Arctic ice melt could trigger uncontrollable climate change at global level

[lynnvinc]

here’s something – “Scientists Say 2016 Is Hottest Year Ever Recorded”

ecowatch.com/2016-hottest-year-on-record-2176895643.html?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=6b9b2e1d1f-MailChimp+Email+Blast&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-6b9b2e1d1f-85957569

 

[ucfengr]

I think denialists lobbing death threats at the small children of climate scientists is also bad, It’s wrong to kill atheists & their children, whether thru murder, pushing them to suicide, or thru the knock-on effects of CC.

We are all in the same boat…sinking. We should have compassion for each other, no matter what a person’s beliefs.

I know several climate scientists, but don’t know their religious beliefs, except one who is Adventist (his wife is Catholic, as are his children & grandchildren), and two are Evangelical.

And they all are extremely concerned about the impact of CC on their and others’ children & grandchildren’s future.

Can’t we at least turn off lights not in use & the many other things that save money or don’t cost, at least for the sake of the future generations.

I think it’s critical that we as Catholics recognize that every time we leave a light on in a room we’re not in, we are literally murdering people. Every time you leave your car running in the McDonald’s drive-thru, you are literally killing people. Every instance of leaving the refrigerator door open makes you a murderer. I know we as Catholics should oppose the death penalty, but wouldn’t an exception be appropriate for people driving SUVs?

 

[dmelosi]

Sorry I thought that you were supporting the statement.
Did you intentionally omit the non-religious portion?
Wasn’t relevant to the overstatement.

Your omission is very relevant to me in this thread. You misstated as if the post had nothing to do with non-religious, but only post graduates. I asked if that was deliberate?

I really am trying to understand the whole man made global warming thing, but the consistent factor that I find when leaning on who to believe is that those who support it,do it at all costs, even at the expense of “omitting” important parts of the arguments. The most important problem to me is that the party of death is the one perpetuating the entire global warming. Man made global warming may be more of a party issue than abortion. That is why I am skeptical, but trying to keep an open mind.

The omission by you was relevant.

 

[dmelosi]

here’s something – “Scientists Say 2016 Is Hottest Year Ever Recorded”

ecowatch.com/2016-hottest-year-on-record-2176895643.html?utm_source=EcoWatch+List&utm_campaign=6b9b2e1d1f-MailChimp+Email+Blast&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-6b9b2e1d1f-85957569

newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/pj-gladnick/2016/01/25/time-2016-expected-be-warmest-year-record

Your comment leaves out the part about hottest year since temperatures have been recorded from 1880 on.

I am curious how much hotter?

 

[lynnvinc]

I think it’s critical that we as Catholics recognize that every time we leave a light on in a room we’re not in, we are literally murdering people. Every time you leave your car running in the McDonald’s drive-thru, you are literally killing people. Every instance of leaving the refrigerator door open makes you a murderer. I know we as Catholics should oppose the death penalty, but wouldn’t an exception be appropriate for people driving SUVs?

hahahahaha

But I am opposed to the death penalty – even for those who forgot to turn off the light (as I am prone to do now & then)

 

[lynnvinc]

newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/pj-gladnick/2016/01/25/time-2016-expected-be-warmest-year-record

Your comment leaves out the part about hottest year since temperatures have been recorded from 1880 on.

I am curious how much hotter?

No, it didn’t leave it out – it specifies “recorded” & 1880s is when they began recording temp globally at a satisfactory level.

Last year was some .9C hotter than average (averaged over the past century), so I assume it will be about that, maybe a tad hotter - the final science on it usually comes out in Feb or March, as it takes time for the final analysis.

Of course, .9C is not the worry (even tho some CC-related harms are happening now), but the positive feedbacks & warming “in the pipes,” even if we were to start thinking about mitigating, instead of heal-dragging.

If people are interested in this topic, it would be a good idea to study it – not from denialist non-science nonsense websites, but from real working climate scientists. IF people are interested in getting at the facts.

 

[lynnvinc]

"Global warming data that riled doubters is confirmed "
msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/global-warming-data-that-riled-doubters-is-confirmed/ar-BBxTUyD?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

A new independent study shows no pause in global warming, confirming a set of temperature readings adjusted by U.S. government scientists that some who reject mainstream climate science have questioned.

