The problem is that too often our brothers and sisters are getting the impression that they are being deemed the “disease” because they are edified by an objectively beautiful and sacred Form of the Mass. We all have to be very careful we avoid that, whichever Form we like or don’t like. That gives the Devil just the opportunity he wants to try to exploit. He’s had some success that way, unfortunately.
Ok, then your post makes sense.
As I’m pretty sure the majority of those who do attend the EF and the OF do.
Neither do I. Except we didn’t get what Vatican II actually said was to happen.
True. The problem is with the human component and the human different interpretation of how these documents of Vat II was to be implemented. e.g. even today, in the OF Masses around where I live, over the past decade as just one example of a period of time, it was/is rare to get the Mass as just the rubrics state it is to be celebrated. Why is that so hard? Why is it wrong to expect that we receive from our priests what the laws that govern the celebration of Mass stipulate - that and nothing more or less or changed?
Praiseworthy. Speaking only wrt the Liturgy, they also should know the history and facts of what occurred after Vatican II, what happened that was never sanctioned by Vatican II, know what the GIRM actually says, read the various documents, teaching, catechism, encyclicals etc, rather than go along only to find out later they’ve been misled and things are not as they ought to be.
Honestly, you need to stop using that word. Or if you can’t then please qualify it with the word SSPX to distinguish those to whom this is directed against, with those who today attend and love the EF. And at my parish 98% are in their early 30s, a lot with young families. These too grew up with the OF … there must be some good reason/s why they fled to the EF Mass. Abuses, or bland homilies perhaps?
Some music ministers, who should know better, have considerable difficulty making that distinction. As do some parishioners. But ultimately, they’ll all be on the wrong side of history, just like felt rainbow banners.
Give me an example of some of these gobsmacking abuses that we normal folk are failing to get?Emeraldlady:
True. The problem is with the human component and the human different interpretation of how these documents of Vat II was to be implemented. e.g. even today, in the OF Masses around where I live, over the past decade as just one example of a period of time, it was/is rare to get the Mass as just the rubrics state it is to be celebrated. Why is that so hard? Why is it wrong to expect that we receive from our priests what the laws that govern the celebration of Mass stipulate - that and nothing more or less or changed?
I too was naive in believing that priests always and everywhere served the Liturgy and "said the black and did the red’ with nothing added, changed or removed (including adding little jokes throughout or recounting some personal past experience of the priest), seeing as I attended one place where it was celebrated accordingly as it should. It was only until I went to Mass at various other parishes in my city, that I began to be ‘gobsmacked’ by the abuses I saw, and the approval & acceptance of those in the pews.
I really don’t believe this is a healthy way to pass on the faith to our children. Teaching them to put focus on the ‘letter of the law’ and looking for fault everywhere is something that I don’t want to be part of their faith. I think that care for the liturgy is a charism. Unless an ‘abuse’ is obvious to everyone without having a sound liturgical background, what is the point of endlessly drumming up discontent and causing doubt? Back in the old days when Opus Dei were the main liturgy ‘police’, they reported what they found to the Bishop but at least guarded against scandalising the general parishioner with gossip and public attacking. Things were dealt with as a process by people that had some soundness and prudence.Emeraldlady:
Praiseworthy. Speaking only wrt the Liturgy, they also should know the history and facts of what occurred after Vatican II, what happened that was never sanctioned by Vatican II, know what the GIRM actually says, read the various documents, teaching, catechism, encyclicals etc, rather than go along only to find out later they’ve been misled and things are not as they ought to be.
Are you implying I am lying about my experience?
Charming. With the implication being that I am not.
Of course I’ve seen Priests use their stories and analogies to relate Scripture to living life. Aren’t you just making your interpretation of Pope BXVI’s words the abuse? I’ve never known any Priest in my lifetime to do this during the Consecration though. That I would recognise as an abuse.Emeraldlady:
Are you implying I am lying about my experience?
If you personally have not witnessed, priests pausing whilst standing at the altar to relate a funny incidence/anecdote they experienced before continuing with the Mass, then you are blessed. To my shame and ignorance I appreciated this little addition which is clearly against Pope Emeritus Benedict instruction in R.S. of “any and every irreverence or distortion … be thoroughly corrected”.
I don’t get why you are gobsmacked by this to the extent of refusing to go to a Mass in any other parish.
If I was a ‘letter of the liturgy’ enthusiast and was bothered by an abuse, I would draw it to the attention of the local Bishop. I wouldn’t dream of using it as a tool to cause division publicly.
At the appropriate time I have no problem with this, but it did not occur at the start of Mass, nor during or at the end of the homily, nor at the end of Mass, but iirc just before we stood for the Our Father. So as you say you haven’t experienced it during the consecration - well neither have I thankfully.
Definitely not. His words are there in black and white for all to see/read. His meaning he made perfectly clear.
Neither do/am I. Please don’t attempt to point the finger of blame at me, bascially accusing me of sowing division publicly - after all it was you who sarcastically, and perhaps with a touch of ridicule demanded I provide proof - your words:
Just for the record - it was, he was instructed by his bishop to stop, the instruction was disregarded.
a wholly false and unjust allegation I might add.
Well if they are criticizing that which is not traditional, then they are criticizing a lot of which is not Catholic.
Exactly. This some of what I try to do in my Religion class. From things like stopping the handshaking when the Agnus Dei starts, to receiving on the tongue if they want and not feeling embarrassed about it, to knowing the beauty of Latin sung prayers, to silence in the nave. And my principal is right there with me!
I taught this, too, but I cautioned my students that I intended to give them ways of acting that are more in keeping with the rubrics, and certainly not making them into the police over what other people do.
I can say for my part I really don’t have strong feelings about which form of the Mass is the Ordinary. I only seem like a ‘hater’ to you because all the same names participate daily in anti Pope Francisism. Criticising and discrediting his authority to teach and guide. That to me is the biggest Catholic problem today. Any new Catholics or young people reading these threads I would just like to say to you… you don’t have to police Pope Francis. He is a gift from God with the authority and guardianship of the Holy Spirit. Listen to him and mould yourself under his missionary charisms. You will increase in faith, hope and love by being an obedient, faithful child of the Church.