Archbishop of New York: Obama allies attempting to divide Catholic Church

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catharina said:
Re underlined?

I’ve never heard a word re Father and ‘liberation theolgy.’
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Should have qualified “Black Liberation Theology” as with respect to his strong affliliation with Rev Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama etc. Spelling is apparently Pfleger not Pflager. He has been in an out of suspension due to his heretical views, speech and action.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Should have qualified “Black Liberation Theology” as with respect to his strong affliliation with Rev Jeremiah Wright, Barack Obama etc. Spelling is apparently Pfleger not Pflager. He has been in an out of suspension due to his heretical views, speech and action.

Lisa
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No.

Fr. Pfleger has not ever been suspended for “heretical views.”
He’s been suspended for questionable behaviors.

I have never heard of “Black Liberation Theology,”
other than your mention of it here.

Fr. Pfleger is in good standing with the Archdiocese of Chicago.
 
catharina said:
No.

Fr. Pfleger has not ever been suspended for “heretical views.”
He’s been suspended for questionable behaviors.

I have never heard of Black Liberation Theology,
other than your mention of it here.

Fr. Pfleger is in good standing with the Archdiocese of Chicago.
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A transitory state if you check history. But happy he has an ally in you!
Lisa
 
LisaA said:
A transitory state if you check history. But happy he has an ally in you!
Lisa
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Every Catholic priest in good standing
with Holy Mother Church has an ally in me.

Is that not the case for you?

PS - I’m a 66yr-old cradle Catholic.
I lived the history so need not check it.
 
catharina said:
Again, what is Black Liberation Theology?

Jeremiah Wright is best known for racist philosophy.
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Yes you are right and Black Liberation Theology is based on “blackness” as a quality is identified with victimization by institutional racism. The founder James Cone notably claimed that “white” Christianity was represented by those who supported slavery and therefore it was not applicable to blacks. He was unfortunately forgetting that it was “white” Christianity that also eradicated slavery with tens of thousands of “white” Christians dying in the process of the Civil War as well as the many whites who marched with Rev Martin Luther King, some of whom gave up their lives in the process. While some of the theories sound good, they stir up anger, hatred, bigotry and blame.

Liberation Theology itself is a Marxist, redistributionist and current life focused philosophy with salvation taking a back seat. The focus is more on institutional ‘sin’ rather than individual sin as the cause of oppression. Sad to say it was attributed to Catholics in South America.

Not sure if this has anything to do with the thread other than demonstrating what influenced Obama whose administration clearly has a “blacks can do no wrong” DOJ.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Yes you are right and Black Liberation Theology is based on “blackness” as a quality is identified with victimization by institutional racism. The founder James Cone notably claimed that “white” Christianity was represented by those who supported slavery and therefore it was not applicable to blacks. He was unfortunately forgetting that it was “white” Christianity that also eradicated slavery with tens of thousands of “white” Christians dying in the process of the Civil War as well as the many whites who marched with Rev Martin Luther King, some of whom gave up their lives in the process. While some of the theories sound good, they stir up anger, hatred, bigotry and blame.

Liberation Theology itself is a Marxist, redistributionist and current life focused philosophy with salvation taking a back seat. The focus is more on institutional ‘sin’ rather than individual sin as the cause of oppression. Sad to say it was attributed to Catholics in South America.

Not sure if this has anything to do with the thread other than demonstrating what influenced Obama whose administration clearly has a “blacks can do no wrong” DOJ.

Lisa
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Yes, I’m familiar with the notion of liberation theology

Btw, as I said “every Catholic priest in good standing
with Holy Mother Church has an ally in me.
Is that not the case for you?”

Also the priest you mentioned is named Fr. Michael Pfleger.
 
catharina said:
Yes, I’m familiar with the notion of liberation theology

Btw, as I said every Catholic priest in good standing
with Holy Mother Church has an ally in me.

Is that not the case for you?

Also the priest you mentioned is named Fr. Michael Pflegler.
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If you understood the concept then why did you ask? As to being Fr Pfleger’s ally…well no I’m not but then what does it matter? His behavior, disobedience and stirring up of anger amongst his followers, his threats to leave and take St Sabina’s with him, his support of various heretical views does not invoke the same respect I have for Cardinal Dolan for example.

During the intermittent periods of late when he has been in good standing then yes I respect his office. I fully expect him to ‘go off the reservation again.’ Sadly Ithink he will have too much pride to obey and will leave the Church. I am sure he has done many great things but a man should be judged in the totality of his actions…good and bad.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
If you understood the concept then why did you ask?