The adjustments , made by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration in 2015 to take into account changes in how ocean temperatures have been measured over the decades, riled a House committee and others who claimed the changes were made to show rising temperatures. The House Science Committee subpoenaed the agency’s scientists and then complained that NOAA wasn’t answering its requests quickly enough.

The new international study looked at satellite data, readings from buoys and other marine floats for ocean temperatures. Each measurement system independently showed the same 20 years of increase in temperatures that NOAA found: about two-tenths of a degree Fahrenheit per decade since 2000…

see the study - advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

 

[josh987654321]

"Global warming data that riled doubters is confirmed "
msn.com/en-us/weather/topstories/global-warming-data-that-riled-doubters-is-confirmed/ar-BBxTUyD?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread anymore, (got away on me) however, I just checked that link, and I notice it’s a MSN news feed, which comes up every time I log out of my email, and they are an absolute joke. I would strongly recommend disregarding anything from a ninemsn news feed lol. (Or at the very least with a grain of salt).

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread anymore, (got away on me) however, I just checked that link, and I notice it’s a MSN news feed, which comes up every time I log out of my email, and they are an absolute joke. I would strongly recommend disregarding anything from a ninemsn news feed lol. (Or at the very least with a grain of salt).

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Other than the fact that MSN does not say what you want them to say, why should they be disregarded? Do you think the facts they quote are factually false? If so, which ones?

 

[dmelosi]

Other than the fact that MSN does not say what you want them to say, why should they be disregarded? Do you think the facts they quote are factually false? If so, which ones?

I took it that the comment was in reference to the earlier comment…and means that MSN is a nonsense website.

If people are interested in this topic, it would be a good idea to study it – not from denialist non-science **nonsense **websites

 

[zz912]

I think it’s critical that we as Catholics recognize that every time we leave a light on in a room we’re not in, we are literally murdering people. Every time you leave your car running in the McDonald’s drive-thru, you are literally killing people. Every instance of leaving the refrigerator door open makes you a murderer. I know we as Catholics should oppose the death penalty, but wouldn’t an exception be appropriate for people driving SUVs?

Sadly, that is the level of hysterics one must rise to so one can justify supporting pro-abortion politicians…

 

[dvdjs]

Your omission is very relevant to me in this thread. You misstated as if the post had nothing to do with non-religious, but only post graduates. I asked if that was deliberate?

I really am trying to understand the whole man made global warming thing, but the consistent factor that I find when leaning on who to believe is that those who support it,do it at all costs, even at the expense of “omitting” important parts of the arguments. The most important problem to me is that the party of death is the one perpetuating the entire global warming. Man made global warming may be more of a party issue than abortion. That is why I am skeptical, but trying to keep an open mind.

The omission by you was relevant.

It may have been relevant to you, but I made clear, I was interested, in my post, in responding to a particular claim of another poster. That claim, IMO , was a gross overstatement that needed correction. The structure of your post - what you quoted - led me to believe that you were offering support for gross overstatement. If that belief was mistaken, I have said and will repeat: I am sorry for that.

At the same time, if you want to know about global warming, go to the link at NOAA, NASA, etc. given in this thread. If you have questions about the details, ask. Look with an open mind. There is no reason to speculate that the scientists working on this problem are political partisans or working an agenda of population control, or gaming the system for cash. Or omitting things - which after all you did in your quoting another poster, and which led to the confusion.

The scientists are interested in the science. Look at the science.

 

[lynnvinc]

Sorry, I haven’t been following this thread anymore, (got away on me) however, I just checked that link, and I notice it’s a MSN news feed, which comes up every time I log out of my email, and they are an absolute joke. I would strongly recommend disregarding anything from a ninemsn news feed lol. (Or at the very least with a grain of salt).

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Then you can go directly to the study – which I also linked above.
See advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207

ABSTRACT: Sea surface temperature (SST) records are subject to potential biases due to changing instrumentation and measurement practices. Significant differences exist between commonly used composite SST reconstructions from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Extended Reconstruction Sea Surface Temperature (ERSST), the Hadley Centre SST data set (HadSST3), and the Japanese Meteorological Agency’s Centennial Observation-Based Estimates of SSTs (COBE-SST) from 2003 to the present. The update from ERSST version 3b to version 4 resulted in an increase in the operational SST trend estimate during the last 19 years from 0.07° to 0.12°C per decade, indicating a higher rate of warming in recent years. We show that ERSST version 4 trends generally agree with largely independent, near-global, and instrumentally homogeneous SST measurements from floating buoys, Argo floats, and radiometer-based satellite measurements that have been developed and deployed during the past two decades. We find a large cooling bias in ERSST version 3b and smaller but significant cooling biases in HadSST3 and COBE-SST from 2003 to the present, with respect to most series examined. These results suggest that reported rates of SST warming in recent years have been underestimated in these three data sets.

