Are all prophets sinless?

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

…“ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” .

the human Jesus (p) who did not know when will be the last Day , he is included or excluded in this verse ?

 

[Sabbath_Keeper]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

the human Jesus (p) who did not know when will be the last Day , he is included or excluded in this verse ?

Lady, go back and read my entire post. Or are you devoid of intellectual understanding?

 

[inJESUS]

Do u really think , God sent sinners to teach us about God ?

do you think the sahaba and your religious teachers who preach about Allah are angels appearing like men? who says a sinner cannot preach about God? it is God who makes a man/woman a prophet/prophetess, it is not man’s sinlessness that makes God choose him. Doubting God is a sin for example, yet we read Allah tellling Muhammad:

If** thou wert in doubt **as to what **We **have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. (10:94)

Muhammad is in doubt of what Allah is telling him, this is a sin madam, not a “mistake”. So when Sarah doubted God’s promise and decided to give her husband to another woman, she was in doubt and Abraham fell for it as well and strive and jealousy and a fractured house followed. This was a sin , it wasn’t a mistake, but it doesn’t mean these people were “bad”, it just shows they are humans and have their weaknesses or is doubting Allah, like disobeying him , also a “mistake” in Islam?.

Muhammed (p) was called as Al Amin ( who speaks truth ) since childhood.

and he was called a liar and a forgerer as well by thousands…just don’t be too naive.

He forgave the killers of his daughter , uncle .He forgave others when he had 10 thousands armed soldiers with him . This has been explained several times .

no one says he did nothing good…he forgave and he assasinated and stoned and burned people alive in the desert after plucking out their eyes and gave orders to his followers to tie each of a woman’s legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels and they split her in two …wake up young lady, even Hitler had his “merciful” moments.

Prophets sometimes made mistakes like Adam (p) forgot the command of God ,

yea sure he forgot the only command although satan reminded him of it …

 

[Muslim_Woman]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

do you think the sahaba and your religious teachers who preach about Allah are angels appearing like men?

the thread is about Prophets (pbut) . God chose the persons who were best among their people. It’s illogical to think God’s all chosen persons except Jesus (p) were sinners .

and he was called a liar and a forgerer as well by thousands.

thousands called Jesus (p) liar , so ???

burned people alive in the desert …

I don’t think he burnt alive anyone. He even forbid to burn ants because only God has right to burn sinners in fire.

Yes , Of Couse , he punished some criminals because of sins/ crimes like killing innocent people etc. So ?? If we don’t punish the sinners , it will encourage them to spread the sins in the society like we see gay marriages , gay parades , love child in the west .

 

[inJESUS]

**

the thread is about Prophets (pbut) . God chose the persons who were best among their people. It’s illogical to think God’s all chosen persons except Jesus (p) were sinners .**

 

[Jay53]

Muslim Woman;4781852]** Muslims reject all the dirty allegations Bible has against Prophets (pbut). Hagar (ra ) was his wife ; No Prophet including David (p) committed any adultery**.

Why? ** Why do you believe this?** Is this written down somewhere? That’s what I want to know.

Do u really think , God sent sinners to teach us about God ?

Absolutely, except for Jesus.

Muhammed (p) was called as Al Amin ( who speaks truth ) since childhood.

He forgave the killers of his daughter , uncle .He forgave others when he had 10 thousands armed soldiers with him . This has been explained several times .

Doing some good deeds does not negate the other atrocities he committed. Each sin, unless repented of and forgiven by God, will be judged by God. But, I’m trying to figure out why you and others believe all prophets are sinless.

Prophets sometimes made mistakes like Adam (p) forgot the command of God , Moses (p) accidently killed a man etc . They offered their sincere repentace & God forgave them . Sinners are those who willingly commit sin & don’t ask for forgiveness because of arroagance , pride like Satan , Pharaon etc.

In Islam, what is the difference between a “mistake” and a “sin”. I would agree that “accidentally” killing someone would not be a sin (depending, of course on the circumstances), but what about murder? Muhammad willingly murdered people. This has been documented. Is it also documented that he asked for forgiveness? But, I don’t even want to get into that - whether he asked for forgiveness is between him and God. I would contend that you’re definition of a sinner is wrong in that sinners are those who commit sin. Period. They then remain in a state of sin UNTIL they repent and ask for forgiveness. Maybe I need a list of what is considered a “sin” in Islam and what is considered a “mistake”? In general I always went by the Ten Commandments, but if Muhammad’s murders, Abraham’s and David’s adultery etc are NOT sins, then I don’t know how Muslim’s determine what sin is.

Thank you for your help.

As an aside, can anyone give me any text that supports that John the Baptist was sinless? I have never heard that before and would like some documented source. Feel free to PM me as I don’t wish to go grossly off topic here. Thanks.

 

[R_not]

** In the name of Allah , the Most Gracious , Ever Merciful **

Salaam/ Peace

the thread is about Prophets (pbut) . God chose the persons who were best among their people. It’s illogical to think God’s all chosen persons except Jesus (p) were sinners .

thousands called Jesus (p) liar , so ???

