Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'

[Wiljo2050]

The Church is against providing something they consider evil. I’m sure there are things you consider wrong. If the government can compel the Church to do what She sees as evil, despite the protections in our constitution, it can eventually force anybody, including you, to do what you consider evil, because it has proven that the constitution means nothing.

The mandate no longer requires this please read the news,something besides fox news!

 

[Wiljo2050]

The Church is against providing something they consider evil. I’m sure there are things you consider wrong. If the government can compel the Church to do what She sees as evil, despite the protections in our constitution, it can eventually force anybody, including you, to do what you consider evil, because it has proven that the constitution means nothing.

Like I said I dont think contraceptives are evil,changed mandate to make faith institutions not have to do this

 

[jwinch2]

No the Pope intruding on American rights to use contraceptives! If your against them personally never use one !

Neither divine law or constitutional law provides for a right to contraception. In America, you have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Note that you get to try for happiness, not that it is guaranteed.

Furthermore, pregnancy is a result of normal physiological function and is not a state of disease.

At some point, we all have to choose whether or not we will accept God’s free offering of grace or in the end we will have the choice made for us but our rejection of God.

You state in your profile that you are Catholic yet you keep pushing for use of contraception. I have to be candid here in the spirit of fraternal correction, as called for by the Holy Father this Lent, and state that those two things do not equal.

 

[Incomplete]

The mandate no longer requires this please read the news,something besides fox news!

You don’t need to be sarcastic. Just link me to the change.

But first, you need to understand two things: if you mean Obama’s announcement that insurance would pay, that changes nothing. There’s two reasons it changes nothing. First (and if you have read this thread or anything at all by the Bishops) you’ll understand this:

Catholic organizations have to provide an insurance policy to employers, and that policy will provide contraception. Has that changed? Because if it hasn’t (and since Dolan spoke out against it as recently as today, I’m guessing it hasn’t), link me to the change. We are still required to provide something we see as evil.

Second, that statement Obama made…find it in the mandate. The mandate was published in the National Register, it wasn’t in there.

 

[Incomplete]

Like I said I dont think contraceptives are evil,changed mandate to make faith institutions not have to do this

It doesn’t matter if you think contraception is evil. The Church does, and the constitution guarantees us the right to practice our religion.

You missed my point. I’m guessing there is something you think is evil. If the government can change the constitution on a whim like this and force some people to do evil, they can do the same to you one day.

As far as the mandate changing. I’ve answered that.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

The mandate no longer requires this please read the news,something besides fox news!

Apparently the bishops (not Fox News) have concluded otherwise.

 

[jwinch2]

A link to Church teaching on the idea of subsidiarity.

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html#Origin and meanin

vatican.va/roman_curia/pontifical_councils/justpeace/documents/rc_pc_justpeace_doc_20060526_compendio-dott-soc_en.html#Concrete indications

People can also look to Pope Benedict’s encyclical DEUS CARITAS EST which talks about the principle at length.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20051225_deus-caritas-est_en.html

As short version: catholicculture.org/culture/what_you_need_to_know/index.cfm?id=84

If more of us understood these teachings, we would not be in this situation and frankly, our country and our Church, would be far better off.

 

[LisaA]

The mandate no longer requires this please read the news,something besides fox news!

You are absolutely WRONG. The mandate was written into the law EXACTLY as it was first reported. There was no change. Obama had a news conference where he offered a shell game about having insurance companies provide the contraceptives, abortifacients and sterilization directly and at no cost. Aside from the reality that since the insurance companies provide the products as a result of the religious organization buying insurance, that the organization doesn’t hand over the pills directly is irrelevant. Aside from that, there was NO CHANGE IN THE MANDATE. NONE. NADA

Oh and I read this on the USCCB website. You might take a look to get up to date on some of these issues. The Bishops have provided a great deal of written material detailing their issues with the Mandate and its implementation.

Lisa

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

A link to Church teaching on the idea of subsidiarity.
…
If more of us understood these teachings, we would not be in this situation and frankly, our country and our Church, would be far better off.

