Archbishop Pietro Parolin: Priest Celibacy is Open to Discussion

[GEddie]

The majority of instances of clerical pedophilia was homosexual pedophilia. Actually, in the majority of cases it was not pedophilia by clinical definition, i.e. attraction to pre-pubescent children. It was attraction to young men in their teens, i.e. homosexuality.

Celibacy creates an artificial, all-male environment, and such environment attracts male homosexuals.

Further, Church’s condemnation of “homosexual lifestyle” and gay marriage essentially means that a young gay Catholic is given choice between going to Hell and maintaining chastity. Some of these people, fearing that they will be unable to live in chastity, opt to join priesthood, sincerely hoping that it will help them in their struggle. So they do, only to find other people like them. As a result, you have an organization full of closeted homosexuals shouting condemnations of homosexuality.

This cannot go on much longer. There are two options (well, three):

(a) Accept the fact that we have gay clergy, but that would necessarily lead to revision of the current doctrine on homosexuality.

(b) Purge homosexuals from the clergy. The best way of doing this is by granting Holy Orders only to married men. This would be effective, as incidence of homosexuality among married men is quite low. Since celibacy is a disciplinary issue, no doctrinal revision would be involved. Yes, there would be some practical problems, mainly related to financial issues, but they are perfectly solvable.

(c) Do nothing and expect another child molesting scandal within 20-40 years. Next time however, the civilian authorities may not show the remarkable restraint they have exhibited this time. Expect bishops arrested by SWAT teams and charged under RICO act.

Or (d). Tighten the discernment process from the Church end so that young men living the “gay lifestyle” are not admitted to seminary; methinks this is already moving into place.

Your case b) total elimination of celibacy by REQUIRING that priests be married is not going to happen. Expect the Pope to relocate to Mecca first. Celibacy has too long a history in the Church and, despite the late 1900s crisis (not celibacy related), is useful to the Church: It eliminates issues with priestly families, eases the financial and logistical burden upon the Church, and most of all, provides a witness toward chastity. Remember, not everybody is married; no one is married their entire life; and, for those unmarried, our LORD’s commandment of chastity means no sex. Celibacy shows that it is doable and worth doing.

ICXC NIKA

 

[weller2]

Or (d). Tighten the discernment process from the Church end so that young men living the “gay lifestyle” are not admitted to seminary; methinks this is already moving into place.

Yes, it’s being done and it won’t work, because it fundamentally misunderstands the problem.

First, the pool of heterosexual men willing to forgo sex and love for the love of God is much smaller than the pool of homosexual men. Recruitment will amount to looking for a needle in a haystack. So either you will accept drop in vocations (which are already low), or you will let homosexuals slip in – and we’re back to square one. In contrast, ordaining ALREADY MARRIED men opens up a much larger pool of candidates. In other words, I’m advocating that we trade 1 full-time celibate priest for 4 married half-time priests – increasing an effective number of priests twice. Not only that, but people with life experience would make much better pastors then people with ZERO real-life experience.

That, or we forgo diocesian priests and leave everything to monks. Homosexuals happen there too, but the way of life reduces opportunities for abuse.

Second, the problem is not with people who choose “gay lifestyle”. These folks tend to move to NYC/SF/Amsterdam/whatever and hang out with people like them. They have no interest in Church. The problem is closeted homosexuals, those simply unaware of their own homosexuality and those who don’t accept their orientation. These people join the priesthood hoping that becoming priests would help them with their urges. In reality, the opposite thing happens, as they meet others in a similar situation. Result? The Sankt Polten seminar.

Your case b) total elimination of celibacy by REQUIRING that priests be married is not going to happen.

Extraordinary circumstances require extraordinary actions.

Expect the Pope to relocate to Mecca first.

No, I expect SWAT & RICO.

 

[janeway529]

It’s interesting to note that among the Eastern rites, the average age of a priest in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is 35, while their Latin Rite counterparts are twice the age.

 

[manualman]

First, the pool of heterosexual men willing to forgo sex and love for the love of God is much smaller than the pool of homosexual men. Recruitment will amount to looking for a needle in a haystack. So either you will accept drop in vocations (which are already low), or you will let homosexuals slip in – and we’re back to square one.

A nonsense assertion that ignores the first 1900 years of Christianity before our larger culture went into the gutter (read what St. Paul has to say praising the merits of celibacy in service of Christ). The John Jay investigation was done using actual sociological analysis methods rather than your pontificating. It found that the sexual abuse incidence of past decades directly tracked the overall society’s increasing sexual confusion between the 1930’s (the time western culture began to embrace contraception as a “good” thing) and the late 1980’s when the warning signs became far to obvious to miss anymore.

