Archbishop of New York: Obama allies attempting to divide Catholic Church

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Archbishop of New York: Obama allies attempting to divide Catholic Church

dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/archbishop-of-new-york-obama-allies-attempting-to-divide-catholic-church/

**Published: 9:29 PM 03/28/2012 **

"On Wednesday’s “The O’Reilly Factor” on the Fox News Channel, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York and a man considered the post powerful cleric of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, leveled the charge that the Obama administration and its supporters are attempting to divide the Catholic Church.

Dolan said that the issue of contraception is being used as a political tool, and that its use is infringing on religious freedom.

“You are right on target,” Dolan said, addressing that the church’s position on banning contraception is unpopular with large sections of the American public. “It’s a tough battle because of that, and our opponents are very shrewd because they have chosen an issue that they know we are not very popular on and that is why, Bill, we have to be vigorous in insisting that this is not about contraception — it’s about religion freedom. And I don’t want to judge people, but I think there would be a drift in the administration that this is a good issue and if we can divide the Catholic community (because it’s already divided) and if one can caricature the bishops as being hopelessly out of touch — these bullies who are trying to achieve judicially and legislatively what they’ve been unable to achieve because their moral integrity was compromised recently. There is the force out there trying to caricature us, alright? But we can’t back down from this fight because it’s about religion freedom — it’s close to the heart of the democratic enterprise what we know and love and the United States of America is all about.”

Dolan dismissed the notion that there is a wall between church and state, saying that it isn’t the church itself that wants to be a force in American politics, but its members.

… ."
 
sounds like an interesting interview. will have to stay up to watch the repeat. when you have biden and pelosi as public figures that speak against the teachings of the church and they know that there are so many liberal Catholics out there, they think it will be easy to lead others astray and away from the Catholic church.
 
Cardinal Dolan is right, and it is straight out of the playbook.

nationalreview.com/articles/294454/still-alinsky-playbook-john-fund?pg=3
Rules for Radicals

In 1971, Saul Alinsky wrote an entertaining classic on grassroots organizing titled Rules for Radicals. Those who prefer cooperative tactics describe the book as out-of-date. Nevertheless, it provides some of the best advice on confrontational tactics. Alinsky begins this way:
What follows is for those who want to change the world from what it is to what they believe it should be. The Prince was written by Machiavelli for the Haves on how to hold power. Rules for Radicals is written for the Have-Nots on how to take it away.
His “rules” derive from many successful campaigns where he helped poor people fighting power and privilege

For Alinsky, organizing is the process of highlighting what is wrong and convincing people they can actually do something about it. The two are linked. If people feel they don’t have the power to change a bad situation, they stop thinking about it.

According to Alinsky, the organizer — especially a paid organizer from outside — must first overcome suspicion and establish credibility. Next the organizer must begin the task of agitating: rubbing resentments, fanning hostilities, and searching out controversy. This is necessary to get people to participate. An organizer has to attack apathy and disturb the prevailing patterns of complacent community life where people have simply come to accept a bad situation. Alinsky would say, “The first step in community organization is community disorganization.”

Through a process combining hope and resentment, the organizer tries to create a “mass army” that brings in as many recruits as possible from local organizations, churches, services groups, labor unions, corner gangs, and individuals.

Alinsky provides a collection of rules to guide the process. But he emphasizes these rules must be translated into real-life tactics that are fluid and responsive to the situation at hand.

Rule 1: Power is not only what you have, but what an opponent thinks you have. If your organization is small, hide your numbers in the dark and raise a din that will make everyone think you have many more people than you do.

Rule 2: Never go outside the experience of your people.
The result is confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 3: Whenever possible, go outside the experience of an opponent. Here you want to cause confusion, fear, and retreat.

Rule 4: Make opponents live up to their own book of rules. “You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.”

Rule 5: Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon. It’s hard to counterattack ridicule, and it infuriates the opposition, which then reacts to your advantage.

Rule 6: A good tactic is one your people enjoy. “If your people aren’t having a ball doing it, there is something very wrong with the tactic.”

Rule 7: A tactic that drags on for too long becomes a drag. Commitment may become ritualistic as people turn to other issues.

Rule 8: Keep the pressure on. Use different tactics and actions and use all events of the period for your purpose. “The major premise for tactics is the development of operations that will maintain a constant pressure upon the opposition. It is this that will cause the opposition to react to your advantage.”

