Archives Show Church Excommunicated Nazis

[Catholic_Press]

NEW YORK, APRIL 16, 2010 (Zenit.org).- An interreligious group trying to discover the facts regarding Pope Pius XII and his efforts to help Jews during World War II has announced the discovery of documents showing how the Church excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazis.

More…

 

[torch621]

This one ought to be in the NYT, but don’t expect it to.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

This seems a little suspicious. If Catholics who joined the Nazis were excommunicated it seems odd that even Pius XII’s defenders were ignorant of it until now. We’re not talking about ancient history here…

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

It is well documented also that the Vatican during World War II urged the Allies not to have black troops stationed in Rome because they believed such soldiers were pre-disposed to raping European women. At the very least, that does not show a very informed or enlightened attitude.

 

[Sonic]

This seems a little suspicious. If Catholics who joined the Nazis were excommunicated it seems odd that even Pius XII’s defenders were ignorant of it until now. We’re not talking about ancient history here…

I don’t think his defenders were ignorant of it. It’s his critics that seem to be ignorant of the fact. Critics often have to be shown physical proof… especially if they aren’t old enough to have lived through those times.

catholicleague.org/pius.php

 

[Sonic]

It is well documented also that the Vatican during World War II urged the Allies not to have black troops stationed in Rome because they believed such soldiers were pre-disposed to raping European women. At the very least, that does not show a very informed or enlightened attitude.

How about we keep things on topic and you quit trolling with unrelated controversial topics, Beau? You want to discuss your chosen topic, bring facts and take it to the Apologetics section.

 

[catharina]

How about we keep things on topic and you quit trolling with unrelated controversial topics, Beau? You want to discuss your chosen topic, bring facts and take it to the Apologetics section.

How on earth is it off-topic to add facts to what is known of Vatican actions during WWII?
Are you a brand-new Moderator? I didn’t get that memo.

 

[catharina]

Beau: 4600+ posts
sonic: 830 posts

Hmmmmmmmmm…
Yet Beau is still here without rebuke from MODs.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm …

 

[csuliman]

If they had excommunicated the Nazis, they sure did a lot to keep it silent. This seems similar to what many of the Germans, who sat silently by while millions were slaughtered, tried to say: “I was secretly against the Nazis the whole time”.

 

[catharina]

If they had excommunicated the Nazis, they sure did a lot to keep it silent. This seems similar to what many of the Germans, who sat silently by while millions were slaughtered, tried to say: “I was secretly against the Nazis the whole time”.

You do understand that most of western Europe was under Nazi control for the war years?
Then much fell to communism. Why would the Vatican release any reports that might
reveal the activities of “informers” who might still be at risk of their lives after WW II?

 

[catharina]

IOW, communism saw the Church as its greatest enemy.
Why would the Church reveal the identities of an Catholics of good will
who were forced to reside in the Eastern Block for their entire lives post-WW II?

 

[csuliman]

You do understand that most of western Europe was under Nazi control for the war years?
Then much fell to communism. Why would the Vatican release any reports that might
reveal the activities of “informers” who might still be at risk of their lives after WW II?

Why would you need informers to tell you that Nazis should be excommunicated?

“Pope Pius XII in 1939 instructed Cardinal Bertram to send a birthday message to Hitler: ‘warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany’ which was added, ‘fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.’ These greetings became a tradition and were sent every April 20th.” “Hitler compared to God/Jesus/Christians”, by Jim Walker]

So even after Czechoslovakia, Kristallnaght and the persecution of the opposition, the Jews, those who were born handicapped, etc, the Church send in its “warmest regards”.

“Pacelli became a crowned Pope on March 12, 1939 (Pius XII). The following month on April 20, 1939, at Pacelli’s express wish, Archbishop Orsenigo, the nuncio in Berlin, opened a gala reception for Hitler’s fiftieth birthday. The birthday greetings thus initiated by Pacelli immediately became a tradition; each April 20 during the few years left to Hitler and his Reich, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin would send “warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany,” to which he added ‘fervent prayers which the Catholics in Germany are sending to heaven on their altars’.” [Cornwell, John, Hitler’s Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, Viking, 1999, p. 209]

Adolf Hitler died a Catholic in good standing within the Catholic Church, was never excommunicated, and was supported by the Vatican even after the war! Rome established and operated an escape route through Italy for former Nazi officials that has become known as the “Vatican Rat Lines” “Unholy Trinity”, by Mark Aarons and John Loftus]

 

[catharina]

Why would you need informers to tell you that Nazis should be excommunicated?

So even after Czechoslovakia, Kristallnaght and the persecution of the opposition, the Jews, those who were born handicapped, etc, the Church send in its “warmest regards”.

