Archbishop links priestly celibacy and Catholic sex abuse scandals

[whatevergirl]

*Dixieeagle points out the best point of all. This has nothing to do with celibacy…how bizarre that an AB would suggest that. Really? So, if I became celibate, then I would have a greater tendency to molest kids? Right. No…this has to do with as dixie pointed out, that many priests decades back, were entering the priesthood with not the purest agendas. Of those who have been linked to abuse, they probably had serious sexual issues before entering the priesthood. Being homosexual wasn’t accepted back 50+ years ago like today in our mainstream culture…it would have been very natural to ask a son…so when are you getting married? If he is say, 30+. The priesthood gave such men a place to hide who they were, sexually. If these men were married, the likliehood of them molesting their own kids might have been high, or maybe forcing themselves on others…getting married doesn’t cause someone to stop their sexual deviancy, if it’s woven into their personalities already. Thankfully, we know more about this today, back then, we didn’t.

 

[psalm42]

I agree with whatevergirl and many other posts on here,

Sorry for this rant and I am not meaning to offend anyone, but this has nothing to do with celibacy; it is NOT the root of the problem! I’ve done some research on sex addictions and it saddens me to think that a lot of people believe that, specifically, if priests marry, they will be less prone to do sexual things with other people!

sidenote: My mom was molested within her siblings, and by a priest and nun as a child and teenager. She did a VERY GOOD JOB of letting me know if someone ever touched me, no matter what they told me, to tell her directly. Was I ever afraid of people potentially abusing me as a child growing up? Nope, and I didn’t really realize what sexual abuse was until I became an adult.

Sex abusers and sex addicts need a specialized form of professional help.

 

[psalm42]

I agree with whatevergirl and many other posts on here,

Sorry for this rant and I am not meaning to offend anyone, but this has nothing to do with celibacy; it is NOT the root of the problem! I’ve done some research on sex addictions and it saddens me to think that a lot of people believe that, specifically, if priests marry, they will be less prone to do sexual things with other people!

sidenote: My mom was molested within her siblings, and by a priest and nun as a child and teenager. She did a VERY GOOD JOB of letting me know if someone ever touched me, no matter what they told me, to tell her directly. Was I ever afraid of people potentially abusing me as a child growing up? Nope, because I didn’t realize what it meant until I became an adult.

Sex abusers and sex addicts need a specialized form of professional help.

 

[otjm]

Sex abusers and sex addicts need a specialized form of professional help.

Perhaps a frontal lobotomy?

 

[The_Geographer]

Perhaps a frontal lobotomy?

Have you ever seen the documentary on the lobotomy? My goodness the man that created it, forbid calling him a doctor, was absolutely a monster.

 

[The_Geographer]

Oh really? Have you ever actually read the Bible?
Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 9:5 - Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

36 years, bible only Christian, Church of Christ…look it up. Was on my way to becoming a preacher. Spent one year in the seminary to become a priest. Came back home to the Catholic Church by studying scripture and finally discovering the ancient Christian documents that showed what Christians actually believed. I studied this subject in depth because at first I wanted to become an Orthodox Christian instead of a Latin Rite Catholic. I then started to look into eastern Catholicism as I felt more drawn to it over the Latin Rite. I still do, but for the sake of my family I decided to remain in the Latin rite.

I read the entire bible by the time I was a senior in high school. By the time I left the Army I had read the Old testament at least 2 or 3 times and the new testament 5 times. I spend 18 years in the Church of Christ, some teaching bible classes, and finally got through our one year readings several times. I guess reading/studying the old testament about 5 times and the new testament around 40 to 50 times. over and over and over and over. So why do you ask.

 

[otjm]

Have you ever seen the documentary on the lobotomy? My goodness the man that created it, forbid calling him a doctor, was absolutely a monster.

My dad had two partial frontal lobotomies, due to brain cancer. I am all too aware of what they are.

And having seen far to many sex abusers in my life, I am only partially facetious. Sorry if that offends anyone; but that is the way it is. I do not support the death penalty, but short of that may be on the table for discussion.

 

[otjm]

36 years, bible only Christian, Church of Christ…look it up. Was on my way to becoming a preacher. Spent one year in the seminary to become a priest. Came back home to the Catholic Church by studying scripture and finally discovering the ancient Christian documents that showed what Christians actually believed. I studied this subject in depth because at first I wanted to become an Orthodox Christian instead of a Latin Rite Catholic. I then started to look into eastern Catholicism as I felt more drawn to it over the Latin Rite. I still do, but for the sake of my family I decided to remain in the Latin rite.

