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Marie
Guest
That is beautiful! Lucky you to actually be able to go there.
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Crusader
Guest
crimson dragon:
That said, a gothic structure would have looked foolishly out of place in Los Angeles, particularly in the location of the cathedral.
Some of the artwork inside the cathedral is stunning. My favorite is the 17th century Spanish Baroque retablo. Absolutely gorgeous – and historical to boot.
My dream for a cathedral in LA would have been a cross between Old Missions Santa Barabra, Carmel and San Luis Rey – only upsized to hold 10,000 people. Still, I would choose Mahony’s creation over a gotchic structure.
In the end I think the structure will be pretty well received by history.
I’ll begin by stating that Mahony blew it. There is only one style for a cathedral in Los Angeles and that’s the *Mission Style. *Anything else would have been a distant second. I am also amazed by its $200M+ price tag – although a great deal was spent to ensure the structure would last for a long time.
That said, a gothic structure would have looked foolishly out of place in Los Angeles, particularly in the location of the cathedral.
Some of the artwork inside the cathedral is stunning. My favorite is the 17th century Spanish Baroque retablo. Absolutely gorgeous – and historical to boot.
My dream for a cathedral in LA would have been a cross between Old Missions Santa Barabra, Carmel and San Luis Rey – only upsized to hold 10,000 people. Still, I would choose Mahony’s creation over a gotchic structure.
In the end I think the structure will be pretty well received by history.
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Crusader
Guest
It has kneelers. Just what did LA get around?
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Crusader
Guest
What’s so “Hollywood” about it? It looks more like a state or federal office building of some kind to me. Very subdued…
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Crusader
Guest
amarikidd said::crying: I’m laughing so hard I’m crying!
I’m going back to LA’s Cathedral at the end of June so maybe I’ll change my mind however I love the building but here are my complaints:
It reads like a federal building from the street.
Jesus in Tabernacle is banished to a small room off to the side (guess the architect decided to send HIM to His room…)
One Marian image shoved in back corner
Acoustics are haphazard
Niches surrounding the main church feel like mini-galleries, no intimate spaces to interact with God and Communion of Saints
Where are the stations?
Tapestries are GORGEOUS-some in Poster Print form, buy one if you can.
I like the light filtered through the Alabaster
Open Plaza spaces are great but only if they are PUBLIC(it’s. semi-private)
I’m gonna try to hit confession to experience the confessional. Confessionals in Churches are like Bathrooms in Restaurants in that it makes or breaks the design of the church for me.
I visited Eliz. An. Seaton in Ft Worth last year. Thats a new contemporary curch and I really liked the design.
The Most Blessed Sacrament is reposed in a side chapel – much like at St. Peter’s at the Vatican.
The acoustics are awesome in that building…
I too like the tapestries, but the one of Martin Luther DOES NOT BELONG IN A CATHOLIC CHURCH.
I think the “confessionals” blow.
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Marie
Guest
I have no clue. If you read all the post’s, I have stated, I have not been there. The question arose (a) from news reports I have read and (b)some people were complaining about it. I also read that people were not pleased with it as it was sparse.
As I have not been there and cannot tell from the pictures I ask questions. I apologize if that offends you. Certainly not my intention. I am glad you like it. That is two positive comments on it. Everyone has differing tastes.I can’t tell much from small pictures nor location as I have not been there.
I do have another question, and it has to do with another posters remarks and my curiosity (old ladies get curious you know) Are the Tapestries the stations of the cross or does the cathedral have them elsewhere.It’s a question young man…not a complaint.
God Bless,
Marie
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Borromini
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Crusader
Guest
I don’t really like it – particularly not for the $200M+ pricetag. However, I get a bit tired of those who bash it and feel we should have replicated St. Pat’s in LA. That would have been foolish. Most of these people have never visited the place…
The tapestries are not of the stations. I’m not sure if there is a set of stations in the cathedral.
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Crusader
Guest
Crusader:
Must be an ecumenical move…
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Wolseley
Guest
crimson dragon:
I think a lot of that can be found in the Los Angeles Cathedral. The Tabernacle is the worst—to me, it looks like something out of a sci-fi movie, with some sort of repulsive alien species embryo hatching out of an egg. The bishop’s chair looks like a winepress, and the statue of Mary looks like a Raelian priestess of some sort.
But, what can I say?