Again, I still have not heard ordinary usage of BLACK Liberation Theology and that is why I asked. As to being Fr Pfleger’s ally…well no I’m not but then what does it matter? **Yet we are all ONE in the Lord and Father Pfleger, in his preisthod is far more important to the life of the Church than you or I. **

His behavior, disobedience and stirring up of anger amongst his followers, his threats to leave and take St Sabina’s with him, his support of various heretical views does not invoke the same respect I have for Cardinal Dolan for example. Also I have no memory of the Church condeming Father P for heresy. Therefore I can not and will not do so either - if you can give me examples of ‘his condemned heretical views,’ do so.

Lisa
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Catharina are you satisfied with the info on BLT or do you want more? I am truly surprised you said you’ve never heard of this theory. It was quite an issue during Obama’s 08 campaign.

As to Fr Pfleger:
in 2010 stated there should be women priests and women bishops
threatened the owner of a gun store that “we will hunt you down like a rat…”
defaced signs of a business he disagreed with

I dunno, doesn’t seem like very holy behavior or speech. Fr Pfleger isn’t the first to call for female priests and he won’t be the last. But as he is very high profile, his words carry further than say the average Parish priest. As to the lawless behavior…what can I say? Not like any priest I’ve encountered. Yes I have seen priests who engaged in peaceful protests, or even those who went to the extent of chaining themselves to a fence or gate. Have not heard of other priests threatening bodily harm or being convicted of property damage.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Catharina are you satisfied with the info on BLT or do you want more? I am truly surprised you said you’ve never heard of this theory. It was quite an issue during Obama’s 08 campaign.

As to Fr Pfleger:
in 2010 stated there should be women priests and women bishops
threatened the owner of a gun store that “we will hunt you down like a rat…”
defaced signs of a business he disagreed with

I dunno, doesn’t seem like very holy behavior or speech. Fr Pfleger isn’t the first to call for female priests and he won’t be the last. But as he is very high profile, his words carry further than say the average Parish priest. As to the lawless behavior…what can I say? Not like any priest I’ve encountered. Yes I have seen priests who engaged in peaceful protests, or even those who went to the extent of chaining themselves to a fence or gate. Have not heard of other priests threatening bodily harm or being convicted of property damage.

Lisa
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I know this. If and when the Catholic Church declares a priest (or layperson)
to be guilty of heretical views, THEN you and I are free to do so also. Until then?
NO.
 
catharina said:
I know this. If and when the Catholic Church declares a priest (or layperson)
to be guilty of heretical views, THEN you and I are free to do so also. Until then?
NO.
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Oh I see. You aren’t really sincerely interested in a discussion. You simply wanted the opportunity to shake a cyber finger at me. I wondered why you kept asking questions where it was clear you knew the answer. Next time I won’t take the bait. Thanks for a good lesson.

Lisa
 
LisaA said:
Oh I see. You aren’t really sincerely interested in a discussion. You simply wanted the opportunity to shake a cyber finger at me. I wondered why you kept asking questions where it was clear you knew the answer. Next time I won’t take the bait. Thanks for a good lesson.

Lisa
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  1. I asked about Black Liberation Theology in all sincerity.
  2. The only “lesson” I’ve presented in one that has been mentioned
    many times on CA, namely this: It is not for us to accuse anyone
    of heresy. I’m sorry if my pointing that out is offensive to you.
 
LisaA said:
Yes you are right and Black Liberation Theology is based on “blackness” as a quality is identified with victimization by institutional racism. The founder James Cone notably claimed that “white” Christianity was represented by those who supported slavery and therefore it was not applicable to blacks. He was unfortunately forgetting that it was “white” Christianity that also eradicated slavery with tens of thousands of “white” Christians dying in the process of the Civil War as well as the many whites who marched with Rev Martin Luther King, some of whom gave up their lives in the process. While some of the theories sound good, they stir up anger, hatred, bigotry and blame.

Liberation Theology itself is a Marxist, redistributionist and current life focused philosophy with salvation taking a back seat. The focus is more on institutional ‘sin’ rather than individual sin as the cause of oppression. Sad to say it was attributed to Catholics in South America.

Not sure if this has anything to do with the thread other than demonstrating what influenced Obama whose administration clearly has a “blacks can do no wrong” DOJ.

Lisa
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good reply! 👍 i will never forget the footage of father pfleger mocking hillary clinton inside pastor jeremiah wright’s church during a service. i was embarrassed for him.
 
catharina said:
I know this. If and when the Catholic Church declares a priest (or layperson)
to be guilty of heretical views, THEN you and I are free to do so also. Until then?
NO.
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I’m thinking about this statement. I’m thinking about does it hold up under examination. Is this logic, although giving support to this priest, is it sound? Is it transferable?

