Archbishop: Obama Needs To Stop 'Intruding Into Internal Life Of Church'

  • Thread starter Thread starter gilliam
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
_Abyssinia said:
Bishops consider broader focus in birth-control fight
Click to expand...
But Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York suggested in a recent blog post that if the “suffocating mandate” couldn’t be scrapped entirely, he would settle for more exemptions for religious institutions, “so that churches can be free.”
Click to expand...
This is exactly what I fear most: that they will make a seperate peace with the administration to protect their own consciences but leave the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

The entire article is quite dispiriting but it is useful to know where things stand.
 
Alan55 said:
One of the teachings of the Church is that we tell the truth. Calling Obama a Marxist stretches the truth beyond recognition. Mouthing right-wing conservative slogans is not the same thing as telling the truth.
Click to expand...
This might be your opinion, but actually Marxist ideology is a legitimately recognized political philosophy. Are you a political science major that you might disagree with the many who have researched and outlined their case?
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
This is exactly what I fear most: that they will make a seperate peace with the administration to protect their own consciences but leave the rest of us to fend for ourselves.

The entire article is quite dispiriting but it is useful to know where things stand.
Click to expand...
But if the Bishops did agree to religious exemptions with the Obama admin those exemptions would extend to every employer who wants an exemption, the Bishops have said the HHS mandate needs to be rescinded of everything objectionable - the Bishops are not going to compromise on that.

I think the Bishops look at universal health care from a humanitarian perspective, they probably see it as a good thing in idea, but this thing over the HHS mandate should be a warning to everyone that universal health care does not work, it leads to religious liberty issues, funding of abortion etc.
 
_Abyssinia said:
But if the Bishops did agree to religious exemptions with the Obama admin those exemptions would extend to every employer who wants an exemption, the Bishops have said the HHS mandate needs to be rescinded of everything objectionable - the Bishops are not going to compromise on that.
Click to expand...
That is their current public position but Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York is already speaking openly of a fallback position to exempting only “religious institutions”. In other words, Dolan is ready to start haggling on the administration’s terms simply to expand the exemption that is there to, perhaps, Catholic hospitals and universities. Very discouraging!
I think the Bishops look at universal health care from a humanitarian perspective, they probably see it as a good thing in idea, but this thing over the HHS mandate should be a warning to everyone that universal health care does not work in practice, it leads to religious liberty issues, funding of abortion etc.
Click to expand...
I know they do. What you say is obvious to us but not yet so obvious to many bishops. I think many bishops would be happy to compromise with Obama and expand their ghetto just a bit and otherwise get behind Obamacare. Whether that is most or merely some remains to be seen.

Now if it is true, as JReducation claimed, that the pope directed the bishops to fight for a general exemption, not merely one for Catholic institutions, then all of this is moot and Dolan is simply wandering from the flock.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
Now if it is true, as JReducation claimed, that the pope directed the bishops to fight for a general exemption, not merely one for Catholic institutions, then all of this is moot and Dolan is simply wandering from the flock.
Click to expand...
Or, Cardinal Dolan is looking for a fix that minimizes damage in the short-term in hopes that a legislative approach or judicial challenge has time to materialize. Or, by the time it would go into effect, a new President could be in office.
 
_Abyssinia said:
But if the Bishops did agree to religious exemptions with the Obama admin those exemptions would extend to every employer who wants an exemption, the Bishops have said the HHS mandate needs to be rescinded of everything objectionable - the Bishops are not going to compromise on that.

I think the Bishops look at universal health care from a humanitarian perspective, they probably see it as a good thing in idea, but this thing over the HHS mandate should be a warning to everyone that universal health care does not work, it leads to religious liberty issues, funding of abortion etc.
Click to expand...
I hope and pray (and believe) you are right that the exemption must apply to all with a religious objection, not just Catholic (or Amish or any other religion).

When I hear the words “universal healthcare” I want to scream (not at you Abyssinia!) because we DO have “universal healthcare” in this country. I have contact with doctors in other countries through an international fellowship training program. This is not a third world country where people die in the streets, and one of the most active providers of healthcare to the poor is the CATHOLIC CHURCH. I mean what are they talking about, they already promote and provide healthcare to those who cannot pay.

The way that Obama went about it was completely bass-ackwards. You can issue a gold plated insurance card to everyone in the country but you cannot force a doctor to accept that insurance. It’s total baloney to presume that slavery will soon be legal and the government can force doctors, nurses and other providers to care for patients with their government issue cards. Of course it’s clear the Obama administration thinks nothing of using coercion, fines, and threats to get what they want. I just hope our Bishops do not fall into a trap of tit for tat…

There are ways to improve access and decrease cost which should have been the goal of Obama-care. However all of those methods went against the grain of Democrat supporters (trial lawyers, big pharma, unions) and thus were sent to the ashcan. I truly don’t think they want to solve any problems, they just want control so they can pander to their constituancies and deny services to those they do not support.