Rule 9: The threat is more terrifying than the thing itself. When Alinsky leaked word that large numbers of poor people were going to tie up the washrooms of O’Hare Airport, Chicago city authorities quickly agreed to act on a longstanding commitment to a ghetto organization. They imagined the mayhem as thousands of passengers poured off airplanes to discover every washroom occupied. Then they imagined the international embarrassment and the damage to the city’s reputation.

Rule 10: The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative. Avoid being trapped by an opponent or an interviewer who says, “Okay, what would you do?”

Rule 11: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, polarize it. Don’t try to attack abstract corporations or bureaucracies. Identify a responsible individual. Ignore attempts to shift or spread the blame.

According to Alinsky, the main job of the organizer is to bait an opponent into reacting. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength.”
Click to expand...
 
catharina said:
Archbishop of New York: Obama allies attempting to divide Catholic Church

dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/archbishop-of-new-york-obama-allies-attempting-to-divide-catholic-church/

**Published: 9:29 PM 03/28/2012 **

"On Wednesday’s “The O’Reilly Factor” on the Fox News Channel, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York and a man considered the post powerful cleric of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, leveled the charge that the Obama administration and its supporters are attempting to divide the Catholic Church.

Dolan said that the issue of contraception is being used as a political tool, and that its use is infringing on religious freedom.

“You are right on target,” Dolan said, addressing that the church’s position on banning contraception is unpopular with large sections of the American public. “It’s a tough battle because of that, and our opponents are very shrewd because they have chosen an issue that they know we are not very popular on and that is why, Bill, we have to be vigorous in insisting that this is not about contraception — it’s about religion freedom. And I don’t want to judge people, but I think there would be a drift in the administration that this is a good issue and if we can divide the Catholic community (because it’s already divided) and if one can caricature the bishops as being hopelessly out of touch — these bullies who are trying to achieve judicially and legislatively what they’ve been unable to achieve because their moral integrity was compromised recently. There is the force out there trying to caricature us, alright? But we can’t back down from this fight because it’s about religion freedom — it’s close to the heart of the democratic enterprise what we know and love and the United States of America is all about.”

Dolan dismissed the notion that there is a wall between church and state, saying that it isn’t the church itself that wants to be a force in American politics, but its members.

… ."
Click to expand...
A couple things this brings to mind:
  1. I was watching some news blurb, a woman, holding a sign, said, “Keep women’s right to birth control!” …I was just thinking to myself, this is drowned in such inaccurate semantecs. Catholics aren’t hindering her right to her birth control in any way. All she has to do is get her money and her perscription and walk down to the local pharmacy. Done. Her rights aren’t being touched by any means; only difference is now she has to pay the fair market price for them. They won’t be subsidized by citizens who realize what they really are: not healthy, but cancer inducing, deep vein thrombosis inducing, chemicals that neuter the ingester. They’re not medicine, and it’s not a medical health issue.
  2. Regular birth control can be used to abort, the same as RU486, just take a bunch of them. It’s just overloading the body’s progesterone that does it.
  3. I think CNN with this election, is trying to also portray Catholics being of two camps: “Liberal Catholics” voting for Romney and “Conservative Catholics” voting for Santorum. …But I guess this has already been hashed over in this forum enough already.
…I hear about this fear of a “Catholic agenda”, that Kennedy had to deal with, I just wonder how tangible it really is in this day and age. Are they really concerned by our unity and increasing political voice? Are they really concerned about people that defend themselves with science and intellectual reasoning? Are they really concerned with a group of people that haven’t changed their beliefs and ways in two-thousand years and have seen empires come and go? Why would they be so concerned? Our enemy is Satan…

:coffee:
 
IOW, Cardinal and Archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, believes that the Obama administration is trying to divide the Catholic Church for political gain? Is that the gist of his argument? If so, I don’t agree with it although I do admire the Archbishop and agree with his and the Church’s view about the contraception issue. However, this unusually suspicious attitude some have that Obama is seeking to destroy the Church, and religion in general, reminds me of the victimhood status adopted by some Jews that every political action is either an explicit or implicit attack on their religious freedom, as well as being reminiscent of the Black attitude adopted by some in that community with respect to conservatives. While there has certainly been a history of anti-Catholicism, antisemitism, and anti-Black discrimination and persecution in the United States, it’s simply not the case that either liberal or conservative attitudes are always anti-something, except for the fringe elements which can be found on both sides of the political spectrum. I think it’s always appropriate to be vigilant, but not to the point of paranoia.
 