I’ve had the honor to know quite a few superb men who have gone to seminary in recent years. The needle in the haystack is not the man willing to be a celibate priest, but the parents willing to live an authentic and wholistic catholic life of witness to their children (no dissent, no moral defiance, no stubborn rationalizing and a strong devotion to prayer, sacraments, service, humility and a general worldview in which one seeks for God to change US rather than the other way round). Every guy I’ve known who has gone on to priesthood has come from a family where the faith was lived that way. It seems to be actually downright common when parents live a heroic witness of faith!

In short, the crisis of priestly vocations doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists because of the larger crisis in faith and faithfulness among nominal catholics today. Fix that first and the priests will come in droves. Good ones. Droves.

Until then, catholics are getting the priests we’ve cultivated. We’re lukewarm, compromising and hypocritical, so we get few priests and the ones we do get tend to suffer the same problems we do.

 

[catholictiger]

Let me through my :twocents: into this discussion

The Church doesn’t require celibacy because of pratical reasons, while those are good reasons to argue they are not the reasons that are behind the mind of the Church.

Note: this is off the top of my head so it may not be great.

The Latin Rite of the Catholic Church requires in the majority of cases for men to be celibate for the priesthood. The reason is that men who are called to be priests are called in a radical way to conform their lives to Jesus Christ. a Priest while a minister of the sacrament will be acting in persona christi. He will be an alter christus. The latin rite of the Catholic Church calls men who are to be priest to imitate Christ fully. Christ was a celibate and this is one of the many reasons priests are called to be celibate. Another reason is that the Church is the bride of Christ and because priests are alter christus they are also brides of Christ. When the bishop lays his hands on a man (who is a deacon) and prays the prayers of ordination that man is radically transformed into a spouse of the Church. One of the most profound reasons that priests should be celibate is because their spouse is the Church. Lastly this is a gift that Christ gives to men (and women religious) who are called to live the priestly ministry. I firmly believe that all priests who have correctly discerned the will of God have received from God the gift of celibacy.

Don’t get tied up in the practical reasons get into the theology behind the discipline it is deep and has the backing of hundreds of years of Catholic Tradition.

It doesn’t matter if having married priest would help the abuse scandal, would prevent homosexuals from sneaking into the priesthood, etc. Priests are alter christus another Christ. while on earth Christ lived a life of celibacy and in heaven he married his bride the Church. Priests are called to imitate Christ in that way as well because as alter christus the Church is the bride of all Priests.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Priestly celibacy has always been open to discussion. Nothing new about that.

 

[catholictiger]

In short, the crisis of priestly vocations doesn’t exist in a vacuum. It exists because of the larger crisis in faith and faithfulness among nominal catholics today. Fix that first and the priests will come in droves. Good ones. Droves.

From my own personal experience in seminary this is happening. There are droves of good men entering the seminary. We still have work to do but many seminaries are seeing record numbers sense high school seminaries went away. The seminary I just graduated from brought in temporary housing and students live in the monastery because there are so many men entering the seminary. My own diocese is having guys starting to pile in (note I don’t know if this is normal I’ve only followed the number of new men for 4 or 5 years now). The thing is though that these men are men of prayer, men of charity, men of intelligence. There is something brewing in the seminaries in this country and it really could have a tremendous impact on this country and the world in the years to come.

 

[catholictiger]

Priestly celibacy has always been open to discussion. Nothing new about that.

by the basic fact that it is a discipline but it’s not going to change.

 

[bsroufek]

As found in The Revelations of St. Bridget of Sweden:

Against those who would permit priests to marry, Bridget strongly objects, describing the torments in hell awaiting the pope who would give in to such demands, since the introduction of clerical celibacy was inspired by God and he would be very offended if it were to be repealed (7. 10). Against objections that priests in the Old Testament and in the early Church were allowed to marry, Christ says to Bridget:

If the priests of the Old Testament were permitted to have intercourse when they were not offering [sacrifice], it is not to be wondered at, for they carried the shell but not the kernel. Now, however, once truth has come and figures have passed away, one should apply himself to supreme purity, the more so as the kernel is sweeter than the shell (4.58).

 

[JohnVIII]

Defendantly agree with all those here who stated that celibacy should continue forever to be the rule for priests. When I used to be Eastern Orthodox I then would not have agreed. Actually now that I am Marcionite Christian I think it would be even better yet that they go even further, namely that priests should also even be castrated. I do realize, however, that this move would not happen in the Catholic Church because it involves a dogmatic matter as well. Nevertheless, it is a fact that all the clergy in the Alexandrian Church in the very earliest days were castrated.

If the pope did start permitting married priests the next step the liberal media will seek to tell the pope what he should do is to allow same-sex married priests. Basically, any conservative Christian Church is an enemy of the liberal media.

Peace!

 

[YoungTradCath]

Why do people really care that priests are celibate? Whose business is that?