Amen.

 

[jwinch2]

You are absolutely WRONG. The mandate was written into the law EXACTLY as it was first reported. There was no change. Obama had a news conference where he offered a shell game about having insurance companies provide the contraceptives, abortifacients and sterilization directly and at no cost. Aside from the reality that since the insurance companies provide the products as a result of the religious organization buying insurance, that the organization doesn’t hand over the pills directly is irrelevant. Aside from that, there was NO CHANGE IN THE MANDATE. NONE. NADA

Oh and I read this on the USCCB website. You might take a look to get up to date on some of these issues. The Bishops have provided a great deal of written material detailing their issues with the Mandate and its implementation.

Lisa

Lisa, I am afraid I must disagree with you on one thing. To call this a shell game in an insult…, to shell games. In a shell game, the person trying to screw you over at least has the decency to use three shells and make it appear as if things are moving around.

In this case, there is only one shell and the President is still pretending there are three.

 

[Tigg]

Like I said I dont think contraceptives are evil,

This is moral relativism - something else the Church has condemned. Your individual truth does not trump the objective and defense of evil can easily be rationalized by appealing to a counterfeit conscience.

 

[Tigg]

Like I said I dont think contraceptives are evil,

This is moral relativism - something else the Church has condemned. Your individual truth does not trump the objective and defense of evil can easily be rationalized by appealing to a counterfeit conscience.

 

[_Abyssinia]

Dolan Urges Catholics to Become More Active in Politics

nytimes.com/2012/03/04/nyregion/cardinal-timothy-m-dolan-urges-catholics-to-become-more-politically-active.html?_r=1&src=tp
Ask not what you can do for your country… ask what your country can do for you!

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=27708

 

[_Abyssinia]

Priest warns Obama: Better knock the Catholic Church out now - you’ve awakened the giant

Fr. John Hollowell’s truly amazing monologue needs to be spread far and wide. It’s a wake up call, and one of the most encouraging statements I’ve heard in a long time. It’s a Divine battle cry!

The talk heats up after minute 2 where he notes in this talk addressed to Planned Parenthood Pres. Cecile Richards that “we have not doubt” that in the future Planned Parenthood will be seen as the “slave traders, the Nazis, the Communists and all those groups that seek to oppress people.”

He then warns PP and President Obama: “You better knock us out now. You and the President better knock us out right now, because Cecile, I can promise you - Here comes the Catholic Church … you’ve awakened a sleeping giant.”

“Priests and bishops that have in the past been content to remain quiet are no longer so. … The Truth is being rained down everywhere. … Here comes the Catholic Church.”

He notes that PP since its founding “have proclaimed yourselves sworn enemies of the Catholic Church,” but “we’re in the ring now, the gloves are off.” He acknowledges that Cecile has every worldly advantage in her corner - the President of the United States, the media. But Goliath too had every worldly advantage.

The powerful talk ends quoting Tolkein: “The board is set, the pieces are now in motion, at last we come to it - the great battle of our age.”

AWESOME!!!

lifesitenews.com/blog/priest-warns-obama-better-knock-the-catholic-church-out-now-youve-awakened

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ptzi4ZrkiJE

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

[T]he President invited us to “work out the wrinkles.” We have accepted that invitation. Unfortunately, this seems to be stalled: the White House Press Secretary, for instance, informed the nation that the mandates are a fait accompli (and, embarrassingly for him, commented that we bishops have always opposed Health Care anyway, a charge that is scurrilous and insulting, not to mention flat out wrong. Bishop Blaire did a fine job of setting the record straight.) The White House already notified Congress that the dreaded mandates are now published in the Federal Registry “without change.” The Secretary of HHS is widely quoted as saying, “Religious insurance companies don’t really design the plans they sell based on their own religious tenets.” That doesn’t bode well for their getting a truly acceptable “accommodation.”