If a man beats his wife, and he still hasn’t been arrested by the police, and you saw him do it. But, charges never stuck or were not pursued, is he to be respected as any man who respects his wife?

In the U.S. Governement that I worked in for some time, I saw true blue corruption, documented it, and raised the issue. But the U.S. Government has a culture of severely “beating down” whistle blowers. Was I supposed to consider these corrupt officers not corrupt until officially charged and punished? Never gonna happen my friend.

There were priests that did molest young boys, it was known, it was buried. In absolute truth are these priests still to be looked at as with God and the Church?

The Church is made up of humans, imperfect humans. Error can be on the perpetrator’s end, or the enforcer’s end. Either way, we must correct ourselves as best we can. If someone hasn’t been deemed as heretical, it does not necessarily mean he isn’t. And laymen have the right to point out his errors as anti-Magisterium. It was laymen who exposed the molesters.

Me. I stick to absolute truth. That’s why I love the Church, that’s why I am active in the Church. If there’s one among us, Father Pfleger, who has spoken counter to Magisterium, I don’t care if he’s high profile, he needs to be rightly identified as countering Magisterium, and his Faith to the True Church questioned.
 
catharina said:
  1. I asked about Black Liberation Theology in all sincerity.
  2. The only “lesson” I’ve presented in one that has been mentioned
    many times on CA, namely this: It is not for us to accuse anyone
    of heresy. I’m sorry if my pointing that out is offensive to you.
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And when a holy and respected priest tells us this…

wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/something-must-be-done-about-fr-michael-pfleger-in-chicago/

are we to ignore it and our own sensus fidei and gift of discernment as given to us by the HS? Altho your words are correct, your manner is very harsh and in your support of the dissidents, perhaps you would like to consider the harm and scandal being done to the body of Christ. Anyone not in alignment and submissive and supportive of the teachings of the Church attempt to divide it by their very action to affect change. I’m sure you know that we, as laity, have a duty at times to point this out.

And actually, I think the previous posts are right on target with the subject of this thread. Anyone not with us is an ally of the enemy - a soldier in Obama’s war against the Catholic Church. Divisiveness, as previously pointed out, is a tactic to destroy the very foundation of truth.
 
po18guy said:
What was this thread originally about? 😃
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I watched the interview with Cardinal Dolan last night. What an intelligent and humorous person he is. We are very blessed to have him as president of the USCCB. I especially liked his statement below:
Dolan dismissed the notion that there is a wall between church and state, saying that it isn’t the church itself that wants to be a force in American politics, but its members.
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The Catholic Church wants its people to be a player in the American politics. Twenty-eight percent of the population of the United States are Catholics, OK? And the Catholic Church, through them, you bet, wants to have a say in the direction of our beloved country,” he said. “To think that there is a Berlin Wall between one’s religious convictions and one’s political activity is crazy. It’s ludicrous. It’s not only non-Catholic, non-Christian, non-biblical, it’s also un-American.”
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Read more: dailycaller.com/2012/03/28/archbishop-of-new-york-obama-allies-attempting-to-divide-catholic-church/#ixzz1qbmvRfKz

This completely supports Rick Santorum’s take on JFK’s take that there is a separation of church and state.
 
Tigg said:
And when a holy and respected priest tells us this…

wdtprs.com/blog/2010/04/something-must-be-done-about-fr-michael-pfleger-in-chicago/

are we to ignore it and our own sensus fidei and gift of discernment as given to us by the HS? Altho your words are correct, your manner is very harsh and in your support of the dissidents, perhaps you would like to consider the harm and scandal being done to the body of Christ. Anyone not in alignment and submissive and supportive of the teachings of the Church attempt to divide it by their very action to affect change. I’m sure you know that we, as laity, have a duty at times to point this out.

And actually, I think the previous posts are right on target with the subject of this thread. Anyone not with us is an ally of the enemy - a soldier in Obama’s war against the Catholic Church. Divisiveness, as previously pointed out, is a tactic to destroy the very foundation of truth.
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The column you posted is from April 2010.
We are now in March 2012.

Fr P. and his dificulties have been addressed and corrected
by his own bishop. That’s the way things are today.

I am not in support of “dissidents.”
I am in support of Holy Mother Church,
most particularly here of Cardinal George.
Those who insist OLD news is current news
are more likely to bring the “harm and scandal” to the Body of Christ
 
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