I don’t think he burnt alive anyone. He even forbid to burn ants because only God has right to burn sinners in fire.

Yes , Of Couse , he punished some criminals because of sins/ crimes like killing innocent people etc. So ?? If we don’t punish the sinners , it will encourage them to spread the sins in the society like we see gay marriages , gay parades , love child in the west .

Once again you don’t know your own texts and your own prophet. Your statement ‘I don’t think he burnt alive anyone.’ well, read some hadiths that are from a well known source:

Bukhari:V1B11N626 “The Prophet said, ‘No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr. If they knew the reward they would come to (the mosque) even if they had to crawl. I decided to order a man to lead the prayer and then take a flame to burn all those who had not left their houses for the prayer, burning them alive inside their homes.’”

Ishaq:316 “Following Badr, Muhammad sent a number of raiders with orders to capture some of the Meccans and burn them alive.”

 

[inJESUS]

Muslims do not believe Muhammad commited murder …he was “right” in all the killing he did and commanded.

 

[paarsurrey]

Muslims do not believe Muhammad commited murder …he was “right” in all the killing he did and commanded.

Hi

Just mention one person whom Muhammad killed with a reference from Quran with five preceding and five following verses for the usual context.

I love Jesus

Thanks

 

[Jay53]

Muslims do not believe Muhammad commited murder …he was “right” in all the killing he did and commanded.

Why? How? I honestly don’t get it!!! Some of his murders to spread Islam, OK, I don’t agree with it, but I can see how they can see him as being justified. But, what about the 100 year old guy and the woman who was nursing her baby that he had killed just for 2 examples that I can think of off the top of my head? What possible justification is there for that?!? I don’t get it!

 

[Jay53]

Hi

Just mention one person whom Muhammad killed with a reference from Quran with five preceding and five following verses for the usual context.

I love Jesus

Thanks

Is this supposed to mean that if it’s not in the Quran then it didn’t happen?

 

[paarsurrey]

Why? How? I honestly don’t get it!!! Some of his murders to spread Islam, OK, I don’t agree with it, but I can see how they can see him as being justified. But, what about the 100 year old guy and the woman who was nursing her baby that he had killed just for 2 examples that I can think of off the top of my head? What possible justification is there for that?!? I don’t get it!

Hi

Kindly quote from Quran wher that incident is mentioned. Please remember to provide five verses preceding and five verses following for the usual context.

I love Jesus

Thanks

 

[dianaiad]

Hi

Kindly quote from Quran wher that incident is mentioned. Please remember to provide five verses preceding and five verses following for the usual context.

I love Jesus

Thanks

I have no idea what incidents are being referred to here; I’m just going to ask whether Muslims think that Mohammad actually existed? Are there no histories outside the Quran that give details about his life?

 

[R_not]

For no other reason than they were Jewish did mohammed have people killed. And he told his followers who had good relations with the Jews to turn on them and kill them.

mohammed’s terrorism

The first terrorist incident involves Muhammad’s command to his followers to “kill any Jew that comes under your power”. From Guillaume, op cit, page 369:

“The apostle said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.” Thereupon Muhayyisa b. Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayyisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed him Huwayyisa began to beat him, saying, 'You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?” Muhayyisa answered, “Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.”

This story is also supported in the Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 19, Number 2996:

Narrated Muhayyisah: The Apostle of Allah said: If you gain a victory over the men of Jews, kill them. So Muhayyisah jumped over Shubaybah, a man of the Jewish merchants. He had close relations with them. He then killed him. At that time Huwayyisah (brother of Muhayyisah) had not embraced Islam. He was older than Muhayyisah. When he killed him, Huwayyisah beat him and said: O enemy of Allah, I swear by Allah, you have a good deal of fat in your belly from his property.

This murder was committed upon Muhammad’s command. Note that this Muslim murderer would have killed a family member at the drop of a hat. Muhammad was no better than a bigoted criminal boss, ordering his men to wantonly murder Jewish people. Hitler did this. And, this is what the Serbs did to the Kosovan Muslims. Muhammad’s command to murder Jews puts him in the same category as Milosovic, Hitler, and others who have persecuted Jews throughout history. A quote from an Islamic scholar - Wensinck writes in his, “Muhammad and the Jews of Medina” [2], page 113:

“It is remarkable that tradition attributes Muhammad’s most cruel acts to divine order, namely the siege of Qaynuqa, the murder of Kab, and he attack upon Qurayzah. Allah’s conscience seems to be more elastic than that of his creatures.”…Ibn Ishaq and al-Waqidi report that the prophet said the morning after the murder (of Kab Ashraf), “Kill any Jew you can lay your hands on.”

This incident is also documented in Tabari’s History [3], page 97 of volume 7. This shows that Muhammad had unsuspecting people, those who even had good relations with Muslims, murdered in cold blood because they were Jewish. There was no justification to murder these Jews other than they were not Muhammad’s followers. These actions were the work of Muhammad’s terrorists committing murder.