At a recent meeting between staff of the bishops’ conference and the White House staff, our staff members asked directly whether the broader concerns of religious freedom—that is, revisiting the straight-jacketing mandates, or broadening the maligned exemption—are all off the table. They were informed that they are. So much for “working out the wrinkles.” Instead, they advised the bishops’ conference that we should listen to the “enlightened” voices of accommodation, such as the recent, hardly surprising yet terribly unfortunate editorial in America. The White House seems to think we bishops simply do not know or understand Catholic teaching and so, taking a cue from its own definition of religious freedom, now has nominated its own handpicked official Catholic teachers.

We will continue to accept invitations to meet with and to voice our concerns to anyone of any party, for this is hardly partisan, who is willing to correct the infringements on religious freedom that we are now under. But as we do so, we cannot rely on off the record promises of fixes without deadlines and without assurances of proposals that will concretely address the concerns in a manner that does not conflict with our principles and teaching.

usccb.org/issues-and-action/religious-liberty/upload/Dolan-to-all-bishops-HHS.pdf

 

[_Abyssinia]

Joe Klein Shocker: Requiring Insurers to Cover Birth Control 'Major Overstepping of the State’s Role’

newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2012/03/04/joe-klein-shocker-requiring-insurers-cover-birth-control-major-overst#ixzz1oEsOooCN
Debunking HHS Mandate Myths

Myth #1

: “28 states — more than half — in the country have laws with contraception coverage mandates.”

Truth: The federal mandate actually goes much deeper. In states where there are mandates religious organizations can simply opt out by self-insuring or dropping prescription drug coverage. The federal mandate does not allow any of these alternatives, and does not protect our religious liberty.

…

nationalreview.com/corner/292569/debunking-hhs-mandate-myths-kathryn-jean-lopez
Professor lectures on ethics of HHS mandate (Notre Dame)

ndsmcobserver.com/news/professor-lectures-on-ethics-of-hhs-mandate-1.2807714
Weigel weighs in on HHS mandate during Rhode Island Visit

catholicnewsagency.com/news/weigel-weighs-in-on-hhs-mandate-during-rhode-island-visit/
**Ave Maria Sues Over ‘Accommodation’ **

ncregister.com/site/article/ave-maria-sues-over-accommodation​

Speaking Out Against HHS Mandate

President John Garvey of The Catholic University of America Throws His Support Behind the U.S. Bishops

ncregister.com/site/article/speaking-out-against-hhs-mandate
FRC’s Cathy Ruse on HHS mandate: "Not a women’s issue"

washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/2/obama-mandate-not-a-womens-issue

 

[Wiljo2050]

Priest warns Obama: Better knock the Catholic Church out now - you’ve awakened the giant

lifesitenews.com/blog/priest-warns-obama-better-knock-the-catholic-church-out-now-youve-awakened

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ptzi4ZrkiJE

The catholic church has become a political pawn of politicians whose main goal is to protect the rich,Keep the war machine companies supplied with money,have no respect for life and put us in a war on a lie,{there was no weapons of mass destruction} presidental canidates who say they are christian to people then continually commit adultery.,Have no respect for the enviroment,no respect for educators,hate unions,but where did laws protecting child labor,promoting liveable wages,no forced over time,holiday pay come from.I will never join hands with anyone that is a pawn for the people above! But I will say the rosary,go to mass on sunday and thank the lord for my blessings,pray for the poor,pray for my family.And Respect all forms of life,even if they dont think the same way I do!No I dont need the church to tell me who to vote for.Thats why martin luther left the church because it was joining hands with the power brokers!All this is happening in the disguise of abortion and gay rights.The catholic church certainly doesnt have any monoply on morality.It needs to stay out of politics and keep the money changers out of church.Render to Ceaser what is ceasers"The churches main focus should be love your nabor as thyself,and loving the lord with all your mind ,heart, and soul!Thats all the church needs to teach the people,and the Lord will take care of the rest!

 

[jwinch2]

Something our supposed Catholic politicians might want to read again and some of our other Catholics who feel it is acceptable to dissent from Church teaching.
Joshua 24:15:

But if it seem evil to you to serve the Lord, you have your choice: choose this day that which pleaseth you, whom you would rather serve, whether the gods which your fathers served in Mesopotamia, or the gods of the Amorrhites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house we will serve the Lord.

