Arctic ice melt could trigger uncontrollable climate change at global level

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Even if not accurate, wouldn’t it seem logical to err on the side of caution. But considering the rate of the worldwide glacier melt and retreat that took hundreds if not thousand of years to develop and as being reported by profession climbers all over the world especially climbing Everest, K2, and 8,000meter mountains. The lack of sun reflection and the shortage of glacier streams affecting the entire sub-continent of Asia, it could cause massive migration of hundreds of millions of people in India, Nepal etc.

Furthermore, climate change causing increasing methane gas escaping into the atmosphere which traps100 times more heat in the atmosphere. As reported in the prestigious top science peer review journal in the world.

[http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/12/why-atmospheric-methane-surging-hint-its-not-fracking]("http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/12/why-atmospheric-methane-surging-hint-its-not-fracking"British Columbia, California, Oregon & Washington join forces to combat climate change
http://www.governor.wa.gov/news-media/british-columbia-california-oregon-washington-join-forces-combat-climate-change
 
lynnvinc said:
“Arctic ice melt could trigger uncontrollable climate change at global level” at theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/25/arctic-ice-melt-trigger-uncontrollable-climate-change-global-level?CMP=share_btn_tw

Arctic scientists have warned that the increasingly rapid melting of the ice cap risks triggering 19 “tipping points” in the region that could have catastrophic consequences around the globe.

The Arctic Resilience Report found that the effects of Arctic warming could be felt as far away as the Indian Ocean, in a stark warning that changes in the region could cause uncontrollable climate change at a global level.

Temperatures in the Arctic are currently about 20C above what would be expected for the time of year, which scientists describe as “off the charts”. Sea ice is at the lowest extent ever recorded for the time of year…
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We had 40 million people in the U.S. in 1937.
We have 325 million people in the U.S. in 2016.
That is 8 times growth in about 80 years.

More people means more heat.
More people means more cows that give off heat.
More people means more … just about anything giving off heat.

So we are going to experience global warming.
 
fred_conty said:
We had 40 million people in the U.S. in 1937.
We have 325 million people in the U.S. in 2016.
That is 8 times growth in about 80 years.

More people means more heat.
More people means more cows that give off heat.
More people means more … just about anything giving off heat.

So we are going to experience global warming.
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Interesting hypothesis.

However, I don’t think that actually increases heat (more generally energy) within the earth system, it is merely a transfer of energy from plant and animal food into human calories, heat, and kinetic motion, which then goes back into the earth system – sort of a back and forth or cycle, but no net gain in energy.

However, GHGs in the atmosphere catch energy from infrared (long wave) solar heat radiated back from earth and give it off in all directions – the portion that is re-radiated back to earth from the GHGs causes increased warming in the earth system as GHGs in the atmosphere increase. At least that’s how I understand it.
 
=Abynissa;14439241]Even if not accurate, wouldn’t it seem logical to err on the side of caution.
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If you’re willing to give up your internet access, car, spring break trip to Cancun, cell phone and ipad…that’s erring on the side of caution.
 
SuperLuigi said:
If you’re willing to give up your internet access, car, spring break trip to Cancun, cell phone and ipad…that’s erring on the side of caution.
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There are many many ways to reduce our GHGs without returning to the cave or becoming luddites. We’ve reduced out GHG emissions by over 60% below our 1990 levels AND have saved money, without lowering our living standards. I’d be willing even to sacrifice (as Christians are called to do for others), but so far there hasn’t been a need. We still have much to do to reduce, without lowering our living standard.

People are still smart to find such measures, despite all that pollution (environmental, TV, media electronics) harming their brains. 🙂
 
lynnvinc said:
There are many many ways to reduce our GHGs without returning to the cave or becoming luddites. We’ve reduced out GHG emissions by over 60% below our 1990 levels AND have saved money, without lowering our living standards. I’d be willing even to sacrifice (as Christians are called to do for others), but so far there hasn’t been a need. We still have much to do to reduce, without lowering our living standard.