meltzerboy said:
IOW, Cardinal and Archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, believes that the Obama administration is trying to divide the Catholic Church for political gain? Is that the gist of his argument? If so, I don’t agree with it although I do admire the Archbishop and agree with his and the Church’s view about the contraception issue. However, this unusually suspicious attitude some have that Obama is seeking to destroy the Church, and religion in general, reminds me of the victimhood status adopted by some Jews that every political action is either an explicit or implicit attack on their religious freedom, as well as being reminiscent of the Black attitude adopted by some in that community with respect to conservatives. While there has certainly been a history of anti-Catholicism, antisemitism, and anti-Black discrimination and persecution in the United States, it’s simply not the case that either liberal or conservative attitudes are always anti-something, except for the fringe elements which can be found on both sides of the political spectrum. I think it’s always appropriate to be vigilant, but not to the point of paranoia.
Click to expand...
Everything Obama does is for political gain. It began long ago in Chicago. The training in subversion, the “community organizing”. The class warfare. The division. Obama is Alinsky-trained. Old Saul was the modern master of subversion. Obama has surrounded himself with Catholics that are 100% liberal and unfaithful to the Church. He is dividing in an attempt to conquer. He is forcing Catholics to underwrite sin. Think of this: No woman’s access to anything is being restricted - not one. Rather, it is a bald-faced attack on Church beliefs, making government superior to, and the controller of, religion. It is telling the Church what they must and must not do.

In light of your faith, I would think that this would shock you. While it is not the Warsaw ghetto all over again - it is much more sinister, happening more subtly, disguised as a “reasonable” step. There are a few other denominations fighting this, but most protestant denominations folded on contraception in the 1930s, and many others have folded on abortion since the 1970s. This is a frontal assault on the Catholic Church, and little else. And, it is being made to address what, exactly? A shortage of contraception? Not. An insufficient number of abortions? How many are healthful to a nation? What is the desired level of abortions? And, for what reasons?

But, our president and his regime are not doing their own bidding. They are fronting for the liar and the father of lies. From the Book of Job, we know that he roams this earth, and he always finds willing dupes to do his work.
 
Cardinal Dolon is correct.

“And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.”

Mark 3:25
 
So the archbishop thinks people disagree with the Church as a means to attack it. It is more sensible in my view to think that people simply disagree.
 
Hokomai said:
So the archbishop thinks people disagree with the Church as a means to attack it. It is more sensible in my view to think that people simply disagree.
Click to expand...
Just to avoid the modern secular penchant for marginalizing, let us agree that the United States Bishops are 100% in opposition to the mandate. Every single one of them. I cannot name the last time that occurred.
 
PatrickSanDiego said:
A couple things this brings to mind:
  1. I was watching some news blurb, a woman, holding a sign, said, “Keep women’s right to birth control!” …I was just thinking to myself, this is drowned in such inaccurate semantecs. Catholics aren’t hindering her right to her birth control in any way. All she has to do is get her money and her perscription and walk down to the local pharmacy. Done. Her rights aren’t being touched by any means; only difference is now she has to pay the fair market price for them. They won’t be subsidized by citizens who realize what they really are: not healthy, but cancer inducing, deep vein thrombosis inducing, chemicals that neuter the ingester. They’re not medicine, and it’s not a medical health issue.
  2. Regular birth control can be used to abort, the same as RU486, just take a bunch of them. It’s just overloading the body’s progesterone that does it.
  3. I think CNN with this election, is trying to also portray Catholics being of two camps: “Liberal Catholics” voting for Romney and “Conservative Catholics” voting for Santorum. …But I guess this has already been hashed over in this forum enough already.
…I hear about this fear of a “Catholic agenda”, that Kennedy had to deal with, I just wonder how tangible it really is in this day and age. Are they really concerned by our unity and increasing political voice? Are they really concerned about people that defend themselves with science and intellectual reasoning? Are they really concerned with a group of people that haven’t changed their beliefs and ways in two-thousand years and have seen empires come and go? Why would they be so concerned? Our enemy is Satan…

:coffee:
Click to expand...
Thank you for this post Patrick, I would like to thank po18guy also but I don’t know how to muliti quote:shrug: I like one person on this forum whose signature is similar to how I feel, I am not democrat or republican, liberal or conservative, socialist or communist, or any label the divide and conquer regime dreams up, I am a American Catholic, and I thank God for Cardinal Dolan, and all our Bishops, and our good Priests, and everyone in this good fight against evil.
 
catharina said:
Archbishop of New York: Obama allies attempting to divide Catholic Church

dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/archbishop-of-new-york-obama-allies-attempting-to-divide-catholic-church/

**Published: 9:29 PM 03/28/2012 **

"On Wednesday’s “The O’Reilly Factor” on the Fox News Channel, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the Archbishop of New York and a man considered the post powerful cleric of the Roman Catholic Church in the United States, leveled the charge that the Obama administration and its supporters are attempting to divide the Catholic Church.