These words are as true today as when they were originally spoken. Oh, the names are different, we don’t think of the gods of mesopotamia or the amorrhites anymore, but the concepts are the same. Now we have the false gods of secularism, moderism, statism, socialism, etc. People consistently choose these false gods over the Lord, just as they did in Old Testament times. And, what is also true is that we have free will. God will not force us so we have to make the decision on our own. When I see the numbers of Catholics who do not participate in our faith, who openly dissent from Church teaching, who don’t believe in the most basic aspects of the faith, etc., to me that is no different than what Joshua said to people in his time. “Choose.”

Also, the Church has had in the past and continues to teach against the idea of the welfare state. The idea that the Church is for large governmental programs which force change from the top down is false.
Blessed John Paul II:

Centesimus Annus, 1991:
#48. “Another task of the State is that of overseeing and directing the exercise of human rights in the economic sector. However, primary responsibility in this area belongs not to the State but to individuals and to the various groups and associations which make up society. The State could not directly ensure the right to work for all its citizens unless it controlled every aspect of economic life and restricted the free initiative of individuals. This does not mean, however, that the State has no competence in this domain, as was claimed by those who argued against any rules in the economic sphere. Rather, the State has a duty to sustain business activities by creating conditions which will ensure job opportunities, by stimulating those activities where they are lacking or by supporting them in moments of crisis.

“In recent years the range of such intervention has vastly expanded, to the point of creating a new type of State, the so-called “Welfare State”. This has happened in some countries in order to respond better to many needs and demands, by remedying forms of poverty and deprivation unworthy of the human person. However, excesses and abuses, especially in recent years, have provoked very harsh criticisms of the Welfare State, dubbed the “Social Assistance State”. Malfunctions and defects in the Social Assistance State are the result of an inadequate understanding of the tasks proper to the State. Here again the principle of subsidiarity must be respected: a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to coordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.”

Benedict XVI:

By considering reciprocity as the heart of what it is to be a human being, subsidiarity is the most effective antidote against any form of all-encompassing welfare state. It is able to take account both of the manifold articulation of plans — and therefore of the plurality of subjects — as well as the coordination of those plans. Hence the principle of subsidiarity is particularly well-suited to managing globalization and directing it towards authentic human development. In order not to produce a dangerous universal power of a tyrannical nature, the governance of globalization must be marked by subsidiarity, articulated into several layers and involving different levels that can work together. Globalization certainly requires authority, insofar as it poses the problem of a global common good that needs to be pursued. This authority, however, must be organized in a subsidiary and stratified way[138], if it is not to infringe upon freedom and if it is to yield effective results in practice.

 

[qui_est_ce]

The catholic church has become a political pawn of politicians whose main goal is to protect the rich,Keep the war machine companies supplied with money,have no respect for life and put us in a war on a lie,{there was no weapons of mass destruction} presidental canidates who say they are christian to people then continually commit adultery.,Have no respect for the enviroment,no respect for educators,hate unions,but where did laws protecting child labor,promoting liveable wages,no forced over time,holiday pay come from.I will never join hands with anyone that is a pawn for the people above! But I will say the rosary,go to mass on sunday and thank the lord for my blessings,pray for the poor,pray for my family.And Respect all forms of life,even if they dont think the same way I do!No I dont need the church to tell me who to vote for.Thats why martin luther left the church because it was joining hands with the power brokers!All this is happening in the disguise of abortion and gay rights.The catholic church certainly doesnt have any monoply on morality.It needs to stay out of politics and keep the money changers out of church.Render to Ceaser what is ceasers"The churches main focus should be love your nabor as thyself,and loving the lord with all your mind ,heart, and soul!Thats all the church needs to teach the people,and the Lord will take care of the rest!

ummm, if you hate the Church so much, why do you identify as Catholic?

 

[jwinch2]

Cardinal Dolan on the greatest modern existential threat to Catholic Church