The 2nd terrorist act was to kill an old man over 100 years old. This is the beginning of how muslims treated critics of mohammed/islam.

Then the poetess who was breastfeeding her baby was assasinated. At the time she criticized mohammed - he could have asked her tribal leaders to shut her up, but instead mohammed chose to have her murdered.

What mohammed did was not a question of ‘is he sinless’, of course he was. What mohammed did was take himself out of any possibility of being a prophet and put himself on the same level as Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and other such types. Basically, the same sort of mentality to kill the opposition which usually meant the leaders and military so one could take over, but in mohammed’s case he killed old men and a woman who were critics. Who did not even say that mohammed should be killed. And in the first case to kill just because one is a Jew. For no other reason than that. And that is after them thinking that they were their friends and/or business associates.

 

[R_not]

I have no idea what incidents are being referred to here; I’m just going to ask whether Muslims think that Mohammad actually existed? Are there no histories outside the Quran that give details about his life?

Too bad we couldn’t get an archeological excavation of his tomb in Medina. He and his daughter, Fatima, are supposedly buried there.

And if his skull remained - one of those computer generated pics where the flesh is modeled back on and also a clay rendition of his face too.

It won’t happen though.

 

[Jay53]

Hi

Kindly quote from Quran wher that incident is mentioned. Please remember to provide five verses preceding and five verses following for the usual context.

I love Jesus

Thanks

Once again, I ask, if it is not in the Quran does that mean it didn’t happen?

 

[inJESUS]

Why? How? I honestly don’t get it!!! Some of his murders to spread Islam, OK, I don’t agree with it, but I can see how they can see him as being justified. But, what about the 100 year old guy and the woman who was nursing her baby that he had killed just for 2 examples that I can think of off the top of my head? What possible justification is there for that?!? I don’t get it!

bro, writing poetry at that time was like breathing. Poetry was so important that peoples’ lives were literally affected by what people wrote about them and writing good poetry was enough to make a poet like a god with people awaiting his next verses . One of the very famous arab poets called Al-Mutanabbi (if not mistaken) fled for his life because of a satire he wrote about someone. Muhammad belonged to the same 7th century Arabian mentality, he was no better. Asma’ bint marwan was a poetess and wrote a satire against him after killing a man of her tribe and encouraged her tribesmen to take action against Muhammad and killing such people (considered dangerous by their ennemies) is a tribal arab sahara mentality so normally Muhammad will ask “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter” as “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, after all it was a display of power.

So she was killed because Muhammad considered her words a threat yet “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, which makes us wonder, if she were so insignificant, why kill her?

 

[Jay53]

bro, writing poetry at that time was like breathing. Poetry was so important that peoples’ lives were literally affected by what people wrote about them and writing good poetry was enough to make a poet like a god with people awaiting his next verses . One of the very famous arab poets called Al-Mutanabbi (if not mistaken) fled for his life because of a satire he wrote about someone. Muhammad belonged to the same 7th century Arabian mentality, he was no better. Asma’ bint marwan was a poetess and wrote a satire against him after killing a man of her tribe and encouraged her tribesmen to take action against Muhammad and killing such people (considered dangerous by their ennemies) is a tribal arab sahara mentality so normally Muhammad will ask “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter” as “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, after all it was a display of power.

So she was killed because Muhammad considered her words a threat yet “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, which makes us wonder, if she were so insignificant, why kill her?

OK. I guess there is a rationalization for each of his killings then? Each victim in some way threatened Muhammad, threatened Islam etc.?

Although I still would like an answer to my OP as to WHY Muslims believe all prophets are sinless. They keep dancing around it. I just want to know if this is some kind of tradition or is it written down somewhere or where did they get this idea?

BTW, I’m a “sis” not a “bro”

 

[inJESUS]

OK. I guess there is a rationalization for each of his killings then? **Each victim in some way threatened Muhammad, threatened Islam **

etc.?exactly .

I just want to know if this is some kind of tradition or is it written down somewhere or where did they get this idea?

 

[R_not]

bro, writing poetry at that time was like breathing. Poetry was so important that peoples’ lives were literally affected by what people wrote about them and writing good poetry was enough to make a poet like a god with people awaiting his next verses . One of the very famous arab poets called Al-Mutanabbi (if not mistaken) fled for his life because of a satire he wrote about someone. Muhammad belonged to the same 7th century Arabian mentality, he was no better. Asma’ bint marwan was a poetess and wrote a satire against him after killing a man of her tribe and encouraged her tribesmen to take action against Muhammad and killing such people (considered dangerous by their ennemies) is a tribal arab sahara mentality so normally Muhammad will ask “Who will rid me of Marwan’s daughter” as “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, after all it was a display of power.

So she was killed because Muhammad considered her words a threat yet “Two goats won’t butt their heads about her”, which makes us wonder, if she were so insignificant, why kill her?

He could have shut them up by telling their elders of their tribes to have them shut up. What he did was take an extreme measure to shut down the opposition, and set a tone for his followers to emulate and they do to this day.