 

[Crude]

Why do people really care that priests are celibate? Whose business is that?

The problem here isn’t the celibacy of priests per se - it’s the motivation.

If it’s entirely possible for a normal, healthy person to live a celibate life, then a whole lot of plaintive cries about the necessity of sexual activity go down the toilet. So the existence of a celibate priesthood - or any celibate people at all - is an embarrassment and a threat.

I come from a Byzantine Catholic rite. Married priests are no big deal to me. But the motivation behind the cry for married priests is often a rotten one.

 

[GEddie]

The problem here isn’t the celibacy of priests per se - it’s the motivation.

If it’s entirely possible for a normal, healthy person to live a celibate life, then a whole lot of plaintive cries about the necessity of sexual activity go down the toilet. So the existence of a celibate priesthood - or any celibate people at all - is an embarrassment and a threat.

I come from a Byzantine Catholic rite. Married priests are no big deal to me. But the motivation behind the cry for married priests is often a rotten one.

And the louder the yelling, the worse the motivation, it seems to me.

It was once the norm for Roman Catholic priests to be married. It could be again. But “keeping up” with a general society going down the WC is not a reason to change.

ICXC NIKA

 

[manualman]

… I think it would be even better yet that they go even further, namely that priests should also even be castrated. I do realize, however, that this move would not happen in the Catholic Church because it involves a dogmatic matter as well.

Jeepers, people think celibacy is a tough sell in this culture! Catholicism is trying pretty hard to encourage people NOT to mutiliate themselves in this day and age when it is so popular. I’m pretty sure this would be quite a counter productive move. (understatement!)

 

[Ruthmary]

Remember, whatever happens, this IS the 2,000 year old Catholic Church we’re talking about, many persecutions for maintaining the truth. Ultimately the Holy Spirit will guide her where she needs to go. Forty-five years ago, THE WHOLE WORLD thought the Catholic Church would give in and accept contraceptives, and that just didn’t happen. We’re paying the penalty now for the rebellion at that time. If we’re Catholic we follow the Church’s lead or suffer the consequences. We just need to realize that the wisdom of the Church under the direction of the Holy Spirit far surpasses the “wisdom” of the world. Jesus said, “I have chosen you; you have not chosen me.” If we love Him we follow Him no matter what, so what if it’s hard?

 

[Tarpeian_Rock]

Whatever else a married priesthood would or wouldn’t do, it would likely be a powerful antidote to clericalism.

 

[JamesCaruso]

by the basic fact that it is a discipline but it’s not going to change.

I think that’s a safe bet for now, but who knows what the future may bring?

 

[Yerusalyim]

Same old. Same old. The Huffington Post is definitely not a good source of information about the Church. The anti-celibacy crowd (in their most recent incarnation) have been around since the 1960s.

Peace,
Ed

I’m not “anti-celibacy” I favor choice. I think our orthodox brothers have this one correct. Married men should be allowed to be ordained…but single men who are ordained also take on Celibacy.

 

[JamesCaruso]

Remember, whatever happens, this IS the 2,000 year old Catholic Church we’re talking about, many persecutions for maintaining the truth. Ultimately the Holy Spirit will guide her where she needs to go. Forty-five years ago, THE WHOLE WORLD thought the Catholic Church would give in and accept contraceptives, and that just didn’t happen. We’re paying the penalty now for the rebellion at that time. If we’re Catholic we follow the Church’s lead or suffer the consequences. We just need to realize that the wisdom of the Church under the direction of the Holy Spirit far surpasses the “wisdom” of the world. Jesus said, “I have chosen you; you have not chosen me.” If we love Him we follow Him no matter what, so what if it’s hard?

I understand your point, but keep in mind that contraception is a moral question, whereas priestly celibacy is not. Jesus could have chosen only single men to be his Apostles, but he did not. He did, however, choose only men, and the Church has been faithful to that ever since.

We are seeing more married priests in the Roman rite now from the transition of Episcopalians into the Church. If these married Roman rite priests are able to successfully fulfill their priestly obligations and duties comparable to unmarried priests, there may be a slow growing acceptance of the idea of a married priesthood within the hierarchy of the Church. And this would be magnified should other Protestant sects begin transitioning back to the Church and the number of Roman rite married priests grows larger. Time will tell. What’s wise for today, may not be wise for tomorrow, just as it wasn’t necessarily wise in the time of Jesus.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Whatever else a married priesthood would or wouldn’t do, it would likely be a powerful antidote to clericalism.

What is this “clericalism” anyway? Can it be defined? Is it consistently demonstrated in the real world in such a way that any reference to it is reliable?

I am not saying clericalism doesn’t exist. I just mean that I think the vast majority of the whines about “clericalism” are examples of something people do best, which is to point fingers at devils that don’t exist, or in other words, it is a scapegoat.