People are still smart to find such measures, despite all that pollution (environmental, TV, media electronics) harming their brains. 🙂
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60?
You could have reduced by so much more.

Face it.
You are guilty of what you accuse others of.
You simply will not compromise your lifestyle for the further reduction of ghg’s.
 
vz71 said:
60?
You could have reduced by so much more.

Face it.
You are guilty of what you accuse others of.
You simply will not compromise your lifestyle for the further reduction of ghg’s.
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That’s my husband and as a dutiful wife (we married in 1969 before the women’s movement got into full swing) I respect his wishes. He nearly starved to death in India as a child and just did not want to reduce our living standard. Otherwise I’d be willing to do so.

So it’s been somewhat of a challenge, but we did find many things to do to reduce without lowering our living standard.

People who refuse to lower their GHGs, even tho they could do so with no harm to themselves, that’s what’s really unconscionable. Even worse - working like a demon to dissuade others from accepting CC & mitigating.

People have to look at themselves and see what they can do. God is there to help us. I wouldn’t expect 80 year olds to bicycle to shops, altho my husband’s priest uncle in India was still bicycling at age 80 to the nearby town shops some 6 miles away from his village parish.
 
History of global temperature 1880-2016

Take 14 seconds to watch the change in Earth’s surface temperature from 1880 through 2016.

The animation from NOAA shows annual temperatures each year from 1880 – when modern record-keeping began – through record-warm 2016, compared to the twentieth-century average.
 
lynnvinc said:
That’s my husband and as a dutiful wife (we married in 1969 before the women’s movement got into full swing) I respect his wishes. He nearly starved to death in India as a child and just did not want to reduce our living standard. Otherwise I’d be willing to do so.

So it’s been somewhat of a challenge, but we did find many things to do to reduce without lowering our living standard.

People who refuse to lower their GHGs, even tho they could do so with no harm to themselves, that’s what’s really unconscionable. Even worse - working like a demon to dissuade others from accepting CC & mitigating.

People have to look at themselves and see what they can do. God is there to help us. I wouldn’t expect 80 year olds to bicycle to shops, altho my husband’s priest uncle in India was still bicycling at age 80 to the nearby town shops some 6 miles away from his village parish.
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I have watched you write out that all of this is costing lives of future generations.
Even to the point of accusing those that doubt of murder.

Yet you consciously choose not to do everything possible to save these lives.

What does that say about how much you value life?
 
vz71 said:
I have watched you write out that all of this is costing lives of future generations.
Even to the point of accusing those that doubt of murder.

Yet you consciously choose not to do everything possible to save these lives.

What does that say about how much you value life?
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What I meant, is that there is more we could do later, but right now I broke my hand and arm and cannot do some of those things. Okay?

Also, I didn’t even count that we had conscientiously lived within 1 or 2 miles of work since the early 70s – which is also a great idea for reducing GHG emissions and other pollution that harms and kills people – because we did that to conserve resources for future generations so it was already figured into our 1990 GHG emissions level.

Please get over my problems & shortcomings and tell us how YOU and your family reduced your GHG emissions more than 60% below your 1990 level. I think it’s tremendous that you have done so for the sake of the life of the world and for God’s Kingdom. You should get some sort of award for being so much better than us. 🙂
 
lynnvinc said:
What I meant, is that there is more we could do later, but right now I broke my hand and arm and cannot do some of those things. Okay?

Also, I didn’t even count that we had conscientiously lived within 1 or 2 miles of work since the early 70s – which is also a great idea for reducing GHG emissions and other pollution that harms and kills people – because we did that to conserve resources for future generations so it was already figured into our 1990 GHG emissions level.

Please get over my problems & shortcomings and tell us how YOU and your family reduced your GHG emissions more than 60% below your 1990 level. I think it’s tremendous that you have done so for the sake of the life of the world and for God’s Kingdom. You should get some sort of award for being so much better than us. 🙂
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It is not about me.
I have not accused people of murder.