Crusader:
Admittedly, the Washington National Cathedral is not a Catholic church, but the idea of Darth Vader as one of the gargoyles on the outside of a cathedral is a little different, to say the least.
cathedral.org/cathedral/discover/darth.shtml
(Darth Vader voice) "Excellent, Commander! Apparently Edward Sövik is still alive—he may yet be of some use to us. whooooooosha"
I have to say that I am no fan of modern church architecture, either. Michael S. Rose’s book Ugly As Sin discusses how no matter what high-falutin’ ideas an architect has when he designs something that’s supposed to “represent” something, the common guy in the street is immediately going to associate what he sees with what it looks like to him. Thus we have building exteriors that look like cheese graters, tabernacles that look like bird feeders, and baptismal fonts that look like hot tubs.
I think a lot of that can be found in the Los Angeles Cathedral. The Tabernacle is the worst—to me, it looks like something out of a sci-fi movie, with some sort of repulsive alien species embryo hatching out of an egg. The bishop’s chair looks like a winepress, and the statue of Mary looks like a Raelian priestess of some sort.
But, what can I say?
If you think that’s bad, check out this link.
Admittedly, the Washington National Cathedral is not a Catholic church, but the idea of Darth Vader as one of the gargoyles on the outside of a cathedral is a little different, to say the least.
cathedral.org/cathedral/discover/darth.shtml
(Darth Vader voice) "Excellent, Commander! Apparently Edward Sövik is still alive—he may yet be of some use to us. whooooooosha"
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Crusader
Guest
Rose shows the limitations of his education as a bookeeper with his Ugly as Sin work. His latest attack is on the proposed chapel for Ave Maria College.I have to say that I am no fan of modern church architecture, either. Michael S. Rose’s book Ugly As Sin discusses how no matter what high-falutin’ ideas an architect has when he designs something that’s supposed to “represent” something, the common guy in the street is immediately going to associate what he sees with what it looks like to him. Thus we have building exteriors that look like cheese graters, tabernacles that look like bird feeders, and baptismal fonts that look like hot tubs.
I think a lot of that can be found in the Los Angeles Cathedral. The Tabernacle is the worst—to me, it looks like something out of a sci-fi movie, with some sort of repulsive alien species embryo hatching out of an egg. The bishop’s chair looks like a winepress, and the statue of Mary looks like a Raelian priestess of some sort.
But, what can I say?
If you think that’s bad, check out this link.
Admittedly, the Washington National Cathedral is not a Catholic church, but the idea of Darth Vader as one of the gargoyles on the outside of a cathedral is a little different, to say the least.
cathedral.org/cathedral/discover/darth.shtml
(Darth Vader voice) "Excellent, Commander! Apparently Edward Sövik is still alive—he may yet be of some use to us. whooooooosha"
He attacks the chapel for being too large (use your brain Rose – it’s a master planned community after all), too difficult to air condition (someone should explain the natural convection schema used at the Crystal Cathedral) and too difficult to keep clean (again, referece the Crystal Catedral.)
Rose abviously has no clue about architecture (and even less about mechanical engineering and facilty maintenance) and he has become painful to read.
Not all cathedrals are going to be like St. Pat’s – thanks be to God.
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Wolseley
Guest
Well, I disagree, but that’s okay. 
We all have our personal opinions and tastes.
Personally, I think 98% of the churches built since World War II are postmodern horrors that offer nothing in the way of lifting man’s mind and heart to God whatsoever.
People are still studying Gothic churches built in the 12th century.
How many people are going to be studying the Los Angeles Cathedral in the year 3000?
Will it still be standing in the year 3000?
Time will only tell, I guess.
We all have our personal opinions and tastes.Personally, I think 98% of the churches built since World War II are postmodern horrors that offer nothing in the way of lifting man’s mind and heart to God whatsoever.
People are still studying Gothic churches built in the 12th century.
How many people are going to be studying the Los Angeles Cathedral in the year 3000?
Will it still be standing in the year 3000?
Time will only tell, I guess.
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Amethyst
Guest
Honest question, not a snarky one, Crusader… are you taking into account the difference between the Florida heat/humidity and California summers? Because I really think people will pass out in droves from May to September unless the air management is PERFECT with all that glass.
BUT I am not an HVAC expert, just an engineer’s daughter who was brought up to be suspicious of architects.
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Wolseley
Guest
I don’t think I’d want to be in the Crystal Cathedral during a major earthquake.
By the time the glass stopped falling on you, what was left of you could be laid on a slice of Russian rye with some tomato, lettuce, and provalone cheese, and a light coating of mayonnaise.
By the time the glass stopped falling on you, what was left of you could be laid on a slice of Russian rye with some tomato, lettuce, and provalone cheese, and a light coating of mayonnaise.
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Marie
Guest
Crusader:
Martin Luther does sound…well, Odd! What do the others depict or did a miss a closeup of them on the website?
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amarikidd
Guest
Hi- some one please tell me where is the locale of Martin Luther Tapestry. Who shares his panel?