Dolan said that the issue of contraception is being used as a political tool, and that its use is infringing on religious freedom.

“You are right on target,” Dolan said, addressing that the church’s position on banning contraception is unpopular with large sections of the American public. “It’s a tough battle because of that, and our opponents are very shrewd because they have chosen an issue that they know we are not very popular on and that is why, Bill, we have to be vigorous in insisting that this is not about contraception — it’s about religion freedom. And I don’t want to judge people, but I think there would be a drift in the administration that this is a good issue and if we can divide the Catholic community (because it’s already divided) and if one can caricature the bishops as being hopelessly out of touch — these bullies who are trying to achieve judicially and legislatively what they’ve been unable to achieve because their moral integrity was compromised recently. There is the force out there trying to caricature us, alright? But we can’t back down from this fight because it’s about religion freedom — it’s close to the heart of the democratic enterprise what we know and love and the United States of America is all about.”

Dolan dismissed the notion that there is a wall between church and state, saying that it isn’t the church itself that wants to be a force in American politics, but its members.

… ."
Click to expand...
Cardinal Dolan tears through the fat and gets right to the bone in this instance, doesn’t he? The administration is rhetorically sophisticated, and their media shills are almost always given free sway to frame any issue toward their own self- interests.

Kudos to Cardinal Dolan, and thanks to Fox for allowing him the forum to shine the light of truth on what has become a propaganda coup for those who oppose religious freedom in this particular circumstance, and for those who oppose religion conceptually and philosophically.

We need more effective counter-attacks such as this, if we are to turn the tide in our favor.
 
meltzerboy said:
IOW, Cardinal and Archbishop of New York, Timothy Dolan, believes that the Obama administration is trying to divide the Catholic Church for political gain? Is that the gist of his argument? If so, I don’t agree with it although I do admire the Archbishop and agree with his and the Church’s view about the contraception issue. However, this unusually suspicious attitude some have that Obama is seeking to destroy the Church, and religion in general, reminds me of the victimhood status adopted by some Jews that every political action is either an explicit or implicit attack on their religious freedom, as well as being reminiscent of the Black attitude adopted by some in that community with respect to conservatives. While there has certainly been a history of anti-Catholicism, antisemitism, and anti-Black discrimination and persecution in the United States, it’s simply not the case that either liberal or conservative attitudes are always anti-something, except for the fringe elements which can be found on both sides of the political spectrum. I think it’s always appropriate to be vigilant, but not to the point of paranoia.
Click to expand...
Hi meltzerboy. Good to see you as always.

While I can respect your point of view, those of us who lived
through the long obama years in Chicago are likely to agree
with Cardinal’s view of obama. Until the views of his “minister”
in Chicago were made public, it was easier for obama to duck
his head under a ‘Christian’ flag. In fact it came to light that his
minister and that ‘congregation’ were in full support of racism.
Only then, after the facts became public, did obama exit that
group. One would hope that NO ‘religious’ group would preach
hate yet obama’s Chicago ‘pastor’ did so on a regular basis.

obama is a case unto himself - far removed from the typical
liberal/conservative divide. He is an extremist, of the type
trained under the Alinsky banner and while in office (Illinois)
he gave endless support to the “need” for late abortions - the
type wherein a baby is killed after being half-born.

Figuring out obama’s ethics/values might present many questions
to those who have lived through his short political life. I remind you
too that most of the European Jews who were spared the worst of the
Holocaust in Europe were those who allowed their own suspicions
to guide them and fled their home countries asap.

Hyper-vigilance re obama is a good, imo, as a former resident of Chicago.
 
catharina said:
Hi meltzerboy. Good to see you as always.

While I can respect your point of view, those of us who lived
through the long obama years in Chicago are likely to agree
with Cardinal’s view of obama. Until the views of his “minister”
in Chicago were made public, it was easier for obama to duck
his head under a ‘Christian’ flag. In fact it came to light that his
minister and that ‘congregation’ were in full support of racism.
Only then, after the facts became public, did obama exit that
group. One would hope that NO ‘religious’ group would preach
hate yet obama’s Chicago ‘pastor’ did so on a regular basis.

obama is a case unto himself - far removed from the typical
liberal/conservative divide. He is an extremist, of the type
trained under the Alinsky banner and while in office (Illinois)
he gave endless support to the “need” for late abortions - the
type wherein a baby is killed after being half-born.