I read the entire bible by the time I was a senior in high school. By the time I left the Army I had read the Old testament at least 2 or 3 times and the new testament 5 times. I spend 18 years in the Church of Christ, some teaching bible classes, and finally got through our one year readings several times. I guess reading/studying the old testament about 5 times and the new testament around 40 to 50 times. over and over and over and over. So why do you ask.

Because you missed one passage (it would appear). 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

 

[silentstar]

My dad had two partial frontal lobotomies, due to brain cancer. I am all too aware of what they are.

And having seen far to many sex abusers in my life, I am only partially facetious. Sorry if that offends anyone; but that is the way it is. I do not support the death penalty, but short of that may be on the table for discussion.

my personal belief is that sometimes some abusers get worse when they are in jail. There is a certain type of criminal who learns to “work the system” and they come out angrier and with more knowledge of offending than before.

However, I don’t support letting them off either. Jail is the place for a lot of people. For others, I am a believer in putting people in locked psychiatric wards where they will receive intensive treatment from therapists who will call them on their b.s. and keep them as long as necessary until they truly realize what they have done is wrong. Some abusers talk a line of b.s. and claim they are sorry but the real change comes when they learn to have empathy for their victims. At that time they re-evaluate what they did and realize it was genuinely wrong, and their concern stops being as much for themselves and more for the people they hurt.

however if you put people in locked psychiatric wards, you have to be careful that they are not in a position to abuse other patients or the staff.

 

[The_Geographer]

Because you missed one passage (it would appear). 40 lashes with a wet noodle.

Well, scripture talks about his mother in law, not his wife. So please do, BCV it and pull out the wet noodle but be warned the noodle has 2 ends and I watch Indiana Jones.

 

[otjm]

:clapping::clapping::clapping:

Well, scripture talks about his mother in law, not his wife. So please do, BCV it and pull out the wet noodle but be warned the noodle has 2 ends and I watch Indiana Jones.

:dancing::dancing::dancing:

 

[The_Geographer]

Love the disco moves. Been there, done that. Still funny.

Anyway, lets dig a into scripture. Let’s talk about Moses a tad bit. Moses, after God appeared to him, separated himself from his wife. He no longer has sexual relations with his wife. I can’t prove this but its interesting to discuss. I have a feeling that all of the Apostles, if married, separated themselves from their wives in the same way. Remember, they traveled all over the place.

It is also understand that married priests were required to not have sexual relations with their wives a minimum certain time I meant to ask the eastern rites, but keep getting side tracked. Now, I’m no expert by any measure, but I know your not either because I know priests that know far more than us on this subject. But I do know that there is evidence on this. I’ve read it but can’t BCV it because I’m still acclimating to it. I test everything I learn now after hearing so many difference of opinions on the many subjects up for grabs. Primacy of the Bishop of Rome is one that I found in the ECF. That was an important thing for me. I felt called to the priesthood and therefore believed it must be that I am supposed to be Orthodox. So I kept digging and digging. The more I dug the more I realized the Orthodox defending priestly celibacy as well, on the same level as the Catholic Church. I could actually write a book on my journey, am might one day, but in order to prevent someone from plagiarizing my story I’ll refrain…. Actually, my pastor recommended I write my story to help others dealing with the same sort of things. I was one of those victims your trying to defend.

 

[aicirt]

So you don’t trust Father Shuster? But do you trust Our Divine Lord and Savior who chose a married man, Simon Peter to be the first Pope of the Catholic Church?

I read the article he wrote which was posted on this board. That is all I know of this man so why would I trust him? He has given his view of things and I would like to hear the other side.

For the sake of argument, let’s suppose priests are allowed to marry. That doesn’t mean all priest must marry. Some will chose to remain single. So now the Church will have married priests with the assorted problems and temptations unique to that life, celibrate priests who dedicate their lives to the Church, and men who get through the seminary and act out.

 

[The_Geographer]

I read the article he wrote which was posted on this board. That is all I know of this man so why would I trust him? He has given his view of things and I would like to hear the other side.

For the sake of argument, let’s suppose priests are allowed to marry. That doesn’t mean all priest must marry. Some will chose to remain single. So now the Church will have married priests with the assorted problems and temptations unique to that life, celibrate priests who dedicate their lives to the Church, and men who get through the seminary and act out.

Priest will never be allowed to married. But married me may be allowed to become priests.