Church Design ABSOLUTELY affects my participation in the Mass Offering. See my Church Hopping question below.
Interesting note on Rose, my initial reactions to the
Catholic Crystal Cathedral of the South are much like Crusaders.
Here’s Rose’s Cruxnews commentary on alternative plans for Ave Maria (From ND School…Borromini?)
cruxnews.com/rose/rose-14may04.html
I’m gonna go read…
Borromini is correct in stating the Synogogue linear setup is Ark-Leader-Podium (vs. Altar)-Members. And all face East… but, the Sephardiem (that would be Jews of Spanish/Moor culture) have a concentric “Theatre-in-the-Round” set up, with the Ark-Reader-Podium on a Dias in the center.
The biggest growing population of new Catholics are in Africa. How do their Churches look? What kind of cultural design bits play into West African church design.
I’d also like to bring up another issue. This is more planning/urban facilitation than design but… I beleive that the 1982 code of canon law stated we as catholics can attend other churches in the diocese, not the specific parish diocese we are’assigned’ to.(someone correct me on this one). Anyhow, how does this church hopping affect our parishes? I know i don’t attend my ‘member parish’ very often, usually i go where i am comfortable with liturgy and the space. Sometimes i’m going to the old vietamese mass in the barrio. Generally I’m hitting an old church with lots of iconography and oleskool (novus ordo as it was intended) mass. I beleive lots of Catholics my age (post VII born) do the same. This will be a problem once the kids come around. …hmmm…
Church Design ABSOLUTELY affects my participation in the Mass Offering. See my Church Hopping question below.
Interesting note on Rose, my initial reactions to the
Catholic Crystal Cathedral of the South are much like Crusaders.
Here’s Rose’s Cruxnews commentary on alternative plans for Ave Maria (From ND School…Borromini?)
cruxnews.com/rose/rose-14may04.html
I’m gonna go read…
Borromini is correct in stating the Synogogue linear setup is Ark-Leader-Podium (vs. Altar)-Members. And all face East… but, the Sephardiem (that would be Jews of Spanish/Moor culture) have a concentric “Theatre-in-the-Round” set up, with the Ark-Reader-Podium on a Dias in the center.
The biggest growing population of new Catholics are in Africa. How do their Churches look? What kind of cultural design bits play into West African church design.
I’d also like to bring up another issue. This is more planning/urban facilitation than design but… I beleive that the 1982 code of canon law stated we as catholics can attend other churches in the diocese, not the specific parish diocese we are’assigned’ to.(someone correct me on this one). Anyhow, how does this church hopping affect our parishes? I know i don’t attend my ‘member parish’ very often, usually i go where i am comfortable with liturgy and the space. Sometimes i’m going to the old vietamese mass in the barrio. Generally I’m hitting an old church with lots of iconography and oleskool (novus ordo as it was intended) mass. I beleive lots of Catholics my age (post VII born) do the same. This will be a problem once the kids come around. …hmmm…
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amarikidd
Guest
This is why I love blogs… this IS useful info! Thanks!
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Marie
Guest
OK! I found the Tapestries. Now I am laughing myself silly. ER! Unless they don’t have the Martin Luther one on the website, I think you are mistaking Thomas More for Luther. Go to the North Gallery and left click on the picture. It brings up a pop-up and their names are on the Tapestry. The one I thought might be Luther is Thomas More.
Those are gorgeous. WOW! And everyone in the tapestries are wonderful Catholic Saints people.
Those are gorgeous. WOW! And everyone in the tapestries are wonderful Catholic Saints people.
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evodius
Guest
That’s what I was thinking too. I believe all of the tapestries are available for viewing on the website you are looking at. The last time I visited the Cathedral, I saw nothing related to Martin Luther. Perhaps I missed it, but I’m sure I would’ve remembered it had I seen itOK! I found the Tapestries. Now I am laughing myself silly. ER! Unless they don’t have the Martin Luther one on the website, I think you are mistaking Thomas More for Luther. Go to the North Gallery and left click on the picture. It brings up a pop-up and their names are on the Tapestry. The one I thought might be Luther is Thomas More.
Those are gorgeous. WOW! And everyone in the tapestries are wonderful Catholic Saints people.
I think one of the best aspects of the Cathedral is the Chapel of St. Vibiana and the Cathedral crypt.
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Crusader
Guest
Rose’s made himself look foolish with his latest article in Adoremus.
Even in Florida there are strict energy codes to meet. The buildings have to meet a certain efficiency. While I’m sure there will be some refrigeration used, it’s not a hopeless situation as Rose suggests.
My strong guess is this building will employ natural convection, with refigeration for peak loads. I’m also going to guess that the R-value of the glass being used isn’t all that shabby…
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