Lisa
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
That is their current public position but Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York is already speaking openly of a fallback position to exempting only “religious institutions”. In other words, Dolan is ready to start haggling on the administration’s terms simply to expand the exemption that is there to, perhaps, Catholic hospitals and universities. **Very discouraging!**I
Click to expand...
And, imo, not unpredictable.
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
That is their current public position but Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York is already speaking openly of a fallback position to exempting only “religious institutions”. In other words, Dolan is ready to start haggling on the administration’s terms simply to expand the exemption that is there to, perhaps, Catholic hospitals and universities. Very discouraging!
Click to expand...
I pray to God that is not the position Cardinal Dolon will take. There needs to be a religious exemption for everybody, not just religious institutions.
I know they do. What you say is obvious to us but not yet so obvious to many bishops. I think many bishops would be happy to compromise with Obama and expand their ghetto just a bit and otherwise get behind Obamacare. Whether that is most or merely some remains to be seen.
Click to expand...
Now if it is true, as JReducation claimed, that the pope directed the bishops to fight for a general exemption, not merely one for Catholic institutions, then all of this is moot and Dolan is simply wandering from the flock.
Click to expand...
I hope that is true about Pope Benedict directing the Bishops.

I think we should give Cardinal Dolon benefit of the doubt regarding this, so far he has stood strong opposing the HHS mandate.
 
A lot of you are expressing hope, and of course I share your hope, but…
 
Catholic Bishops Double Down in Defending the Religious-Liberty Rights of All Americans
The U.S. Catholic Bishops are “United for Religious Freedom,” as the title of a statement released this afternoon puts it.
Click to expand...
A “strongly unified and intensely focused in its opposition to the various threats to religious freedom in our day,” the Administrative Committee of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (chaired by Timothy Cardinal Dolan of New York, the Conference president) today provides a helpful encouragement and clarification on the HHS Mandate debate.
Click to expand...
“One particular religious freedom issue demands our immediate attention: the now-finalized rule of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services that would force virtually all private health plans nationwide to provide coverage of sterilization and contraception — including abortifacient drugs — subject to an exemption for ‘religious employers’ that is arbitrarily narrow, and to an unspecified and dubious future ‘accommodation’ for other religious organizations that are denied the exemption,” the statement emphasizes.
Click to expand...
It goes on to delineate what we are and what we are not debating when we discuss the coercive HHS Mandate.
Click to expand...
catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=28146
 
Whatever Dolan said or meant, it seems the bishops have not forgotten us:
A violation of personal civil rights. The HHS mandate creates still a third class, those with no conscience protection at all: individuals who, in their daily lives, strive constantly to act in accordance with their faith and moral values. They, too, face a government mandate to aid in providing “services” contrary to those values — whether in their sponsoring of, and payment for, insurance as employers; their payment of insurance premiums as employees; or as insurers themselves — without even the semblance of an exemption. This, too, is unprecedented in federal law, which has long been generous in protecting the rights of individuals not to act against their religious beliefs or moral convictions. We have consistently supported these rights, particularly in the area of protecting the dignity of all human life, and we continue to do so.
Click to expand...
 
JimG said:
New poll shows how strongly Americans oppose the HHS mandate:

ncregister.com/daily-news/new-poll-shows-how-strongly-americans-oppose-the-hhs-mandate/
Click to expand...
One thing to be careful of: I’ve seen a lot of polls that ask if religious institution (like schools and hospitals, not just churches) should be exempt. That’s got strong support. I would not infer from that a general support for a conscience exemption for everyone. The administration could easily broaden the exemption and satisfy a lot of people. That it won’t says someting.

And here it is:
Those polled believe by a 57% to 36% margin that religiously affiliated employers should be able to “opt out” of covering the full cost of birth control and related drugs if they have objections to doing so.
Click to expand...
 
Bubba_Switzler said:
One thing to be careful of: I’ve seen a lot of polls that ask if religious institution (like schools and hospitals, not just churches) should be exempt. That’s got strong support. I would not infer from that a general support for a conscience exemption for everyone. The administration could easily broaden the exemption and satisfy a lot of people. That it won’t says someting.
Click to expand...
That it didn’t have a broad exemption in place from the very start says something. And that it believed that of all things, contraception, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs ought to be the subject of a national mandate says something.

To me, it says total disregard for the rights of conscience of all Americans.
 
JimG said:
That it didn’t have a broad exemption in place from the very start says something. And that it believed that of all things, contraception, sterilization, and abortion inducing drugs ought to be the subject of a national mandate says something.
To me, it says total disregard for the rights of conscience of all Americans.
Click to expand...
In a perverted sort of way, I think we are blessed by our enemies. They ae so arrogant that they will refuse any compromise that the bishops might be tempted to accept. They are demanding from the bishops what amounts to an unconditional surrender of moral authority and fealty to the moral supremacy of the state in all but the narrowest matters of “worship”.

Thank God for Barack Hussein Obama!
 
George Weigel: the issue of religious freedom has moved close to home

life.nationalpost.com/2012/03/14/george-weigel-the-issue-of-religious-freedom-has-moved-close-to-home/
Dolan’s 7 “Givens” and 7 “Oughts” of Catholic Social Teaching

catholicvote.org/discuss/index.php?p=28128
IF ONLY CATHOLICS WERE INDIANS

catholicleague.org/if-only-catholics-were-indians/
‘What is the big deal about Catholics using birth control?’

lifesitenews.com/blog/what-is-the-big-deal-about-catholics-using-birth-control
Hannah Smith of The Becket Fund discussing HHS mandate on the O’Reilly Factor 2.13.2012

youtube.com/watch?v=IRo382-ToY8
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top