 

[pnewton]

The Church did allow married men to be priest at one time. The Church still allows this in a narrow range of circumstance. It might in the future expand this, or even allow priests to marry. There is no theological impediment to this. However, in light of all that we be lost by rejecting this long-standing tradition, I do not think it will ever happen. This scandal will have no bearing on the issue of celibacy. There simply is not data connecting the two issues, as much as those who oppose Catholics like to assume there is one.

 

[Sonic]

The Church did allow married men to be priest at one time. The Church still allows this in a narrow range of circumstance. It might in the future expand this, or even allow priests to marry. There is no theological impediment to this. However, in light of all that we be lost by rejecting this long-standing tradition, I do not think it will ever happen. This scandal will have no bearing on the issue of celibacy. There simply is not data connecting the two issues, as much as those who oppose Catholics like to assume there is one.

Your comment made me think of something. Some people are arguing that lifting the tradition of celibacy would fix the problem. Unfortunately, there seems to be a logical contradiction. The sex scandals were caused by religious who were actively not being celibate.

Just a passing thought… it’s not an argument for or against anything.

 

[sidbrown]

36 years, bible only Christian, Church of Christ…look it up. Was on my way to becoming a preacher. Spent one year in the seminary to become a priest. Came back home to the Catholic Church by studying scripture and finally discovering the ancient Christian documents that showed what Christians actually believed. I studied this subject in depth because at first I wanted to become an Orthodox Christian instead of a Latin Rite Catholic. I then started to look into eastern Catholicism as I felt more drawn to it over the Latin Rite. I still do, but for the sake of my family I decided to remain in the Latin rite.

I read the entire bible by the time I was a senior in high school. By the time I left the Army I had read the Old testament at least 2 or 3 times and the new testament 5 times. I spend 18 years in the Church of Christ, some teaching bible classes, and finally got through our one year readings several times. I guess reading/studying the old testament about 5 times and the new testament around 40 to 50 times. over and over and over and over. So why do you ask.

Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 9:5 - Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

 

[sidbrown]

I read the article he wrote which was posted on this board. That is all I know of this man so why would I trust him? He has given his view of things and I would like to hear the other side.

For the sake of argument, let’s suppose priests are allowed to marry. That doesn’t mean all priest must marry. Some will chose to remain single. So now the Church will have married priests with the assorted problems and temptations unique to that life, celibrate priests who dedicate their lives to the Church, and men who get through the seminary and act out.

The fact is that Our Divine Lord and Savior chose a married man to be the first Pope of the Catholic Church. That tradition set down by Our Divine Lord is good enough for me. Additionally it is known historically that there have been more than thirty popes who have been married. And of course, eleven of the twelve apostles called by Our Divine Lord were married. The one exception was the young St. John.

 

[The_Geographer]

Paul writes this in 1 Corinthians 9:5 - Do we have no right to take along a believing wife, as do also the other apostles, the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?

I think you need to reread that yourself. It never says they have wives. And that doesn’t mean I don’t believe NECESSARILY didn’t have wives.

I’ve heard this from both sides. Personally, I would prefer to have a mix. 20% of Catholic priests are married. Besides, its not our choice to decide if a priest can have a wife or not. I accept, but not blindly, that the Majesterium of the Church has the authority to say yay or nay. The Keys were handed to Peter and the bishops in union with Peter. When its all said and done, this is why we actually accept this long standing tradition.

 

[Cinette]

I am not buying it. I think that a good and decent Catholic wife would keep a sharp eye out for problems. I think that all priests should be required to be married and celibacy should be done away with completely. All of these stories coming out every day of perverts and coverups are thoroughly disgusting and shameful…

Have you done your Math?

There is really a very small percentage of priests who have abused. I have never come across one - I have, on the other hand, come across many holy and devoted men who do embrace their celibacy.

I do not think this is a Catholic thing. Rather it is a symptom of our modern society - splintered families, permissiveness, children with no Fathers, absent fathers and Fathers who really do not participate… There was a time when many entered the priesthood and the religious life without real vocations - just to escape poverty - I know many holy men and women who are highly educated and who could have a bundle of money out in the world who have chosen instead to give it all up for the religious life.

All the abuse must be exposed but have you noticed that when it is Catholic the media goes wild - what about the other abuse??? Sometime ago there was a horror story of an orphanage in the Isle of White where lots of remains of little children were found in the grounds…what happened about that story?

I do believe in the exposure and punishment of abusers - all of them.

I also believe that the devil is very active and of course he chooses those closest to God - he has nothing to do in the bordellos!