I also don’t rely solely on news sources, since they sometimes get things wrong or sensational them beyond the actual studies. OTOH, scientific studies are by nature quite reticent in their claims & lack the policy-related side of how something might negatively impact humans.

OTOH, the media, whether mainstream or political, has grossly ignored climate change over the past 27 years, or has brought it up as debatable, even after 95% confidence was reached on it in 1995. I remember a Nightline in 1995 (“Is Science for Sale?” about CC) in which they did that; Texaco was the sponsor. I wrote to Koppel that if they were going to discuss CC, at least they should not have a fossil fuel company sponsoring that episode.

 

[faithsmind]

I think it’s critical that we as Catholics recognize that every time we leave a light on in a room we’re not in, we are literally murdering people. Every time you leave your car running in the McDonald’s drive-thru, you are literally killing people. Every instance of leaving the refrigerator door open makes you a murderer. I know we as Catholics should oppose the death penalty, but wouldn’t an exception be appropriate for people driving SUVs?

I think it’s important to carpool and buy efficient cars, etc.
But looking at the bigger picture…

Why aren’t these green movements AT ALL concerned or more aware of an entire society built upon the petrol dollar? Wouldn’t you think it might be important to take our currency value off one of the largest contributors of greenhouse gases?

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Even just the processing of this fuel is a HUGE contributor. And yet, NO ONE brings up the petrol dollar. I thinks that’s fishy, personally. We need to remove our money off of this manipulated standard and get it back to gold. But that would mean it would require some accountability on the government’s part. I wait, I meant the Federal Reserve’s part- a private group of individuals who control the government’s money- a group that is out of reach of The People’s vote.

 

[lynnvinc]

I think it’s important to carpool and buy efficient cars, etc.
But looking at the bigger picture…

Why aren’t these green movements AT ALL concerned or more aware of an entire society built upon the petrol dollar? Wouldn’t you think it might be important to take our currency value off one of the largest contributors of greenhouse gases?
…

Even just the processing of this fuel is a HUGE contributor. And yet, NO ONE brings up the petrol dollar. I thinks that’s fishy, personally. We need to remove our money off of this manipulated standard and get it back to gold. But that would mean it would require some accountability on the government’s part. I wait, I meant the Federal Reserve’s part- a private group of individuals who control the government’s money- a group that is out of reach of The People’s vote.

Are you referring to the oil dollars earned by exporters (OPEC, Russia) that get invested back into, say, the US, with which they can then use to buy our government & other institutions? The revolving door of corruption.

I do know both parties & esp Republicans in Texas are bought & paid for by oil interests, & the public sort of goes along with that, including CC denial, bec they are running scared that their lifestyles will suffer – I’m thinking esp the poor in rich coutries like ours who don’t have surplus to sacrifice.

It is interesting that Bill Clinton & Bush Sr received about the same campaign financing in 1992 from big oil – which didn’t care a fig about abortion or soc justice platforms, but just wanted a door into the Oval Office.

Anyway that’s partly why I was for Jerry Brown in 1992 & Bernie this time – they seemed somewhat less corrupted & corruptible, & much more willing to address serious environmental justice issues.

The media are also bought & paid for by big oil & other interests (& education & the Church to some extent) – which is why they didn’t cover Bernie hardly at all & slammed Jerry Brown with “Governor Moonbeam” – a term coined by Mike Royko of the Chicago Trib & propagated thru-out the various media as if the people had come up with it.

If you have some solutions for getting us out of this trap, let us know, so maybe we can get out of this before CC is locked into great future harm.

 

[lynnvinc]

I think it’s important to carpool and buy efficient cars, etc.
But looking at the bigger picture…

Why aren’t these green movements AT ALL concerned or more aware of an entire society built upon the petrol dollar? Wouldn’t you think it might be important to take our currency value off one of the largest contributors of greenhouse gases?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Greenhouse_Gas_by_Sector.png
…

I like your charts–which show how the various GHG emissions are created in many ways by many sectors. That gives us a better idea on how & where to reduce (like everywhere), & there is a lot individuals, families, businesses, schools, churches, etc can do, despite resistance from the powers-that-be.