Figuring out obama’s ethics/values might present many questions
to those who have lived through his short political life. I remind you
too that most of the European Jews who were spared the worst of the
Holocaust in Europe were those who allowed their own suspicions
to guide them and fled their home countries asap.

Hyper-vigilance re obama is a good, imo, as a former resident of Chicago.
Click to expand...
Also remember the strong affiliation between Rev Wright, Obama and Fr Pflager (sp?) who is also a proponent of “Liberation Theology.” This is what Obama thinks of when he thinks of a 'good Catholic" someone who is basically a socialist hiding behind bits and pieces of the Gospel. As we know Blessed John Paul II had a word or two to say about “Liberation Theology.” Obama wants heretical Catholics who follow the Lefist views just as he likes Leftist Protestants like James Wallis (with whom I have had personal contact and this man is a political operator of the highest order) rather than someone like Billy Graham who actually has morals and standards that align with Christianity.

Obama may not be at war with HIS idea of the Catholic Church but he is at war with the Truth.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Also remember the strong affiliation between Rev Wright, Obama and Fr Pflager (sp?) who is also a proponent of “Liberation Theology.” This is what Obama thinks of when he thinks of a 'good Catholic" someone who is basically a socialist hiding behind bits and pieces of the Gospel. As we know Blessed John Paul II had a word or two to say about “Liberation Theology.” Obama wants heretical Catholics who follow the Lefist views just as he likes Leftist Protestants like James Wallis (with whom I have had personal contact and this man is a political operator of the highest order) rather than someone like Billy Graham who actually has morals and standards that align with Christianity.

Obama may not be at war with HIS idea of the Catholic Church but he is at war with the Truth.

Lisa
Click to expand...
obama is of the mindset of man-made truth and he would like everyone to follow his truth.
 
po18guy said:
Everything Obama does is for political gain. It began long ago in Chicago. The training in subversion, the “community organizing”. The class warfare. The division. Obama is Alinsky-trained. Old Saul was the modern master of subversion. Obama has surrounded himself with Catholics that are 100% liberal and unfaithful to the Church. He is dividing in an attempt to conquer. He is forcing Catholics to underwrite sin. Think of this: No woman’s access to anything is being restricted - not one. Rather, it is a bald-faced attack on Church beliefs, making government superior to, and the controller of, religion. It is telling the Church what they must and must not do.

In light of your faith, I would think that this would shock you. While it is not the Warsaw ghetto all over again - it is much more sinister, happening more subtly, disguised as a “reasonable” step. There are a few other denominations fighting this, but most protestant denominations folded on contraception in the 1930s, and many others have folded on abortion since the 1970s. This is a frontal assault on the Catholic Church, and little else. And, it is being made to address what, exactly? A shortage of contraception? Not. An insufficient number of abortions? How many are healthful to a nation? What is the desired level of abortions? And, for what reasons?

But, our president and his regime are not doing their own bidding. They are fronting for the liar and the father of lies. From the Book of Job, we know that he roams this earth, and he always finds willing dupes to do his work.
Click to expand...
👍👍👍
 
Dolan said. “And if we duct-tape the churches – I’m just not talking about the Catholic Church — if we duct-tape the role of religion and the churches and morally convinced people in the marketplace, that’s going to lead to a huge deficit, a huge void. And there are many people who want to fill it up — namely, a new religion called secularism – which would be as doctrinaire and would consider itself as infallible as they caricature the other religions doing. So to see that morally driven, religiously convinced people want to exercise their political responsibility, I think that is not only at the heart of Biblical religion, it’s at the heart of the American enterprise.”
Click to expand...
Right on the mark, again.
 
LisaA said:
Also remember the strong affiliation between Rev Wright, Obama and Fr Pflager (sp?) who is also a proponent of “Liberation Theology.” This is what Obama thinks of when he thinks of a 'good Catholic" someone who is basically a socialist hiding behind bits and pieces of the Gospel. As we know Blessed John Paul II had a word or two to say about “Liberation Theology.” Obama wants heretical Catholics who follow the Lefist views just as he likes Leftist Protestants like James Wallis (with whom I have had personal contact and this man is a political operator of the highest order) rather than someone like Billy Graham who actually has morals and standards that align with Christianity.

Obama may not be at war with HIS idea of the Catholic Church but he is at war with the Truth.

Lisa
Click to expand...
Re underlined?

I’ve never heard a word re Father and ‘liberation theolgy.’
 
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