very pro-vouchers, loves Sarah Palin. Honestly I don’t know the guy?

But I guess I still see him through the lens of a 20-something year old kid who was awstruck at the intellect and fine teaching. He is the BEST college instructor I ever had and I have emailed him here and there and he’s always corgial. He lives in our area, about twenty miles from my house. Amazing guy…his scholarship, memory, authorship, experience in the field as a historian, and just overall breadth of knowledge about every single war in every single age is mind-boggling…
Could Hanson’s change of Poltical POV be tied to 9/11, Gurney? I know at least, speaking for myself, that my life and outlook on life was never the same after watching what happened on National Television those years ago. And this was even before my conversion.
9/11 woke a lot of people to the realities of the fallen world we live in. So it would not surprise me in the least that Hanson’s “conversion” may have had a LOT to do with that Horrible Day. 😦
 
I hate to say it, but it’s true that most hardcore conservatives use Rush, Hannity, Savage, Levin, etc. as their filter.

I have a friend who is a total GOP partyline follower and he is very honest with me when I bring up news and says, “well, I have to wait till tomorrow when Rush comments on that. Right now I don’t have anything to say.” Or if I say something about an issue, he replies, “well according to Rush ____________” etc. or “that’s not what Rush claims!”

In my area, the central valley of CA, it is so uber conservative that you’ll hear Rush in everybody’s cars and trucks, radios, businesses all over the place.

Conservatives hate the “lamestream” media but have created their own braintrust in Fox and EIB, etc. to tell them how to think.

The left wing liberals use the NY Times, MSNBC, sometimes CNN, Time Magazine, Newsweek and PBS to brainwash them.

The days of objective journalism, integrity, reporting the news and letting the individual interpret it without bias or yellow journalism as well as un-American partisanship are over. 😦
Most Conservatives are like me-when they say that they have to listen to what Rush says and get back with you they do it with tongue firmly in cheek. Believe it or not one can arrive at a conservative point of view without being brainwashed. In fact I can not understand how anyone with a knlwedge of History and the issues that face our Country would not be a conservative. Perhaps they are waiting for the NYT to tell them is OK?😉
 
Most Conservatives are like me-when they say that they have to listen to what Rush says and get back with you they do it with tongue firmly in cheek.
I’ll agree that that is true of many, but not of most conservatives.

But, I don’t believe that for a minute regarding the “patriots” and “real Americans” or whatever else that sort call themselves as they wait on every silver-tongued, precious, inspired word from the Rush.
 
I’ll agree that that is true of many, but not of most conservatives.

But, I don’t believe that for a minute regarding the “patriots” and “real Americans” or whatever else that sort call themselves as they wait on every silver-tongued, precious, inspired word from the Rush.
Obviousy you dont know may conservaitve. but if it makes you feel better to believe “most” conservatives cant think on their own have it.
 
Agreed. Fox is definitely a necessary evil to balance the ludicrous leftist positions of MSNBC that is really just a pseudonym for “The Obama Network.” But in a better republic, we’d need neither as our media would be unbiased and trust the populace to draw their own conclusion and use their own brains…
Right. We’d get a newspaper delivered to our (electronic) doorstep every morning called “The Unvarnished Truth.” And it really would be. 😉

I don’t like the appearance of explicit partisanship in any news network. But I think having a variety of news sources which are upfront about their political and cultural worldview (in other words, opinion journalism) is probably better than a monolithic media with unrealistic pretensions to neutrality. I just don’t see how that’s humanly possible.

What I really would like to see is more ideological diversity in the newsrooms at establishment news outlets like the New York Times.
 
My friend is totally NOT tongue in cheek about it. Trust me.

Also, I don’t see how someone could have a knowledge of history and NOT be a moderate? The founders were not extremists in either direction. Some were deeply religious, some were deists and skeptics and very anti-clerical. Some were federalists and some were more for states’ rights. If you look at the 1800’s, the same thing—some were federally-minded, some states-rights. Teddy Roosevelt was a perfect moderate. He loved his environment and would be anathemized by Rush and his crew today. He was a naturalist yet also a hunter. He negotiated ends to wars, didn’t nation-build. He was pro-immigration but with common-sense more conservative demands attached: “We must Americanize in every way, in speech, in political ideas and principles, and in their way of looking at relations between church and state. We welcome the German and the Irishman who becomes an American. We have no use for the German or Irishman who remains such…”

A person who reads history will see the importance of labor unions. Before unions we had the Oliver Twist model. Employers can force people to work ungodly hours or get FIRED! There were no such things as weekends for many. Unions changed that. Collective bargaining allowed the employee to have some buy-in and dignity in the process of salary and benefits. Before that, he was at the mercy of the employer. There was no unpaid leave or maternity leave or anything that is pro-family in reality. Thanks to the union movement, these things became part of the American fabric.

Are you familiar with great men like Upton Sinclair and the “muckrakers?” They uncovered disgusting and dangerous practices in things like the meat-packing industry that improved our quality of life and health immeasurably. Liberal cause? Yep. Good one? Yep. Have you ever read “The Jungle” by Sinclair? WOW

Ida Tarbell helped uncover the corrupt trust manipulations in big business and investments, etc. She helped pave the way for anti-trust legislation which we still need to shore up!

Guys like Mark Twain were very liberal and if anything anti-religious and skeptical. Republicans were liberal in that they fought for abolitionism and a stronger federal government with racial issues, etc.

Medicare and Social Security are “liberal” causes, protecting national parks is a liberal cause, Richard Nixon wisely created the Environmental Protection Agency, a hated body by the far Right.

So I would say this: Republicans we have to thank for protecting many constitutional liberties like the right to bare arms, freedom of speech, protecting the sanctity of life that was an understood by the fathers, trying to keep taxes from going through the ceiling, not letting government extend itself into every artery of existence to an absurd degree, protecting small business, keeping marriage traditional, etc. I would thank liberals for things like weekends, benefits, clean air, government bodies that save lives like the USDA, etc. I am ok with government. I don’t mind the FAA checking the plane I get on to make sure it’s safe so I don’t BLOW UP. I don’t mind the USDA checking farming and meat-packing and food industries to keep e coli and garbage out of my food. I am ok with the FBI rooting out terrorists. I’m ok with the national parks service, post office, and other government agencies that make my life better.

So I would say the history of America is not a conservative one or a purely liberal one—a moderate one.

At this point in history we are in a polarized “us or them!” silly and childish period in which we join teams and demonize. It’s absurd and tragic.
Most Conservatives are like me-when they say that they have to listen to what Rush says and get back with you they do it with tongue firmly in cheek. Believe it or not one can arrive at a conservative point of view without being brainwashed. In fact I can not understand how anyone with a knlwedge of History and the issues that face our Country would not be a conservative. Perhaps they are waiting for the NYT to tell them is OK?😉
 
There has never been a perfect press; you know that, Rich. I’m simply saying that things were not as polarized and biased in earlier days. And I’m well aware of when “yellow journalism” became a common term. Thanks.

I know that there has always been favoritism in the media and downright insanity. Look at during the Civil War how Lincoln was lambasted by the press. It was brutal and nuts. And newspapers have always had their darlings and issues they favor, but never to the degree of the last 40 years or so.

Don’t apologize for your cynicism. I share it!

The fact that I get blasted by hardcore liberals and far right conservatives keeps me happy because I know I’m doing the right thing. Taking an extreme left or right position IMO is un-American and also un-Catholic. If both sides hate ya, you’re doing something right! :)👍
Excuse my cynicism, but was there ever such a time? The very term, “yellow journalism” goes back to the beginning of the last century.
 
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