It would be so lovely (and SO very simple) if you accepted the fact that much of the Western World, including the USA, did not KNOW of the atrocities against the Jews until after the camps were liberated (1945). Even among much of American Jewry, the extent of the horrors remained unnamed and unknown until the war ended. Do you imagine that folks were shooting notes and phone calls back and forth on war activities DURING WWII? They weren’t.

 

[cubalibre]

If they had excommunicated the Nazis, they sure did a lot to keep it silent. This seems similar to what many of the Germans, who sat silently by while millions were slaughtered, tried to say: “I was secretly against the Nazis the whole time”./QUOTE It doesn’t seem similar at all. Pope Pius Xll was active in saving Jews from Nazi persecution as has been documented by the likes of Rabbi David Dalin or University of Mississippi professor, Richard Rychlak. The fact that historians critical to Pope Pius Xll have not even bothered to look at the available historical record speaks more about their scholarship than Pope Pius Xll and the Catholic Church.

 

[catharina]

.

:clapping:

It should be so obvious that the good done by many faithful in Europe was done in SECRECY.
It was essential to the times if you planned to do more good again - the next day.

 

[Sonic]

How on earth is it off-topic to add facts to what is known of Vatican actions during WWII?

Ad hominem statements without proof and totally unrelated to the topic stated above are not facts. I honestly don’t see how introducing a statement about racial segregation has anything to do with a news article dealing with new evidence proving the excommunication of the Nazis during WW2.

It is well documented also that the Vatican during World War II urged the Allies not to have black troops stationed in Rome because they believed such soldiers were pre-disposed to raping European women. At the very least, that does not show a very informed or enlightened attitude.

Now, you show me in the OP article where there is any information related to Beau’s statement quoted above.

 

[catharina]

Ad hominem statements without proof and totally unrelated to the topic stated above are not facts. I honestly don’t see how introducing a statement about racial segregation has anything to do with a news article dealing with new evidence proving the excommunication of the Nazis during WW2.

Now, you show me in the OP article where there is any information related to the Beau’s statement above.

Article states the Vatican excommunicated Nazis durin WW II.
Some seem to doubt that fact.
Backing that suspicion could be other points of history, perhaps
notes of racism noticed in Vatican acticities during WW I(I.

Hey - any time you need help in comprehension, ask again…

(Also hey - Think your post to Beau was a bit ATAGONISTIC?)

Keep on smiling.

 

[catharina]

Now off to work for me.

 

[Beau_Ouiville]

How about we keep things on topic and you quit trolling with unrelated controversial topics, Beau? You want to discuss your chosen topic, bring facts and take it to the Apologetics section.

I thought we were discussing what is contained about the war in Vatican archives. Silly me.

You did notice I did not bring up this fact in the Pius XII threads, huh?

 

[Sonic]

I thought we were discussing what is contained about the war in Vatican archives. Silly me.

At least you have the decency to admit your mistake.

You did notice I did not bring up this fact in the Pius XII threads, huh?

To which thread were you referring? Perhaps it would have been more on topic to place the statement there. This article was dealing with documents concerning events from the pre-war period.

Archives Show Church Excommunicated Nazis

Foundation Continues Restoring Reputation of Pius XII

NEW YORK, APRIL 16, 2010 (Zenit.org).- An interreligious group trying to discover the facts regarding Pope Pius XII and his efforts to help Jews during World War II has announced the discovery of documents showing how the Church excommunicated Catholics who joined the Nazis.

The New-York based Pave the Way Foundation said that its representative Michael Hesemann found a large series of documents from 1930 to 1933.

The documents indicate that any Catholic who joined the Nazi party, wore the uniform or flew the swastika flag would no longer be able to receive the sacraments.

This policy set three years before Hitler was elected chancellor made clear that the teachings of the Church were incompatible with Nazi ideology.

“The documents clearly show an ideological war between the Catholic Church and National Socialism already in the pre-war decade," Hesemann explained. “The German bishops and the Roman Curia considered the Nazi doctrine not only as incompatible with the Christian faith, but also as hostile to the Church and dangerous to human morals, even more than Communism.”

Among the documents is a handwritten letter from a leading member of the Nazis, Hermann Goering, requesting a meeting with Cardinal Eugenio Pacelli (the future Pius XII), which was flatly refused.

There are also documents asking for a removal of the excommunication, which was also denied.

Gary Krupp, president of Pave the Way, characterized these documents as “very significant.”

“Michael Hesemann has been diligent in researching the open archives and has been discovering new important documents with every visit,” he said. “His research tells a very different story of Eugenio Pacelli or Pope Pius XII than is commonly known.”

When asked why this information is not currently known by many historians, Pave the Way chairman Elliot Hershberg noted that "according to the archives sign-in sheets, most of these historians and scholars have simply not come to the open archives to research 65% of Pacelli’s ministry.”

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