Archbishop Vigano calls DC Archbishop a "false shepherd"

[TMC]

One single link to the letter or full interview would lend authenticity. I have googled everything, can only find LSN and some blogs.

LSN makes money by luring in people with extreme headlines. I refuse to participate in their revenue stream, so I won’t click on their links. If there is a thread here with a topic I want to discuss, I google the topic. If it is a legitimate news item other people will be carrying it. When it is not, I just let it go. I have been doing that for a while, and it has been nice not to read LSN, and to know I don’t contribute to them with my clicks.

 

[Randolph]

It was a peaceful protest in DC Monday afternoon that Trump chose to interrupt with tear gas and rubber bullets.

“Peaceful protest”??? St. John Church was burned!!! The rioters destroyed properties and vandalized Washington DC… What universe are you living in???

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[commenter]

Dolphin:

LifeSite news is as garbage as Church Militant

Without these ministries …

They aren’t “ministries”.

Much of the damage done in society and the Church since 1960 is caused by confusion in language.

When a word can mean almost anything, it ends up meaning almost nothing. Muddled language leads to muddled thinking. Orthodox Catholics are hindered in communicating genuine renewal because words have been used carelessly, including that word “renewal”.

This doesn’t mean the websites are good or bad.

 

[whatistrue]

“Peaceful protest”??? St. John Church was burned!!!

The church was damaged on Sunday. The protesters who were gassed on Monday were peaceful by all reports. Rioting is wrong, but protesting is not the same as rioting. And some people rioting does not mean it should be open season on anyone holding a sign or expressing a view.

What universe are you living in???

This one. You?

 

[Randolph]

The church was damaged on Sunday. The protesters who were gassed on Monday were peaceful by all reports. Rioting is wrong, but protesting is not the same as rioting. And some people rioting does not mean it should be open season on anyone holding a sign or expressing a view.

There is nothing wrong with peaceful protests. It’s a treasured American ideal. Most protests/protestors in the US in the past week have been peaceful. I am talking about violent rioters who destroyed businesses, buildings and cities. You need to realize that these rioters blended in with peaceful protestors to simply cause destruction and mayhem. Defend free speech and peaceful protests—not riots and destruction.

Law enforcement needs to protect people and cities from the destruction of rioters.

 

[whatistrue]

Law enforcement needs to protect people and cities from the destruction of rioters.

Absolutely. And that most decidedly does not include using tear gas and rubber bullets on people who are simply in the way of a photo op.

 

[Randolph]

Absolutely. And that most decidedly does not include using tear gas and rubber bullets on people who are simply in the way of a photo op.

I am adamantly against the use of tear gas, rubber bullets or any physical aggression toward peaceful protestors. The intent for Trump to walk to St John was to show strength and resolve against the rioters, and to restore peace and order. But I do agree that it was not well done and could be interpreted as a photo op. If given a chance to do it over again, I am quite certain that the use of tear gas would not be part of the plan.

 

[phil19034]

So we are agreed? Trump used dictatorial practices to oppose peaceful protesters just like the Polish gov did against Solidarity?

We don’t know that Trump gave that order. It sounds like it was the AG Barr, without Trump knowing that the park wasn’t already cleared

I do not really see what difference it makes if he planned To prevent peaceful assembly in the morning or just in the evening. These were tactics used in Poland as well, with tear gas etc as a backup.

If the park was cleared in the morning, like it was supposed to be, there would NOT have been no reason to shoot canisters, etc. They could have slowly asked people to relocate and back up.

In past (with past Presidents) the park has often been kept clear of protestors due to it’s proximity to the White House.

What does matter is the speech Trump gave about the need to dominate the protesters.

Fake news. Trump wasn’t talking about dominating protesters. He was talking about dominating the streets. AKA, having all the police out on patrol, not a fraction. Even Gov Cuomo critized the NYC Mayor for not having enough police on NYC streets. NYC said they had over 5000 police on patrol at the start of the riots. But the Gov said NYC has over 30,000 police offiers & that all 30,000 should have been working - no just 5000.

That is what makes him most like the communist Polish government. Going from that speech to the shrine of St John Paul II was offensive. Trump can be excused for not knowing about St John Paul; he just does not understand things like that. But it was right for Gregory to defend the memory of the Pope.

I think this is silly. Trump was scheduled to visit the St. John Paul II Shrine for a long time. The Shrine itself defended the visit against the Archbishop, who didn’t take the time to understand why Trump was going to the Shrine.

If the Shrine didn’t want him there, they could have rescheduled. The Shrine KNEW Trump was going to visit, and they welcomed it. At St. John’s, the church didn’t know & the National Parks Police failed to clear the path PEACEFULLY ahead of time like they were supposed to.

NOW - if you want to say that the St. John’s fiasco was a political error, I’ll agree. However, I think what really happened was that someone in the Executive Branch (either the White House or the National Parks Police) dropped the ball on by accident or on purpose.