Reduce, Reuse, Recycle are the first ways, & in that order of importance.

Then there are solutions like going organic as much as possible, bec that produces less nitrous oxide (note that is a biggy GHG mainly in the ag sector), and organic methods are also good for soil retention, so as not to have the synthetic fertilizers drain into water bodies, leading to severe algae bloom & depletion of oxygen, killing off sea life.

As mentioned before, too bad for us lazy-bones there is no silver bullet, but OTOH it is exciting that all of us can pitch in, no matter how poor or how young or old, & come up with solutions. “Now is the time for all good people to come to the aid of their planet.”

Here is a thread I just created for people to give suggestions for solutions: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14387215#post14387215

 

[lynnvinc]

…Every time you leave your car running in the McDonald’s drive-thru, you are literally killing people…

So here’s a solution, go to Burger King instead, order their veggie burger, & turn off the engine while waiting in the drive-thru

And have the satisfaction of knowing you’ll be reducing your contributions to harming people and others of God’s good creation.

It might also be better for your own health, if your cholesterol is a bit high, like mine; and those benzene fumes from keeping the engine in are also harmful to health.

 

[faithsmind]

**Are you referring to the oil dollars earned by exporters (OPEC, Russia) that get invested back into, say, the US, with which they can then use to buy our government & other institutions? The revolving door of corruption.
**

Yes I am,and yes, it’s corrupt… And this is why most countries, namely Russia, want to get off of this system, which is also why petrodollars are losing their worldwide weight of trade. Here is a larger explanation of the petrodollar:

… in 1974 an agreement between Saudi Arabia and the United States set the stage for the petrodollar. The agreement was for Saudi oil exports to be priced in U.S. dollars in exchange for U.S. military support, weapons, and protection from Israeli attacks. The Saudi royal family promptly agreed to the arrangement and, by doing so, started a wave of oil being priced in U.S. currency in exchange for U.S. benefits. By 1975, all oil-producing OPEC nations had hopped on board, sending the U.S. dollar to an all-time high. This artificial demand sent the U.S. economy soaring, and it continues today but with the petrodollar as its foundation. As the petrodollar system comes into question by Saudi Arabia, the value of the U.S. dollar and economy are at stake.

Source: gcml.org/the-petrodollar-the-multi-trillion-dollar-conversation/

The problem is that most people don’t seem to understand the petrodollar, and I believe, due to corruption, that’s the way the people who control things would like to keep it.

And perhaps this is why the green movements never seem to EVER mention oil processing and the problem with USD petrodollar greens (and isn’t it ironic that it’s called a “green” movement???) but always come to refocus the blame on the individual’s fault, and the need to reduce “footprints”, meanwhile overly politicizing the movement and therefore dividing the American people on the realities of corruption. If they really want to induce a movement of peace, health, and safety, then educating others on the realities of the corruption of the petrodollar is first and foremost.

 

[lynnvinc]

…And perhaps this is why the green movements never seem to EVER mention oil processing and the problem with USD petrodollar greens (and isn’t it ironic that it’s called a “green” movement???) but always come to refocus the blame on the individual’s fault, and the need to reduce “footprints”, meanwhile overly politicizing the movement and therefore dividing the American people on the realities of corruption. If they really want to induce a movement of peace, health, and safety, then educating others on the realities of the corruption of the petrodollar is first and foremost.

I’ve been into the serious harms of oil extraction & processing for a long time, also local pollution from combustion & disposal & leaks/accidents all along the materials economy line.

People should know that CC is not the only problem with oil (&coal).

OTOH, it’s hard to get others, such as gov, to do anything. I think that’s why they focus on what we can do in our daily lives to reduce harms to life on earth.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I’ve been into the serious harms of oil extraction & processing for a long time, also local pollution from combustion & disposal & leaks/accidents all along the materials economy line.

People should know that CC is not the only problem with oil (&coal).

OTOH, it’s hard to get others, such as gov, to do anything. I think that’s why they focus on what we can do in our daily lives to reduce harms to life on earth.

The extraction of fossil fuels is a dirty business. I guess I’m more of an all of the above person on energy policy. I’d like to see more nuclear power plants built and the niche market for alternative energy get going.