If you really believe in what you have said, 60% is not a laudable thing. You should be pushing yourself into absolute poverty for the sake of these future people whose very lives you hold in your hands.
 
vz71 said:
It is not about me.
I have not accused people of murder.

If you really believe in what you have said, 60% is not a laudable thing. You should be pushing yourself into absolute poverty for the sake of these future people whose very lives you hold in your hands.
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That’s a harsh and totally unfair condemnation, lynnvinc is doing what she believes is prudent while you sit back in an easy chair poking insults.
 
frobert said:
Me too. Heal quickly.
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Thanks to you and Cathoholic for your prayers. I really do need them. I’m not sure what will be the outcome, but the dr told me I will not regain full functionality…which may mean I may not be able to do gardening the way I like to, and perhaps other things. We’ll see.

And I have thought of some things I’m doing & planning to do that require sacrifice, bec Vz71 is right, we should be willing to sacrifice, and altho as a family we are not (bec I do respect my husband’s wishes not to do so), as an individual I can do certain things.

In 1990 I became a vegan for the sake of reducing my GHG emissions and for other good purposes, and also started buying organic to the extent I could.

Since then I’ve slipped back into meat-eating, mainly seafood, which my husband prefers.

So, thanks, Vz71, for prompting. I do plan to get back to a vegan more organic diet in a couple of months after I recover. Meanwhile my husband has reduced his meat-eating (to his health benefit), so my trek of sacrifice in that area may not be too difficult.

Also I was over-weight for many decades, and have gone on a diet these past 2 years, losing 32 pounds. I had wanted to do that for the sake of God’s kingdom, but had not been able to (I think partly because of much stress at work before I retired in 2015), until a dr sternly told me just before my retirement I should lose weight for my health, that women have smaller blood vessels than men and the healthy cholesterol and BP thresholds should not be based on men’s but on much lower thresholds for women.

That was the first time I really felt a dr had been concerned about me. It made me feel that I was a valued person and gave me that extra “umph” to do the needful, what I had wanted to do for the sake of God’s kingdom anyway.

Then about 6 months ago I stopped losing more weight, even tho I could still go down about 10 lbs to get to my ideal healthy weight (for my height, gender, age), and maybe up to 20 lbs, without going underweight.

Again, I will continue that trek of sacrifice after I have well recovered. And I’ll also reinstate the image I had carried around in the 90s in my mind’s eye of severely emaciated African Madonna and Child, starving due to CC-related crop failures and famines. That had really helped me to do all the other things I did to help mitigate CC, along with incessant prayers for God’s help and guidance.

So thank you too, Vz71, for inspiring me to continue my trek of mitigating CC, even to sacrifice.
 
frobert said:
That’s a harsh and totally unfair condemnation, lynnvinc is doing what she believes is prudent while you sit back in an easy chair poking insults.
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I and many others stand accused of murder based solely upon the beliefs of this individual.
It is not unfair to examine how my accuser weilds the weapons.
 
lynnvinc said:
And I have thought of some things I’m doing & planning to do that require sacrifice, bec Vz71 is right, we should be willing to sacrifice, and altho as a family we are not (bec I do respect my husband’s wishes not to do so), as an individual I can do certain things.

So thank you too, Vz71, for inspiring me to continue my trek of mitigating CC, even to sacrifice.
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I am glad you are able to make lemon aide out the Vz71 lemons, but Vz71 could not be more wrong. By his reasoning Pope Francis is not doing nearly enough. Following Vz71’s line of thought putting the Church into poverty for the sake of climate remediation would be right thing to do.

You appear to be doing what is prudent within the restraints you have and unknowingly following the ancient wisdom of the TAO.

Simplify,
Be genuine,
Be selfishness
Temper desire

God Bless.
 
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