 

[whatistrue]

But the Gov said NYC has over 30,000 police offiers & that all 30,000 should have been working

Which is obviously unsustainable. Does the NYPD even have enough vehicles and other infrastructure to accommodate 100% turnout for even a fraction of a single shift? Political talking point and setting up the blame game IMHO.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

But the Gov said NYC has over 30,000 police offiers & that all 30,000 should have been working

Which is obviously unsustainable. Does the NYPD even have enough vehicles and other infrastructure to accommodate 100% turnout for even a fraction of a single shift? Political talking point and setting up the blame game IMHO.

Agreed. I don’t think all 30,000 should have been working because that’s unsustainable, like you said. My point was simpy that Trump meant to “dominate the streets” NOT “dominate protestors.”

While his choice of words might have been dumb, what he meant was something similar to Gov Cuomo.

 

[EXdrinker]

People magazine does a vital service exposing which celebrities had affairs. It’s all rumor mill garbage

You compare celebrity affairs to the evil that went on in the church with boys being preyed on by pederast priests, covered up by complicit clergy, and the whole network of promoting like minded men while pushing good men out of seminary? Something isn’t quite right with your analogy. You might want to reconsider it.

 

[EXdrinker]

Whether CM, LSN, Focus on the Family, or Fox News for that matter are good or bad can be argued. But none are Catholic media according to Canon Law. Genuine Traditional Catholics support Canon Law.

You neglected to mention Relevant Radio. Are they catholic media? Do they cease to be catholic media in the diocese where the bishop has not given them permission to broadcast?

 

[Vico]

Any thoughts on this? I’ve only just entered the church but I’m not sure how appropriate it is to call out another leader publicly like this. The author of the article doesn’t like what Vigano did, but the article on LifeSite News seems to support it.

…

Rebecca Hamilton at Patheos states that:

“Vigano is careful to avoid making actionable claims about Archbishop Gregory. What he does instead is go off on the sins of previous Archbishops of the Diocese of Washington, DC.”

“Vigano doesn’t say anything directly about Archbishop Gregory”

 

[commenter]

commenter:

Whether CM, LSN, Focus on the Family, or Fox News for that matter are good or bad can be argued. But none are Catholic media according to Canon Law. Genuine Traditional Catholics support Canon Law.

You neglected to mention Relevant Radio. Are they catholic media? Do they cease to be catholic media in the diocese where the bishop has not given them permission to broadcast?

To my knowledge they are. As long as they are in union with their home bishop Ordinary, they are Catholic media everywhere.

Some bishops have disliked EWTN. My own bishop in the 1980s discouraged them coming into the diocese. But they did come and remain. They have always been in union with their home bishop.

A bishop might choose not to invite in a certain religious order, even if it is fully approved. There is a certain discretion.

 

[Dovekin]

Rebecca Hamilton at Patheos states that:

“Vigano is careful to avoid making actionable claims about Archbishop Gregory. What he does instead is go off on the sins of previous Archbishops of the Diocese of Washington, DC.”

“Vigano doesn’t say anything directly about Archbishop Gregory”

This is what Ms Hamilton really said:

Vigano doesn’t say anything directly about Archbishop Gregory — not one word — but he guilts by association and implies by innuendo all over the place. He lists Gregory’s predecessor’s sins in such a way that it seems as if he’s accused Archbishop Gregory along with them. But he’s tres careful to never flat-out say it so that he can’t be sued.

Quoting just the first words of the paragraph is improper when it leaves a false impression. She goes on to call Vigano’s letter a “steaming pile of sewage” and “an attack on the Archbishop’s governing authority in his diocese.” Finally she concludes:

This letter is a vicious, guilt-by-association, whistle-in-the-dark innuendo-based smear job calling for what amounts to mutiny among the priests and faithful in Gregory’s diocese against their bishop.

I am posting this only to correct the impression of Ms Hamilton left by the shorter quote. She is really quite clear in her disapproval, but it would be easy to be confused by the earlier quotes, or even think she approved of the letter.

 

[EXdrinker]

Some bishops have disliked EWTN. My own bishop in the 1980s discouraged them coming into the diocese. But they did come and remain. They have always been in union with their home bishop.

So, a group is not catholic media in one diocese but if they move a few miles away and that bishop supports them they suddenly become “catholic media”? Come on.

 

[Vico]

…

In my opinion, what I posted did not give a false impression, however if it did, it was not intended. I did include the link so that it could be read, which the posted quote should have created interest in doing.

 

[Dolphin]

A broken clock is right twice a day… just because a garbage source has one good find doesn’t make it reputable. Might as well use The Onion or Breitbart. It’s all garbage that every once in a while gets something of half value.

 

[TheLittleLady]

To be fair, a condemnation of the actions of a fellow prelate —even the ‘top’, I.e. Pope Francis—is not the same as condemning either the papacy itself, nor the man himself.

I never claimed the condemnation was of the papacy. If I condemn Pope Frances, it is condeming the man himself.

 

[TheLittleLady]

There is nothing wrong with peaceful protests. It’s a treasured American ideal.

If you translate to today’s dollar, the Boston Tea Party, something Americans celebrate, was protesters destroying $1 MILLION dollars worth of property.